Virgin Guard Assaulted

[Flamingo]

I love how everyone is assuming this was a drunkard or 'dreg of society' type or something, and the VT guard wasn't trying to ching him for a £100several at the time. Don't see we have much to go on one way or the other.

Punching someone is always wrong though.

Looks like the assumption the perpetrator was a scumbag was the correct one...

 

[VauxhallandI]

This guy turns up an interesting Google search...

It's an embarrasment to live in the same world as these kind of people.

He looks like an absolute loser.

I'm glad he has gone to prison but I imagine it might be off the back of so many other transgressions.

I'm afraid to say had it been his first offence then he may have walked free. All assumptions I know.

 

[TheEdge]

Looks like the assumption the perpetrator was a scumbag was the correct one...

But the guard was probably trying to sell him a ticket!

And so the circle of life on RUK continues...

 

[Starmill]

Looks like the assumption the perpetrator was a scumbag was the correct one...

Getting away with an assumption doesn't prove it's worth... what do you want me to say?

People who mistreat staff like this apparently being taught a lesson is a nice change though by the looks of it.

It's a shame that people like that exist.

 

[scotsman]

This guy was a serial racial offender. I'm not one to call for harsh sentences, but 16 months is pretty pointless here - he'll gain nothing and be back in a week. He has a record of abuse against anyone who isn't white, he needs time to understand the world.

 

[Merseysider]

This guy was a serial racial offender. I'm not one to call for harsh sentences, but 16 months is pretty pointless here - he'll gain nothing and be back in a week. He has a record of abuse against anyone who isn't white, he needs time to understand the world.

Completely agree. Aside from the fact he'll probably get released early, it's no deterrent to spend a year and a bit behind bars for a fifth offence that may have left the victim psychologically scarred.

How long before he's back committing murder instead of assault?

 

[jon0844]

I guess we'll find out. There's a local lad that was talking to a mate on a bus about how much better it was inside. I suspect he won't be too worried about going back, thus there's little incentive for these people to learn from their mistakes.

 

[scotsman]

I guess we'll find out. There's a local lad that was talking to a mate on a bus about how much better it was inside. I suspect he won't be too worried about going back, thus there's little incentive for these people to learn from their mistakes.

I think that's more telling about their lives, than life inside prison. I once had the pleasure of a tour of a prison - it's not cushy.

Not unless 3 meals a day, and crapping in front of your cellmate is cushy. As for TV, they have to pay for it!

 

[Merseysider]

I think that's more telling about their lives, than life inside prison. I once had the pleasure of a tour of a prison - it's not cushy.

Not unless 3 meals a day, and crapping in front of your cellmate is cushy. As for TV, they have to pay for it!

That's three meals a day they don't have to pay for though, plus prison is guaranteed shelter, ie a free home for a year or however long. You can see why some half-lifes would rather be on the inside - it's where they're most comfortable.

 

[jon0844]

Exactly. If you don't have it great on the outside, it must be far safer and comfortable in a controlled environment. He's hardly unique either as there are many interviews with people saying much the same.

 

[backontrack]

Hardly important I know, but surely it would be easier for Glasgow passengers to change at Edinburgh?

But yes, he deserves to be behind bars. Passengers could've been more co-operative.

 

[455driver]

Hardly important I know, but surely it would be easier for Glasgow passengers to change at Edinburgh?

But yes, he deserves to be behind bars. Passengers could've been more co-operative.

No chance of that happening in this me me me society, some of them probably complained because the train was cancelled after the guard was assaulted! :roll:

 

[backontrack]

No chance of that happening in this me me me society, some of them probably complained because the train was cancelled after the guard was assaulted! :roll:

I'm aware of that; you know what I mean.

 

[HowardGWR]

Having read about this incident and the list of violent offences previous to it, we had a discussion home here about how this would have run in the 1950s. We are in a different world now, where even a policeman, alone, would think twice about tackling this man, let alone the poor conductor, let alone the fellow passengers. 60 years ago, the chances of this individual getting away with such behaviour would be nil. One of the reasons it would be nil, is because he would have still been in jail for one of the previous offenses, so he would not have been 'out'. We may have our gadgets and so on to film incidents today, but you would be nuts to attract the attention of someone who could be carrying a knife and who would not hesitate to use it.

So I don't blame the fellow pax at all. You could even end up being prosecuted yourself.

 

[graham43404]

Hardly important I know, but surely it would be easier for Glasgow passengers to change at Edinburgh?

But yes, he deserves to be behind bars. Passengers could've been more co-operative.

The advice given on the day at Oxenholme was to get on the First TPE Edinburgh service that was awaiting the cancelled Virgin Service to leave and vacate the platform, then to change trains at Carlisle for the First TPE service that ran about an hour or so after the Virgin one.

Off the top of my head I think that advice was right as the Edinburgh service was running 30mins or so late due to what had happened, but the First TPE Glasgow service was running on time.

On to the subject of the idiot who attacked a man doing his job, I wish they could have thrown him in jail for double what he has got. But as the news report states the judge had his hands tied somewhat on that one.

