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Virgin West Coast off-peak restrictions with split ticket

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DynamicSpirit

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A friend of mine was travelling Euston to Lancaster, using the return portions of two off-peak tickets: Euston to Manchester and Manchester to Lancaster. (The split ticket was because he needed to break his outward journey).

That made me wonder...
1. Would he be allowed to travel on a direct London-Lancaster train (via Warrington) using those tickets?
2. Would be still have to follow the London-Manchester off-peak restrictions (can't leave Euston from 3pm until after the evening peak), or can he follow the much more generous London-Lancaster restrictions (any afternoon train is OK), if he shows both tickets to the guard?
 
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Bletchleyite

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A friend of mine was travelling Euston to Lancaster, using the return portions of two off-peak tickets: Euston to Manchester and Manchester to Lancaster. (The split ticket was because he needed to break his outward journey).

That made me wonder...
1. Would he be allowed to travel on a direct London-Lancaster train (via Warrington) using those tickets?

No.

2. Would be still have to follow the London-Manchester off-peak restrictions (can't leave Euston from 3pm until after the evening peak), or can he follow the much more generous London-Lancaster restrictions (any afternoon train is OK), if he shows both tickets to the guard?

He has to follow the restrictions of each individual ticket when using it. Consider it as essentially two separate journeys.
 

Merseysider

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1. Would he be allowed to travel on a direct London-Lancaster train (via Warrington) using those tickets?
Bletchleyite said:
That isn't at all correct.

London -> Manchester is, and always has been, valid via Warrington Bank Quay.

Manchester -> Lancaster is, and always has been, valid via Warrington Bank Quay.

Providing that the Virgin train calls at WBQ, which it will, this is in fact completely valid.
2. Would be still have to follow the London-Manchester off-peak restrictions (can't leave Euston from 3pm until after the evening peak), or can he follow the much more generous London-Lancaster restrictions (any afternoon train is OK), if he shows both tickets to the guard?
London - Manchester restrictions will apply.
 

yorkie

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I thought you had to follow the restrictions of each ticket, rather then a through journey.
Between London Euston and Warrington, this applies:
Not valid on trains timed to
depart:
London Euston after 04:29 and
before 09:26 or after 15:00
and before 18:45

Between Warrington and Lancaster, this applies:
Not valid on trains timed to
depart after 04:29 and before
08:30.
 

Clip

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It is, but that is only relevant when it comes to Delay Repay and assistance in the event of disruption. For considering restrictions etc it's simpler to think of it as two.

IMO that would only apply if the tickets held were two different ticket types or two different sets of restrictions
 

DynamicSpirit

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That isn't at all correct.

London -> Manchester is, and always has been, valid via Warrington Bank Quay.

Manchester -> Lancaster is, and always has been, valid via Warrington Bank Quay.

Providing that the Virgin train calls at WBQ, which it will, this is in fact completely valid.

London - Manchester restrictions will apply.

Thanks for the replies everyone. That's clarified things nicely. So if I've understood correctly, you have to treat it as two separate journeys, subject to the individual restrictions for each of those journeys. The only exception is that if disruption happens, then you can treat it as one combined journey for the purposes of delay repay / assistance in getting to your final destination etc. Correct?
 

roversfan2001

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IMO that would only apply if the tickets held were two different ticket types or two different sets of restrictions
That was fairly obvious that if they have the same restriction code you could essentially treat it as one.
 

yorkie

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I stand corrected, I didn't know either was.
If you don't know, it's best to check, but both seem reasonable to me.

It is, but that is only relevant when it comes to Delay Repay and assistance in the event of disruption. For considering restrictions etc it's simpler to think of it as two.
This is causing unnecessary confusion.

It is one journey, using a combination of two tickets. Each ticket is valid as described in their respective validity codes.
 

yorkie

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Thanks for the replies everyone. That's clarified things nicely. So if I've understood correctly, you have to treat it as two separate journeys, subject to the individual restrictions for each of those journeys. The only exception is that if disruption happens, then you can treat it as one combined journey for the purposes of delay repay / assistance in getting to your final destination etc. Correct?
It is one journey, which can be used on a through train from London to Lancaster on any train except those timed to depart London Euston:
  • after 04:29 and before 09:26; or
  • after 15:00 and before 18:45
Additionally the train cannot depart Warrington:
  • after 04:29 and before 08:30.
In practice, for this particular journey, the second restriction can effectively be ignored, as there is no train that complies with the first that doesn't comply with the second!
 

LNW-GW Joint

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It's worth noting that the Lancaster-Euston Off Peak Return (SVR, £93.20) is valid via Manchester (and several other routes).
It carries restriction 3A with generous time restrictions, but it is not valid for Break of Journey except to change trains.
On the other hand the Preston-Euston SVR at £89.30 with restriction 2C with more severe time restrictions is also valid via Manchester, but is valid for Break of Journey.
 
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