Virgin Trains East Coast franchise to end 24 June 2018 and is temporarily re-nationalised

[bcarmicle]

GWR/SWR have 3 syllabus and Great Western Railway and South Western Railway have 5 syllabus.

“W” is a three, not one, syllable letter.

 

[The Ham]

“W” is a three, not one, syllable letter.

Sorry my mistake.

 

[91109]

Does anyone foresee the possibility of confusion when people going, for example, from SVG-KGX have the choice between the Any Permitted ticket, valid on Great Northern or LNER, and what will probably become the 'LNER Only' fare? Or will LNER always be abbreviated that way, and never spelt out? London North Eastern Railway could be confused with Great Northern by the average punter IMO.

Got this in an update this morning:


Please see below information regarding customer travel flows for GTR routes and the ticket arrangements.

KGX to SVG we cannot refuse to carry passengers on this flow as this only has Any Permitted tickets. We should however encourage GTR to carry passengers where possible to ensure that there are no potential issues with overcrowding on our services as dangerous overcrowding is the only realistic basis we can refuse to carry.

SVG to PBO there are GTR dedicated tickets. Numbers are small and for weekdays and Saturdays its generally only the stoppers that call at both stations. Sundays its only 8 VTEC trains each way generally Leeds services. We should carry these customers wherever possible unless there is an overcrowding risk.

PBO to KGX we must carry Any Permitted but we should only carry GTR dedicated tickets on an agreed basis. This falls under the usual ticket acceptance policy and if this is required then GTR should provide us with a list of their cancellations and the VTEC services they would like acceptance on. We should then review this against our own loadings and in line with the VTEC ticket acceptance policy before making a decision.

 

[Gadget88]

When do the trains get repainted?

 

[jon0844]

When do the trains get repainted?

Repainted? Won't it be peeling off the Virgin logo and putting a LNER one on?

I assume the logo vinyls are on top of any other vinyls, as is usually the case so operators can debrand a train easily without stripping everything off (even if you'll often find the vinyl underneath is a different colour and the outline of a logo/text remains.. see FCC trains with Great Northern stickers on top).

 

[Gadget88]

Repainted? Won't it be peeling off the Virgin logo and putting a LNER one on?

I assume the logo vinyls are on top of any other vinyls, as is usually the case so operators can debrand a train easily without stripping everything off (even if you'll often find the vinyl underneath is a different colour and the outline of a logo/text remains.. see FCC trains with Great Northern stickers on top).

Just looked like it was painted on the front but maybe they can put a sticker over the top. Also the seat covers in 1st class have virgin logos.

 

[47271]

When do the trains get repainted?

Rewind the thread to 24 May and you'll find that the subject of liveries, vinyls etc has been done to death already.

 

[800001]

Just looked like it was painted on the front but maybe they can put a sticker over the top. Also the seat covers in 1st class have virgin logos.

The headrest in 1st class is easily removeable, just strapped around the seat top and held together with Velcro.

 

[StephenHunter]

The headrest in 1st class is easily removeable, just strapped around the seat top and held together with Velcro.

Insert 'rip-off' jokes here.

 

[SaveECRewards]

The headrest in 1st class is easily removeable, just strapped around the seat top and held together with Velcro.

They now appear to be stitched in. Early ones had issues with people nicking them.

 

[jon0844]

They now appear to be stitched in. Early ones had issues with people nicking them.

Yes, I would have expected that to happen!

 

[cjmillsnun]

Can you imagine trying to get the SNP to vote for any single organisation that had the title "British" in the name?

Particularly the one that Margaret Thatcher refused to privatise.

As long as they could continue to have the ScotRail brand and have it under its own accounting mechanism so that should independence ever happen it could be easily separated, Sturgeon would probably support it.

 

[mmh]

I'm not sure what you are meaning here.

GWR/SWR have 3 syllabus and Great Western Railway and South Western Railway have 5 syllabus

Err, have a bit of a think about that - pronounce W in your head and count again!

 

[jon0844]

Err, have a bit of a think about that - pronounce W in your head and count again!

Wuh.

 

[xotGD]

They now appear to be stitched in. Early ones had issues with people nicking them.

First Class passengers, eh? Not content with free food and drink they expect to be able to refurnish their houses courtesy of VTEC too!

 

[The Ham]

Err, have a bit of a think about that - pronounce W in your head and count again!

See my post after that.

 

[adrock1976]

I've often thought why did they go for so many operators and a separate infrastructure company, a completely untested option compared to the Big 4.

Could the seven companies have been Intercity, Network SouthEast, Scotrail, Regional Railways North West, Regional Railways North East, Regional Railways Central, and Regional Railways Wales & West?

These were the sectors of British Rail until privatisation.

 

[hexagon789]

Could the seven companies have been Intercity, Network SouthEast, Scotrail, Regional Railways North West, Regional Railways North East, Regional Railways Central, and Regional Railways Wales & West?

These were the sectors of British Rail until privatisation.

Very possibly, a friend and I were trying to work it out, but we were thinking more along the lines of the regions rather than sectors.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Could the seven companies have been Intercity, Network SouthEast, Scotrail, Regional Railways North West, Regional Railways North East, Regional Railways Central, and Regional Railways Wales & West?
These were the sectors of British Rail until privatisation.

You've forgotten freight (sold off completely).
Regional Railways would probably have been considered as a single operation (as it was during sectorisation).

 

[transmanche]

I've often thought why did they go for so many operators and a separate infrastructure company, a completely untested option compared to the Big 4.