 

[Tibbs]

Having read about this incident and the list of violent offences previous to it, we had a discussion home here about how this would have run in the 1950s. We are in a different world now, where even a policeman, alone, would think twice about tackling this man, let alone the poor conductor, let alone the fellow passengers. 60 years ago, the chances of this individual getting away with such behaviour would be nil. One of the reasons it would be nil, is because he would have still been in jail for one of the previous offenses, so he would not have been 'out'. We may have our gadgets and so on to film incidents today, but you would be nuts to attract the attention of someone who could be carrying a knife and who would not hesitate to use it.

So I don't blame the fellow pax at all. You could even end up being prosecuted yourself.

Had this happened in the 1950s, he'd have just been done for assualt.

The extra for the racial element? I doubt would have been mentioned. 'No Blacks, Irish or Dogs' was apparently a fairly common sign in those days.

 

[GarethJohn]

Had this happened in the 1950s, he'd have just been done for assualt.

The extra for the racial element? I doubt would have been mentioned. 'No Blacks, Irish or Dogs' was apparently a fairly common sign in those days.

Would someone from an Ethnic minority have even bothered to make a complaint then?

 

[Tibbs]

Would someone from an Ethnic minority have even bothered to make a complaint then?

Entirely possible - whilst people with rose tinted spectacles look upon the 50s & 60s as a golden era, it really wasn't for an awful lot of people.

Racism particularly was an issue - it was just there, and accepted. Most of my friends had a 'racist nan' who had, by modern standards, truly awful views on race, but back in her youth, would have been relatively normal. Even my nana, who is lovely, still refers to people as 'darkies' which isn't acceptable now.

Yewtree is another great example. It makes people think there's a paedo lurking around every corner, when in reality most of the stuff being prosecuted is from the 60s & 70s. The perception of crime was lower back then, because people were told not to mention it, or weren't taken seriously, but that doesn't mean actual crime was much different.

 

[GarethJohn]

Entirely possible - whilst people with rose tinted spectacles look upon the 50s & 60s as a golden era, it really wasn't for an awful lot of people.

Racism particularly was an issue - it was just there, and accepted. Most of my friends had a 'racist nan' who had, by modern standards, truly awful views on race, but back in her youth, would have been relatively normal. Even my nana, who is lovely, still refers to people as 'darkies' which isn't acceptable now.

Yewtree is another great example. It makes people think there's a paedo lurking around every corner, when in reality most of the stuff being prosecuted is from the 60s & 70s. The perception of crime was lower back then, because people were told not to mention it, or weren't taken seriously, but that doesn't mean actual crime was much different.

A Child complaining about a dirty old man or someone touching them would have had trouble being believed back then which is why Jimmy Saville and co were so confident that they would get away with it and didn't even think that what they did was wrong. Was fondling a child even seen as a nasty and evil crime that we see it is today? So good the good old days were ?? . Even in the 80's and 90's I can recall a Teacher who was well known for ''dropping'' his Pen's and Pencil's during lesson time. It was just brushed off as nothing serious, today he would be vilified and never work again.
Even the sentences today make Child Abuse look like a minor offence.
What system can give someone a couple of months for the sexual assault or abuse of a child. While sentence's for fraudulent Insurance claimants can be 7 years.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Put it this way - both times I was physically assaulted as an off duty BR staff member - was in assisting a member of staff (a guard), in both cases the assilant was arrested and dealt with well by local police and BT. In once case - on Great Western - there was a racial element in that the guard was a hard working and diligent Sikh. Pleased to have been of some help in getting this person properly dealt with.

Non physical assults - but helping staff out are even more - I once had a death threat for assisting a barrier staff member for doing his job. We both had taxis home afterwards to make sure. Some members of the public can be very trying....

 

[swj99]

................
The fact he's been behind bars before for similar offences and yet is free to repeat them shows a failure in our justice system.

I think any society that fails to protect itself from people like this is in danger of falling apart at the seams.

As far as I'm concerned, it isn't about punishment, and I wouldn't care if people thought prison was easy, as long as the really dangerous ones were kept off the streets for long enough to actually make society safer.

 

[jon0844]

That's one of the biggest benefits of putting them inside. When they're inside, they're not outside and causing more problems (even if not serious crimes, just the anti-social stuff that still makes people feel unsafe or uncomfortable).

 

[scotsman]

A Child complaining about a dirty old man or someone touching them would have had trouble being believed back then which is why Jimmy Saville and co were so confident that they would get away with it and didn't even think that what they did was wrong. Was fondling a child even seen as a nasty and evil crime that we see it is today? So good the good old days were ?? . Even in the 80's and 90's I can recall a Teacher who was well known for ''dropping'' his Pen's and Pencil's during lesson time. It was just brushed off as nothing serious, today he would be vilified and never work again.
Even the sentences today make Child Abuse look like a minor offence.
What system can give someone a couple of months for the sexual assault or abuse of a child. While sentence's for fraudulent Insurance claimants can be 7 years.

You really need to talk to someone about that teacher, it might just be the tip of the iceberg. 0800 555 111, please.

 

[rdeez]

That sentence is just a joke, considering his already comprehensive criminal background.

