Virgin XC Overnight Services

[simonm]

I remember back when I was at uni in Bristol around 1998 -2000 that Virgin still ran an overnight loco hauled service from the North West to Paignton and possibly Newquay on a Friday night. Does anyone have the times for that, even as a scan? I wonder if it would be worth re-instating? Did anyone travel on it? Did it ever have sleeper carriages?

 

[185]

I remember it. It was a real red-eye type train. Surprisingly quiet but for the occasional pile of drunks appearing from nowhere going one stop.

Not a sleeper. Was all MK2 stock I think.

 

[Martin_1981]

Yes, it was the Friday night 2330 Manchester to Paignton train which was formed of 'daytime' MK2 seated coaches, hauled by a Class 47 throughout. It ran in the summer timetables up until 2002. Calling points were something like Stockport, Stafford, Wolves, B'ham NS, Bristol TM, Taunton, Exeter SD, Dawlish, Teignmouth, N.Abbot, Torquay and Paignton where it arrived at approx 7am.

Up until 1998, there was an overnight train from Leeds to Newquay and Edinburgh to Penzance (the latter via Torquay and Paignton), formed of HST's.

I think in the summers of 2003 and 2004 there was an overnight HST from Manchester to Newquay, but not 100% sure.

 

[Welshman]

Sadly, it was one such similar train in pre-Virgin days - the 2218 Manchester Piccadilly to Penzance, which was run into from behind in the Stafford accident of 4th August 1990.

 

[dk1]

Post-Voyager it seemed to stop. Didnt the GNER hired-in HST then go cars to Bristol to form an early morning Temple Meads to Paignton then 10.06 Paignton-Newcastle?

Back in the day with Sleeper, Postal, Newspaper & Inter-City positioning moves, Friday/Saturday overnight was a very busy time in the Southwest.

 

[gareth taylor]

Friday night 2330 Manchester to Paignton train which was formed of 'daytime' MK2 seated coaches,

I did it once back in June/July 1998. Left 45 mins late, waiting for train driver/crew. Stayed at Bristol TM for 1.5 hours, if remember correctly. Landed into Paignton on time about 0659.

 

[anthony263]

I wonder if such overnight services would be used today

 

[ian13]

I wonder if such overnight services would be used today

Well, I've taken the modern day sleepers, and found them a great way to get around. The noisy people commuting short distances on them don't really help their cause, but it's a nice way to get between cities without using up a day.

 

[NightatLaira]

I certainly think the operators of the ECML have been missing a trick with an 'all shacks' departure from LKX to Edinburgh leaving at about 0050 to connect with the last tube. It could form the first early morning working from Newcastle to Edinburgh/Glasgow - I think a lot of people in the north would use it as way of enjoying a night out in London and not having to stay away.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I remember back when I was at uni in Bristol around 1998 -2000 that Virgin still ran an overnight loco hauled service from the North West to Paignton and possibly Newquay on a Friday night. Does anyone have the times for that, even as a scan? I wonder if it would be worth re-instating? Did anyone travel on it? Did it ever have sleeper carriages?

There was also a northbound redeye service by Virgin Trains (HST formed on my occasion) that ran ex Poole/Bournemouth(?) might even have been Euston (I really can't remember) but it went to Manchester Picc, via a very interesting route.

I got it in about 10 years ago after a concert at Bham International - it DID NOT call at New Street, instead it went up past Stechford, along the Aston line at about 10mph most of the way, and up to Stafford, Crewe for a long set down, saw the sleeper pass ahead, onto Manchester via Wilmslow. Arrival into Man Pic something like 0246...

It was very well patronaged. Although the buffet was shut.

 

[Welshman]

Wouldn't Network Rail's maintenance programmes rule out such a departure from KX?

I thought it was because of these that the present last two services off the Cross - 2200 to Newcastle and 2330 to Leeds - are timetabled for possibly being diverted.

 

[Holly]

I wonder if such overnight services would be used today

I'm sure that slow long distance services leaving London shortly after midnight would be popular with theatre-goers.

I think I read that there will be some, temporarily, during the Olympics.

 

[Greenback]

I'd like to think that if the Olympics services were seen as a success, they might continue!

However, realistically, I would agree that NR might object to permanent night services on many routes.

 

[Nym]

Well, if night services where timed to run a slower then diversions and/or speed restrictions could be in place, as most of them will only be going in one direction (away from London) then it could be that maintenance could take place on half of any of the mainlines at once, and in service units running past at say 5 or 10mph during this, on the 'wrong' lines if needed...?

I know that if there where later trains back to Manchester (and Bolton) then I would be more likely to visit the capital.

 

[Greenback]

Well, if night services where timed to run a slower then diversions and/or speed restrictions could be in place, as most of them will only be going in one direction (away from London) then it could be that maintenance could take place on half of any of the mainlines at once, and in service units running past at say 5 or 10mph during this, on the 'wrong' lines if needed...?

I know that if there where later trains back to Manchester (and Bolton) then I would be more likely to visit the capital.

I imagine that it could be done, but that doesn't mean that it will be done!

 

[button_boxer]

I know that if there where later trains back to Manchester (and Bolton) then I would be more likely to visit the capital.

I think you've pinpointed the problem here - the railway is a network. A late arrival at Manchester Piccadilly is no use to you if the local services that would take you home from there have stopped running at 23:00.