This article ("The story of a bad idea: Privatisation of BR could soon bring higher fares and higher state subsidies and reduced services. So whose idea was it, who still supports it, and how on earth did it get this far?") from The Independent on 28 August 1993 is quite an interesting read almost 25 years on.

The Centre for Policy Studies [with close] ties to the senior Conservative leadership, came up with a proposal to split the railway system into a series of independent companies in geographical areas, rather as it had been before nationalisation in 1948.

and that:

The Prime Minister [John Major] wanted to split BR into geographical areas, along the lines of the pre-nationalisation companies such as the Great Western Railway.

This was clean, simple and familiar. But the problem, from the Government's point of view, was that it would have stifled competition. Since each company would own the track and rolling stock in its own area it could prevent rivals opening competing services.

It continues by suggesting the idea of separate operators and an infrastructure company came from the Adam Smith Institute:

The Adam Smith Institute, the aggressively free-market think-tank, tried to solve this problem with the more radical suggestion of separating the track and the train services.

It also adds that:

The man who claimed authorship of the franchising idea was Michael Portillo, then a junior minister at the transport department.

John Redwood's preferred idea was for 7 regional private companies

The seven companies you're thinking of may have been the seven INTERCITY areas, as the article says:

The train services would be divided into 25 different franchises, such as ScotRail, Network SouthEast, the Gatwick Express and seven different InterCity areas.

Presumably; East Coast, West Coast, Great Western, Midland Main Line, CrossCountry, Anglia and Gatwick Express?


Finally, the article muses because of all the obstacles (practical, legal and political - let alone public opinion) that:

John Major may wish he had never dreamt of recreating that distant privately run steam train. He may wish that he had left British Rail, with all its faults, alone.

 

[hexagon789]

The seven companies you're thinking of may have been the seven INTERCITY areas, as the article says:
Presumably; East Coast, West Coast, Great Western, Midland Main Line, CrossCountry, Anglia and Gatwick Express?

That makes a lot more sense, so it wasn't just 7 it was 7 INTERCITY areas plus the other sectors.

 

[FQTV]

The Virgin Trains (West Coast) website seems to have stopped offering an automatic redirect to the Virgin Trains East Coast site for ticket purchases on routes wholly or mostly operated by the East coast franchise.

I've also noticed a lot of Virgin Trains East Coast marketing and associated collateral appearing in several stations' leaflet dispensers; notably plastic railcard/photocard wallets, ticket wallets and Intercity Express Train booklets.

The latter are proudly titled 'The Countdown Has Begun' above the generic Virgin Trains logo, of course.

 

[SaveECRewards]

The Virgin Trains (West Coast) website seems to have stopped offering an automatic redirect to the Virgin Trains East Coast site for ticket purchases on routes wholly or mostly operated by the East coast franchise.

I've also noticed a lot of Virgin Trains East Coast marketing and associated collateral appearing in several stations' leaflet dispensers; notably plastic railcard/photocard wallets, ticket wallets and Intercity Express Train booklets.

The latter are proudly titled 'The Countdown Has Begun' above the generic Virgin Trains logo, of course.

Which stations have you seen these? I could do with a new ticket wallet! Seems a bit bad form taking the redirect down now, they could do that on the last day. It always had issues though so no one should have relied on it.

 

[FQTV]

Which stations have you seen these? I could do with a new ticket wallet! Seems a bit bad form taking the redirect down now, they could do that on the last day. It always had issues though so no one should have relied on it.

No need to go to a station; they’ll be on eBay for you shortly .

 

[SaveECRewards]

There seems to be some sort of press embargo on this, because I was told this a few days ago and as yet I've heard nothing from official sources or the rail press.

It appears most of the senior management team, including David Horne are staying on at LNER. I know that People Director Clare Burles was going to another part of Stagecoach. Once the announcement hits the press we'll probably find out who's staying.

Understandably it means the staff who were hoping for change have been disappointed.

However, even though most of the people are staying there's two differences: no more excessive premium payments which means they may be able to afford to employ more frontline staff and more on maintenance and no more Virgin brand which may change the image they try to portray.

 

[corsaVXR]

what the hell is a people director?

 

[Chrism20]

what the hell is a people director?

Fancy name for head of HR or similar.

In years gone by I was a Personnel Manager, now I’m an HR Business Partner and do the same job I’ve done for a decade.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Fancy name for head of HR or similar.

In years gone by I was a Personnel Manager, now I’m an HR Business Partner and do the same job I’ve done for a decade.

Better than the recruitment people who are called the 'talent team'.

 

[Chrism20]

There seems to be some sort of press embargo on this, because I was told this a few days ago and as yet I've heard nothing from official sources or the rail press.

It appears most of the senior management team, including David Horne are staying on at LNER. I know that People Director Clare Burles was going to another part of Stagecoach. Once the announcement hits the press we'll probably find out who's staying.

Understandably it means the staff who were hoping for change have been disappointed.

However, even though most of the people are staying there's two differences: no more excessive premium payments which means they may be able to afford to employ more frontline staff and more on maintenance and no more Virgin brand which may change the image they try to portray.

I’ll be honest having listened to Graylings announcement to the house mentioning the good work and passenger satisfaction etc I did expect some of the top brass to survive.

This is really why the boots on the ground should pass no comment on anything until everything is clear.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Does anyone have any idea how long this temporary renationalisation is due to last for?
?

Until it becomes permanent under a new labour government