Virgin Pendolino, Coach E

[liamwli]

First of all, hi - I'm new here, so apologies if this is in the incorrect place.

Secondly, am I correct in thinking that on Virgin Pendolino trains, coach E is the 'unreserved' coach?

The reason I ask, is because we have reservations in Coach E for tomorrow... Does this indicate the train will be horribly packed?

I've attached a screenshot of the reservations...

Thanks, and hi again!
Liam

 

[user15681]

Coach E is unreserved on 9-car Pendolinos (390/0)
Coach F and U are unreserved on 11-car Pendolinos (390/1) - hence, E is reserved on these.

 

[CallySleeper]

Should be an 11-car pendo, but even so I see your seats are reserved quite sporadically in that coach?

 

[Dreadnought]

Coach E is unreserved on 9-car Pendolinos (390/0)
Coach F and U are unreserved on 11-car Pendolinos (390/1) - hence, E is reserved on these.

Not completely true as I've been on 9 car pendolinos with reservations in Coach E. Presumably these services would normally be planned for 11 car ones but a 9 car has run on it instead.

 

[user15681]

Not completely true as I've been on 9 car pendolinos with reservations in Coach E. Presumably these services would normally be planned for 11 car ones but a 9 car has run on it instead.

I was referring to when sets are working their booked diagrams. But yes, it does sometimes happen when a 9 car runs a service planned for 11 cars as you say, and as a result E has reservations.

 

[RailwayLion]

In the first couple of moths of 2015, I have found that on 80% of the occasions when the service should have ahd an 11-car set, it only had a 9-car set ... AND that Virgin had allocated reservations in Coach E.
So either
a) Virgin are hopelessly incapable of getting the right stock to the right place at the right time; or
b) Virgin are deliberately engineering the situation - for example, to create the impression of over-subscribed trains.
£1.5Bn was spent on extending these Pendolinos but the result has been a worsening of the situation for many passengers, since a substantial proportion of services are 9-car sets when they should be 11-car sets, and Virgin's insistence on allocating reservation in Coach E, even when they cannot guarantee an 11-car set, invariably means that there is NO unreserved coach on many services.

 

[gottago]

I was on a train to Liverpool Lime St from Euston and was kicked out of my seat in coach E which has never happened before! I ended up going to coach F which I don't think there usually are on Liverpool services. Presumably it was a 9 car so less first class than usual?

 

[cool110]

I was on a train to Liverpool Lime St from Euston and was kicked out of my seat in coach E which has never happened before! I ended up going to coach F which I don't think there usually are on Liverpool services. Presumably it was a 9 car so less first class than usual?

No, coach F (and U) only exist on the 11 car sets.

 

[CallySleeper]

In the first couple of moths of 2015, I have found that on 80% of the occasions when the service should have ahd an 11-car set, it only had a 9-car set ... AND that Virgin had allocated reservations in Coach E.
So either

c) your trains which were 11-car sets prior to the last timetable change 14th December 2014 are now 9-car sets.

Some examples of specific services you've had problems with might help us.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

In the first couple of moths of 2015, I have found that on 80% of the occasions when the service should have ahd an 11-car set, it only had a 9-car set ... AND that Virgin had allocated reservations in Coach E.
So either
a) Virgin are hopelessly incapable of getting the right stock to the right place at the right time; or
b) Virgin are deliberately engineering the situation - for example, to create the impression of over-subscribed trains.
£1.5Bn was spent on extending these Pendolinos but the result has been a worsening of the situation for many passengers, since a substantial proportion of services are 9-car sets when they should be 11-car sets, and Virgin's insistence on allocating reservation in Coach E, even when they cannot guarantee an 11-car set, invariably means that there is NO unreserved coach on many services.

Or perhaps units were 'stepped up' to get trains running to time when some form of disruption occurs (which could be vandalism or signal failure for all we know), rather than waiting for the correct train to arrive and having passengers delayed because of it.

 

[gottago]

No, coach F (and U) only exist on the 11 car sets.

I thought Lime Street could only accommodate 9 car trains?

 

[fowler9]

I thought Lime Street could only accommodate 9 car trains?