 

[Holly]

I think you've pinpointed the problem here - the railway is a network. A late arrival at Manchester Piccadilly is no use to you if the local services that would take you home from there have stopped running at 23:00.

Therefore slow long distance services leaving London around midnight need to stop at parkway stations and the like (eg Crewe), rather than city centres.

 

[Greenback]

Or the could leave later, stop everywhere, run slowly and arrive in time for the first trains of the next day!

 

[Deerfold]

I think you've pinpointed the problem here - the railway is a network. A late arrival at Manchester Piccadilly is no use to you if the local services that would take you home from there have stopped running at 23:00.

That doesn't stop them having an 0246 timed arrival at Leeds, ex KGX at 2330. There's only York-Manchester trains running at that time - and they're not with good connections (actually there's precious little for the 2135 out of London to connect into - the 2003 and 2035 ex KGX catch most of the last connections out of Leeds).

 

[Max]

Considering how popular overnight coaches seem to be, I can't see why overnight trains wouldn't be equally as popular.

 

[Deerfold]

Considering how popular overnight coaches seem to be, I can't see why overnight trains wouldn't be equally as popular.

I think well-used would be a better phrase than "popular".

Especially for the nightmare that is the 0200ish Megabus from Leeds - London. I've caught it a couple of times when I had to be in London early but found out too late for the last train down (2040!) or to save a bit of money. It goes via Birmingham! And was very late both times.

And of course a well used coach might seat 50 people which might be rather sparse for a train (and I speak as someone who's caught *a lot* of night coaches - I used to do Cambridge to Hitchin at 0310 once or twice a month - train would have prefereable but gave up at 2315).

 

[dvboy]

Considering how popular overnight coaches seem to be, I can't see why overnight trains wouldn't be equally as popular.

Too popular in my experience. A rather loud overnight from Wolves - Gatwick in 2009 put me off coaches for life.

Personally I'm of the opinion that local trains would benefit running 24-hours (at least Friday, Saturday and Sunday evenings), perhaps at 1 per hour intervals.

 

[Deerfold]

Too popular in my experience. A rather loud overnight from Wolves - Gatwick in 2009 put me off coaches for life.

Brings to mind an overnight from Bradford to London I got when 3/4 of the people onthe coach seemed to be going down for the rugby final at Wembley the next day (which I had been completely oblivious of). Not unpleasant people but louder than on your typical overnight coach.

 

[Holly]

Or the could leave later, stop everywhere, run slowly and arrive in time for the first trains of the next day!

Yes, there is a need for that type of train, if only the railway were seen as a public service instead of as a profit opportunity and nothing more.

Of course in days of yore newspaper trains fitted the bill perfectly. In days when equipment was scarce and manpower was plentiful. Nowadays the nation prefers unemployment to low paid jobs.

 

[Greenback]

Yes, there is a need for that type of train, if only the railway were seen as a public service instead of as a profit opportunity and nothing more.

Of course in days of yore newspaper trains fitted the bill perfectly. In days when equipment was scarce and manpower was plentiful. Nowadays the nation prefers unemployment to low paid jobs.

Indeed. We used to refer to the overnight train to South Wales via Gloucester as 'the milk train'. It was the saviour of many a traveller who was delayed arriving in London!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

When there was a baseload of GPO mail in bags , newspapers , Red Star parcels - it made sense to have limited passenger accomodation on these trains - the 2355 South Wales off Padd loaded to around 13 (inc a couple of MK1 sleepers) - you also got plenty of free reading materila from the guard. There was - I think - an 0330 Bristol - Carmarthen for the same purpose.

And of course the famous York mail - originally an Aberystwyth - York , cut back to Crewe - York in my day , sometimes Deltic hauled I am told for some of the way. Even the MML had very late St Pancras - Nottingham and vice versa - plus the 0145 Waterloo - Yeovil , 0300 London Bridge - Dover and many others till Wapping etc stopped newspaper trains in the small hours.

Dont think anyone came to harm on them - though they could be "interesting" from a social observation point of view.

 

[dvboy]

FCC run overnight on Thameslink route. I got a 2am-ish service from St Pancras not-last-week-but-the-week-before and was surprised how busy it was.

 

[flymo]

When I first started travelling the rails of Britain on Rovers in the early/middle 80's one of the joys in the summer was taking the overnight trains from Newcastle to the south-west, saved a hotel or two that way.

Wonderful memories of both HST's, with an all night buffet and old mkIIs. An hours wait at Birmingham and a 90 minute stop at Bristol meant always time to nip upstairs at New St for a coffee or head to the buffet on the platform (11??) at Temple Meads for another.

On more than one occasion I would head up to Glasgow or Edinburgh first to get some overnight WCML electric traction as far as New Street where the loco was changed to a 50 or something for the trip south-west. Got some weird looks from the fitters watching them detach and attach everything at gone 3 in the morning but what the heck.

When I get the time I'll put together a little timetable of the overnighters back then. So many happy times.

 

[Greenback]

I hope you do flymo, they sound like good days!

 

[anthony263]

I wish they still had that overnight service using a 158 to London Waterloo

 

[ChiefPlanner]

That overnight Waterloo from South Wales was a killer for the traincrew .....so I am told.