Virgin Trains at Northampton

[TurboFintan]

I've been looking at old Virgin Trains maps, and the stop at Northampton has interested me, as it is very lightly served compared to the other VT stations from Euston to Rugby for Virgin Trains. So I was curious about the Northampton stop and I have a couple of questions about this:

- When did they stop calling there on a regular basis (if it had one)?
- Which services went via Northampton?
- What was the frequency like (did it increase during peak times)?

Thanks in advance.

 

[30907]

Off hand, there was a regular Northampton-London (possibly 2?) in the morning peak, using marginal time of mainline sets, which I think preceded privatisation.
There was for a short period a London-Northampton-Crewe and return or similar - again using marginal time. I remember this being talked about in BR days, but don't remember the detail or the actual years.

 

[Ianno87]

Yes, in the September 2004 timetable (until Dec 2008) there was an inter-peak return trip from Euston to Manchester and back using a 390 via Northampton, the Trent Valley stations and Crewe. Pretty slow end to end (over 3 hours IIRC) but provided a useful middle of day direct connection for some stations (in days before the current hourly LM Euston-Trent Valley-Crewe service)

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Used to have a slow Manchester to Euston that ran via Northampton in the mid-afternoon during the week, that ended with VHF in December 2008. There may have been a similar service northbound (not that I recall it if it did exist), but aside from those I can only ever remember it being the current very early morning / very late evening as now.

 

[Ianno87]

Used to have a slow Manchester to Euston that ran via Northampton in the mid-afternoon during the week, that ended with VHF in December 2008. There may have been a similar service northbound (not that I recall it if it did exist), but aside from those I can only ever remember it being the current very early morning / very late evening as now.

Yes, think it was 09-something off Euston, 1245ish back from Piccadilly. Nice use of an otherwise spare peak seat.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Yes, think it was 09-something off Euston, 1245ish back from Piccadilly. Nice use of an otherwise spare peak seat.

I found this - https://web.archive.org/web/2006011...g/timetables/200512/VT7 London-Manchester.pdf

It was:
0938 Euston - Manchester (1255), calling at Northampton (1026), Rugby, Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield, Crewe, Wilmslow and Stockport
1405 Manchester - Euston (1721), calling as per the inbound service plus Milton Keynes; with Northampton (1615)

 

[Mag_seven]

There was a similar service in BR loco hauled days - I remember travelling on a northbound mid-morning Manchester service in the early eighties that was booked to and did call at Northampton.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Ooah, that's a shame. I saw the first chunk of the thread title at thought someone had seen a Pendo at Northam depot!

 

[TurboFintan]

Many thanks for the replies, interesting to know the Trent Valley stations were also lightly served for trains to and from London. There was a loco-hauled set (wasn't there two?) that ran between Northampton and London in the morning and return in the evening that used VT Mk3's but was a Silverlink service.

 

[70014IronDuke]

There was a similar service in BR loco hauled days - I remember travelling on a northbound mid-morning Manchester service in the early eighties that was booked to and did call at Northampton.

Like 30907, I remember there was a Euston - Crewe Service. This was around 1983 or 84. Of course, it may have changed to Manchester in some years.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Many thanks for the replies, interesting to know the Trent Valley stations were also lightly served for trains to and from London. There was a loco-hauled set (wasn't there two?) that ran between Northampton and London in the morning and return in the evening that used VT Mk3's but was a Silverlink service.

Even BR didn't really care about the Trent Valley stations (Nuneaton excepted, if you count that as 'Trent' V). The service was almost non-existent outside a couple of peak hour stops (and the 06-30ish ex Euston) until the new LM began their hourly trains. That was a revolution for the line's intermediate stations.

Interesting, I don't know what the Northampton service was like pre electrification in terms of inter-city trains. I remember being at Northampton Castle (as was) one evening in steam days, it was 1960 or 61, around 17.30 I'd guess it was, and two up trains came in behind one another. One was hauled by 45722 Defence, which was a Rugby loco I think, so this was probably some kind of Euston semi-fast. The other had unrebuilt Patriot 45541 Duke of Sutherland (first time I'd seen a parallel boiler Pat). Perhaps this was a diversion off the main line, but it stopped for passengers. Northampton seemed terribly busy for those 20 mnutes or so!

 

[TurboFintan]

Even BR didn't really care about the Trent Valley stations (Nuneaton excepted, if you count that as 'Trent' V). The service was almost non-existent outside a couple of peak hour stops (and the 06-30ish ex Euston) until the new LM began their hourly trains. That was a revolution for the line's intermediate stations.

Interesting, I don't know what the Northampton service was like pre electrification in terms of inter-city trains. I remember being at Northampton Castle (as was) one evening in steam days, it was 1960 or 61, around 17.30 I'd guess it was, and two up trains came in behind one another. One was hauled by 45722 Defence, which was a Rugby loco I think, so this was probably some kind of Euston semi-fast. The other had unrebuilt Patriot 45541 Duke of Sutherland (first time I'd seen a parallel boiler Pat). Perhaps this was a diversion off the main line, but it stopped for passengers. Northampton seemed terribly busy for those 20 mnutes or so!

This might help: http://timetableworld.com/image_viewer.php?id=2&section_id=28 (You will need to click on forward or reverse direction to see the timetable)

It's the BR London Midland region timetable from Sept 1962 to June 1963. From a glance, there seems to be more inter-city trains calling at Northampton than in the past ten or so years from now.

 

[westcoaster]

There used to be two early morning services coming from iirc rugby, the ones mentioned above, and also a very late evening 2340 ish northbound train.