Nope, I've been on 2 11 car sets last week alone. To my eyes at least they seem to use the 9 and 11 car sets completely randomly at least in to Liverpool.

 

[jopsuk]

not extending the entire fleet to 11 was short sighted and tight fisted...

 

[najaB]

not extending the entire fleet to 11 was short sighted and tight fisted...

Would 11 carriage trains be able to call at all stations?

 

[fowler9]

Would 11 carriage trains be able to call at all stations?

I would guess so since they randomly seem to drop on whatever service. I am sure someone with more detailed knowledge than I can confirm that. Speaking for ime Street an 11 car Pendolino doesn't seem to me to stretch any further down the platform than some of the old rakes of locos and coaches did.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Would 11 carriage trains be able to call at all stations?

Don't they have SDO? I think the places it needs to be used currently is something like Rugby p6, Coventry p4, Wilmslow p2 (?), and Haymarket: there's a list of them in the guard's office. I can't think of a terminus VT serve that wouldn't be able to fit them properly.

 

[najaB]

Don't they have SDO?

That was what I was wondering.

 

[driver_m]

There are restrictions to what platforms an 11 car can't go in. I'll not list them all but as an example you have 6 & 9 at Lime St. 18 at Euston. As for routes they wouldn't go down the North Wales line. Only a 9 car can go down there. The SDO will work on a couple of Haymarket platforms, 4 at Cov, 6 at Rugby and the up styal platform at Wilmslow.

When the 9 cars go in to change coach G into a standard class coach, that will become coach F.

 

[CheapAndNerdy]

Ah, this thread seems as good as any to mention my "issues" travelling on VT over Christmas and the New Year.

Travelling up from Euston to Wigan, the train was 9-car, but coach E had reservations, which I didn't know about (because the data hadn't been loaded into the system) until I was asked to move. Fortunately the next seat I chose remained available once the data was loaded.

On my return journey from Wigan in the new year, the platform announcements were for 11 coaches, but only 9 turned up.

There, I feel much better now.

 

[RichW1]

I just came home from a return trip to Birmingham New Street and the toilets on both journeys on all the coaches I walked through smelled! What an awful experience. I love the look of the Pendolinos from the outside but inside, not a pleasant travel experience and as a result, I shall go by car even thought it's longer and more stressful but it's better than smelling toilets and being crammed in (both services in the middle of the morning and middle of the afternoon were packed full).

 

[SaveECRewards]

I just came home from a return trip to Birmingham New Street and the toilets on both journeys on all the coaches I walked through smelled! What an awful experience. I love the look of the Pendolinos from the outside but inside, not a pleasant travel experience and as a result, I shall go by car even thought it's longer and more stressful but it's better than smelling toilets and being crammed in (both services in the middle of the morning and middle of the afternoon were packed full).

Oddly enough I've only noticed the toilet smell when travelling standard class and not in first. I'm not a fan of the Pendos in standard (narrow seats, poor luggage space, windowless 'window' seats, etc) but my first class trips have been fine (apart from the weekend trip where I had to walk to the shop to get an awful snack box).. So now I avoid standard class and weekends when travelling on the west coast, there's always alternative means to get there.

I'm wondering why IEP was only designed with 9 carriages, I'm sure some East Coast services could do with 10 or 11 carriages. I hope the 5 car variant never makes the ECML.

 

[najaB]

I'm wondering why IEP was only designed with 9 carriages, I'm sure some East Coast services could do with 10 or 11 carriages. I hope the 5 car variant never makes the ECML.

They are 9x26m carriages so while they have fewer carriages than a 390 they will carry a similar number of passengers (I make it about 30 or so more in favour of the IEP but it depends on the final layouts that are chosen).

 

[Hellfire]

In the first couple of moths of 2015, I have found that on 80% of the occasions when the service should have ahd an 11-car set, it only had a 9-car set ... AND that Virgin had allocated reservations in Coach E.
So either
a) Virgin are hopelessly incapable of getting the right stock to the right place at the right time; or
b) Virgin are deliberately engineering the situation - for example, to create the impression of over-subscribed trains.
£1.5Bn was spent on extending these Pendolinos but the result has been a worsening of the situation for many passengers, since a substantial proportion of services are 9-car sets when they should be 11-car sets, and Virgin's insistence on allocating reservation in Coach E, even when they cannot guarantee an 11-car set, invariably means that there is NO unreserved coach on many services.