My sister was convicted for money laundering because her husband conned her into opening bank accounts in her name that he could transfer his business profits into. Profits that it turned out that were not entirely legitimate. Stupid, but she trusted him and didn't think he'd ever do anything dodgy.

She got three years for that. She'll have to declare that conviction for life, it'll never be spent. Seems the law considers repeated assaults to be less serious.

On a side note, she served part of her time in a federal prison in the USA, and commented that prisons here are like hotels by comparison - heating and lack of cockroaches being one of the differences. I'm not suggesting unsanitary conditions and letting prisoners freeze are good ideas, but if prison was a bit less cushy, maybe people like this idiot would think twice...

 

[graham43404]

Just to add to this. One of my friends at work is an ex TPE/Virgin employee who is very good friends with the guard who was assaulted.

The guard had to spend 4 days in hospital and suffered internal bleeding as well as a slight bleed on the brain. Basically he was lucky, if you can really say that, that he did not suffer a worse outcome. This piece of human trash really laid into him and left him unconscious on the platform.

He is back at work now in a return to work programme as he wants to get back doing the job he loves as soon as he can.

 

[Tibbs]

That sentence is just a joke, considering his already comprehensive criminal background.



My sister was convicted for money laundering because her husband conned her into opening bank accounts in her name that he could transfer his business profits into. Profits that it turned out that were not entirely legitimate. Stupid, but she trusted him and didn't think he'd ever do anything dodgy.



She got three years for that. She'll have to declare that conviction for life, it'll never be spent. Seems the law considers repeated assaults to be less serious.



On a side note, she served part of her time in a federal prison in the USA, and commented that prisons here are like hotels by comparison - heating and lack of cockroaches being one of the differences. I'm not suggesting unsanitary conditions and letting prisoners freeze are good ideas, but if prison was a bit less cushy, maybe people like this idiot would think twice...

If crappy prison conditions really prevented reoffending, America would have a tiny prison population, but they don't, it's the highest in the world, by capita.

Places that concentrate on rehabilitation have lower reoffending rates. A shocking number of prisoners have no education, and significant number also have severe mental problems. Locking them up doesn't fix either of those issues.

Someone with impulse control problems isn't going to think 'wow, prison was crappy, better not punch that person who is annoying me' they're just going to do it.

http://www.quora.com/What-is-it-like-to-be-a-geek-in-a-prison

Is a very interesting page - the second response down is related to uk prisons.

There are a few people who need to be locked away forever, but most people can be useful members of society. I realise that this doesn't fit with the vengeance theme that is often trotted out when talking about justice, but if we want people not to repeat what they did, just locking them up won't help.

 

[bnm]

She got three years for that. She'll have to declare that conviction for life, it'll never be spent. Seems the law considers repeated assaults to be less serious.

There have been changes to the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (ROA), coming into force in March 2014. The changes were retrospective, so anyone convicted prior to March 2014 will also be subject to the new rules regarding periods of rehabilitation.

Someone given a sentence of more than 6 months but less than 4 years now has a rehabilitation period of the sentence plus 7 years, so in your sister's case, with a 3 year sentence, that's 10 years from date of conviction. If she was convicted more than 10 years ago her conviction is now spent and no longer has to be declared. If less than 10 years ago then she still has to declare, but, with it being a sentence of less than 4 years, it will become spent at some point. Previous to March 2014, as you are no doubt aware with your sister's case, a sentence over 2½ years (30 months) was never spent.

There are certain professions where applying for a job in them is exempt from the ROA. These are professions which are permitted to carry out Standard or Enhanced DBS (Disclosure and Barring Service, formerly Criminal Records Bureau) checks.

Also important to remember that it's not just about applying for jobs. Insurance cover is hard to find and nearly always adversely affected by unspent convictions. 10 years from the date of your sister's conviction she no longer has to tell insurance companies about that conviction. If an existing insurer knows about the conviction and a premium is being paid because of that, then it's worth trying to renegotiate cover once the conviction becomes spent. Or go to a different insurer who won't need to know about the spent conviction. I, being subject to the ROA until 2013, did just this. I got my home contents premium with my existing insurer reduced by 30%. This year I switched insurers and reduced the premium by around another 10%.

In all cases no matter how the question is asked, if a conviction is spent it is spent. If an employer or insurance company just asks, "Do you have any convictions?" or, "Do you have any spent convictions?" you can say, "No." This is referred to as a 'legal lie'.

 

[rdeez]

Tibbs, you raise some good points there. And I was surprised to read that fact about the prison population in the USA. Rehabilitation is important and indeed my sister was very well supported in terms of rebuilding a career on her release, having been a housewife for several years prior to conviction.

 

[455driver]

Tibbs, you raise some good points there. And I was surprised to read that fact about the prison population in the USA. Rehabilitation is important and indeed my sister was very well supported in terms of rebuilding a career on her release, having been a housewife for several years prior to conviction.

Euthanasia for serial offenders, its a win win for everybody (except the low life scummer of course).

Okay its the death penalty by another name but it gets my vote.

 

[GarethJohn]

You really need to talk to someone about that teacher, it might just be the tip of the iceberg. 0800 555 111, please.

He's dead.