 

[TurboFintan]

There used to be two early morning services coming from iirc rugby, the ones mentioned above, and also a very late evening 2340 ish northbound train.

The current 05:45 Birmingham New Street to London Euston via Northampton used to start from Rugby but has now been extended to start from Birmingham. I recall seeing this train as a pair of super voyagers and at Euston, they would split with one going to Birmingham and the other to Holyhead.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

They’re lucky they’re served by Virgin even once! My local stations are all boring old SWR!

 

[DerekC]

They’re lucky they’re served by Virgin even once! My local stations are all boring old SWR!

Well, you do get a few Southerns and a couple of XC services per day for a bit of variety.

 

[Taunton]

Quite likely an Orcats Raid on the substantial Northampton to Euston revenue.

The Trent Valley stations did have a few main line services in BR days. A Sunday evening Liverpool to Euston service used to stop at Lichfield Trent Valley, and used to pick up a good number there, maybe 50 or more, for whom it was the only service. Unfortunately, at busy times it could be all seats taken when it got there, and nobody from Lichfield at all could get a seat.

When the WCML was first electrified in 1966 there was a regular 2-hourly stopping service from Stafford to Rugby, by a 4-car 304 emu (two were required) which apparently carried almost entirely fresh air for many years until given up.

 

[AlterEgo]

Quite likely an Orcats Raid on the substantial Northampton to Euston revenue.

Do you mean the once-daily Virgin service here? That call at Northampton is a franchise requirement, I think.

 

[AlterEgo]

Do you mean the once-daily Virgin service here? That call at Northampton is a franchise requirement, I think.

I meant twice daily of course.

Yes it is a franchise requirement:

2.8 Four additional services shall operate from Birmingham New Street to London Euston between the Late Service and 2330. Three of these services shall originate from or call at Wolverhampton (including one originating from Edinburgh and provided by a service in Route F), and the fourth service shall call at Northampton.
2.9 Between 0600 and 0630, one additional service shall be provided from Rugby to London Euston, calling at Northampton.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...gin-west-coast-service-level-commitment-4.pdf

 

[Bevan Price]

Northampton was one of the "losers" at the start of WCML electrification. From March 1967, it was served by hourly Euston - Northampton - Rugby semi-fast services, extended (mostly) every 2 hours to Birmingham. Northbound, the only "inter-city" type of trains were an overnight sleeper, and an 00:18 Euston - Crewe semi-fast .

And Trent Valley stations did not fare much better, e.g. Lichfield had 8 northbound trains per day (SX), only one being what we would now class as "Inter-City standard (19:05 Euston - Blackpool South.); and by 1979, Lichfield was down to 6 northbound trains per day.

The LM hourly Trent Valley hourly trains have clearly shown that if a decent service is provided, people will use it - although it may take several years to build up traffic.. And the now much more frequent services via Northampton can be very busy, even off-peak.

 

[Taunton]

Northampton was one of the "losers" at the start of WCML electrification.

Northampton was a loser from 1830 onwards, when the opposed the London & Birmingham Railway coming through the town as Stephenson originally mooted. Northampton was a much more significant place than Rugby at the time. Some semi-fast WCML trains were routed through, once the loop was completed, but never much of a service.

Intermediate points on long distance routes long had a poor service when basic trains was either fast through expresses, not stopping (or only at major junctions like Crewe), or all stations locals. Intermediate semi-fast trains took a long time coming. Places like Newbury were on main lines for many decades with very few express services stopping there.

 

[nw1]

Northampton was a loser from 1830 onwards, when the opposed the London & Birmingham Railway coming through the town as Stephenson originally mooted. Northampton was a much more significant place than Rugby at the time. Some semi-fast WCML trains were routed through, once the loop was completed, but never much of a service.

Intermediate points on long distance routes long had a poor service when basic trains was either fast through expresses, not stopping (or only at major junctions like Crewe), or all stations locals. Intermediate semi-fast trains took a long time coming. Places like Newbury were on main lines for many decades with very few express services stopping there.

Less surprising for places far from London, but more surprising for places within commuting distance. As I said in another thread it's surprising how recently Newbury had an exceptionally poor service (i.e. 1980s with basically a 2-hourly all stations DMU Reading-Bedwyn plus the occasional Plymouth HST). True, even now the HST services as a rule don't stop there, but I'd have thought it was near enough to London to have attracted an hourly service much like the current Paddington-Bedwyn long ago. Instead, it took until the late 1980s to have a dedicated Paddington-Newbury "Network Express" (about every 2 hours?) and then the introduction of the Turbos before it became hourly.

 

[30907]

Less surprising for places far from London, but more surprising for places within commuting distance. As I said in another thread it's surprising how recently Newbury had an exceptionally poor service (i.e. 1980s with basically a 2-hourly all stations DMU Reading-Bedwyn plus the occasional Plymouth HST). True, even now the HST services as a rule don't stop there, but I'd have thought it was near enough to London to have attracted an hourly service much like the current Paddington-Bedwyn long ago. Instead, it took until the late 1980s to have a dedicated Paddington-Newbury "Network Express" (about every 2 hours?) and then the introduction of the Turbos before it became hourly.

Newbury lost out when the Paddington-Weymouth service was withdrawn, and the layout at Reading meant that it was much easier to run the local service as a shuttle. Into the 70s there was much less commuter traffic from the Kennet Valley than the Thames Valley beyond Reading. From memory 2 loco-hauleds (1 Newbury, 1 Westbury) compared with at least 4 berthing at Oxford.