So, what evidence do you have that VT are "deliberately engineering the situation"? How do you know there wasn't a breakdown and VT just decided it was better to run a 9 car set than nothing at all? If there had been no train at all you would have had something to complain about.

No TOC can "guarantee" a particular set will always run the same diagram because no TOC has complete control over everything that can disrupt a service. In my experience VT are one of the best TOCs at sorting out problems caused by things like late running.

 

[RailwayLion]

No TOC can "guarantee" a particular set will always run the same diagram because no TOC has complete control over everything that can disrupt a service.

I fully accept that no TOC can guarantee a particular set. My point is that since substitution of 9-car sets for 11-car sets is happening so frequently, VT should not allocate reserved seats in Coach E.

 

[CallySleeper]

My point is that since substitution of 9-car sets for 11-car sets is happening so frequently

How do you know this is happening.

This would also be an opportune time to respond to the request in my earlier post.

 

[Hellfire]

I fully accept that no TOC can guarantee a particular set. My point is that since substitution of 9-car sets for 11-car sets is happening so frequently, VT should not allocate reserved seats in Coach E.

Can you enlighten us with a definition of "frequently"? I travel on VT every week and the number of times the normally 11 coach train I always catch is substituted with a 9 car train can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

And, given that people can reserve seats months in advance of travel, how does VT know that it might, due to circumstances outside its control, have to switch sets at short notice.

 

[RailwayLion]

Can you enlighten us with a definition of "frequently"? I travel on VT every week and the number of times the normally 11 coach train I always catch is substituted with a 9 car train can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

5 times in the last four weeks, at various times of day.
I wish that I could be sure, in advance, of the time at which I will be travelling, so that I could book a seat in advance.
On a different point, I note a substantial proportion of "reserved" seats - perhaps 20% - actually end up being unoccupied - but it is impossible to know that when you get on the train.

And, given that people can reserve seats months in advance of travel, how does VT know that it might, due to circumstances outside its control, have to switch sets at short notice.

Given frequency with which switching of sets has occurred recently - at least in my experience - I merely propose that VT do not allocate reservations in Coach E, even on services that are nominally supposed to be 11-car sets. There are still coaches A, B, C, D in which they can allocate reservations.

 

[khib70]

Travelled from Wigan to Edinburgh on Sunday on an 11 coach Pendolino with a group of friends, all on advances, and therefore all with reservations. Due to a previous possession between Preston and Lancaster, the train pulled into Wigan full and standing and all our reserved seats were occupied. Some of us managed to evict the intruders but others couldn't physically move, the train was so full.

At Preston, even more got on, and the situation didn't ease up till Carlisle. The tilt had to be turned off due to the overcrowding, which delayed the train further, coupled with longer dwell times.

The train manager played a blinder finding seats for people, and upgrading some who couldn't get to their seats to First. (Although I don't know how they managed to get there)

The cause of the reserved seat problem was the dreaded electronic reservation display, which simply displayed "reserved" all the way from Euston, with no indication of where the reservations were from or to. This is a recipe for chaos, for which Virgin are actually responsible, although I wouldn't blame them for the overcrowding. They did deploy their longest set, and their TM worked his backside off trying to help.

 

[Hellfire]

The cause of the reserved seat problem was the dreaded electronic reservation display, which simply displayed "reserved" all the way from Euston, with no indication of where the reservations were from or to. This is a recipe for chaos, for which Virgin are actually responsible.

Ah yes, the dreaded electronic seat reservation system. I can see why they use it. The alternative is to have someone walking down the train at every turn round, taking out the old reservation cards and putting in new ones.

Sometimes the new data has failed to download at all and you leave Euston with every seat showing 'available' which causes some confusion.

On the other hand, no one can pinch the car from the seat and pretend it wasn't there.