Voyagers

[Schnellzug]

As i remarked, somewhat heretically, in the "most hated rolling stock" thread in General Discussion, i have to admit to not loathing them. If you pick the right seat (so you're next to a window rather than a Pillar), you have adequate shoulder room, and personally I like the sound of those big Cummins. Performance is cracking as well. Ride quality may be so-so at times, but that's not really any different from most modern stock. just look at Desiros. The seats, though, i have always thought rather too firm.

 

[IanXC]

The problem was solved by Bombardier, but it is something that has to be done repeatedly like as part of a maintenance routine. XC did this once to their sets, whereas Virgin do it repeatedly, like how Virgin change the seat cushions are part of a routine, whereas XC just couldn't care less if it cots them anything...

Seems to go against everyone elses experience, but I've only experienced 'the stink' on Virgin Voyagers, never XC ones, and I'm on XC ones much more often!

Much as I quite like them I'd have to say that within the next 10 years they ought to be replaced (with EMUs!) and cascaded onto routes like Liverpool-Norwich, South TPE and XCs Turbostar routes. They're just reaching the limit of their capacity on their current routes.

 

[MCR247]

What good are they are on turbostar routes? They are intercity trains, like it or not.

By 'everyone' elses experience do you mean yours?

I've been on 3 XC 220s in the past month and all have smelt, some more than others.

 

[sprinterguy]

What good are they are on turbostar routes? They are intercity trains, like it or not.

They're really not; they're regional trains that have been specified for Intercity routes. That they would be unsuitable for use on XCs' Turbostar routes because a 4-car 220 has less standard class accomodation than a 3-car 170, or a pair of 158s, is testament to this fact: The Voyagers wouldn't even be up to snuff for working those regional services that are currently worked by 158s or 170s!

 

[Blindtraveler]

and as to displacing turbostars they have less seating! That said though any cascade would maybe see them internally gutted and addtitional reating installed?

 

[sprinterguy]

By 'everyone' elses experience do you mean yours?

Well, no: The popular consensus does appear to be that the Crosscountry Voyagers have more issues than the Virgin ones with smelly toilets.

 

[dk1]

I often catch the 10.12 Voyager between Torquay & Birmingham New St & quite enjoy it. Maybe because you get the pick of the seats & therefore no scrum. Will make for a better travelling enviroment when under the wires with a panto-car but at speed i dont really notice the engine noise. Must say the window size is pretty good.

 

[yorksrob]

I agree and personally can't understand how anyone other than those with a case of "if it's older it's better" syndrome can honestly say the HST experience is better.

Chairs on hst have no upper head.support, they have a massive immovable arm rest and the chairs often lean when you move forward.

No power sockets.

A strange push pull feeling which for me is worse than engine noise. I assume it's because it doesnt move as one unit.

The lighting is not great.

Doors are a nightmare for anyone with children.

Doors between vestibules and cabins tend to open randomly which causes the draft from windows.

Toilets don't stink - but they're horrible little things!

I love hst as I grew up with them and they are a great testiment to great engineering. But for (normal - real non people on train forum people) passengers they aren't the best out there.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

I'm afraid I really don't like rock hard seats and I don't have much trouble with the immovable arm rest since I always sit upright on the things, so for me the traditional seats are far preferable.

The toilets are fine on the EMT HST's - they are simple to use (no electrical buttons and underpowered hand-dryers) and the materials used seem to be easily cleaned and maintained, hence why they are probably my favourites on the system.

Never experienced any strange push-pull feelings myself I'm afraid so I've no idea what you're talking about.

As for doors, yes they can cause a waft of cool air if someone comes into the carriage, but in my experience, never enough to be a problem. If anything, there have been occasions when I've been grateful for the ability to go to the vestibule and take a gulp of fresh air.

I like to think I explain my opinions adequately in terms of comfort and utility but they always seem to end up dismissed by the "shiny and new = better" brigade as the mad ramblings of a "train forum" person.

 

[Hydro]

I agree and personally can't understand how anyone other than those with a case of "if it's older it's better" syndrome can honestly say the HST experience is better.

Because I believe it is, in my opinion. The seats are comfier for me, the interior is quieter, they are longer, the services they tend to run are quieter, there's more luggage space...

The draughts and ride (neither of which I have much of a problem with) can be mitigated by sitting towards the middle of the coach. The push/pull occasional shove doesn't bother me much, that's more of a case of being used to worse I think.

I concede the lack of power sockets, but for a sub-2 hour journey, a full laptop charge is more than sufficient.

I certainly prefer it to sitting in a gypsy's caravan of a 222 crammed to the rafters with the reservation system kaput again.

 

[Schnellzug]

I'm afraid I really don't like rock hard seats and I don't have much trouble with the immovable arm rest since I always sit upright on the things, so for me the traditional seats are far preferable.

The toilets are fine on the EMT HST's - they are simple to use (no electrical buttons and underpowered hand-dryers) and the materials used seem to be easily cleaned and maintained, hence why they are probably my favourites on the system..

Oh, yes. That's one of the things about modern stock [I'm not just talking about Voyagers now] ; why are the toilets so complicated? I know that one at least per train needs to be wheelchair compatibel & so on, but even then, do they really need to have about three different buttons you need to press in the right order to open & close it? Why not just have one to do everything? And why are the buttons often on the other side from the Door itself? It makes no sense.

And really, really, being able to lower a Window and get some fresh air really is an advantage, you know, Designers. People from Virgin may go on about draughts, but really, give me a Draught to being stuck in stuffy many-times-recycled pre-packaged processed air any day.

 

[scotsman]

I try to avoid an XC Voyager wherever possible, as a crowded, uncomfotable, dirty journey is generally sure to follow. With Virgin, however, I can usually be sure of a seat and a shop - it's all that I could ever want from an intercity service!

 

[4SRKT]

Does anyone ever really buy anything at the Virgin shop? It's like the worst collection of crap ever assembled in one place, and any other shop anywhere else is better. I can see why people might want to buy food or drinks, but then that's a buffet, not a shop.

 

[scotsman]

Does anyone ever really buy anything at the Virgin shop? It's like the worst collection of crap ever assembled in one place, and any other shop anywhere else is better. I can see why people might want to buy food or drinks, but then that's a buffet, not a shop.

I've got 'kidz' bags, pens, headphones and packs of cards from it! Also, the cheeseburger sounds worth it

 

[Techniquest]

If it's still an Aberdeen Angus cheeseburger, then by gosh it's worth it. Well worth having and making the effort to get a Virgin service back in VXC days. Not that I had to make much effort to do that back then mind, but let's not go there. I don't like thinking about those dark days in my bashing career...

Must say before I forget that Hydro's post on page 1 regarding changing at East Midlands Parkway made me laugh. Such a true statement and rather anti-222, I couldn't disagree with it at all.

Voyagers and that stink, XC are worse for it. They have been for a long time and I don't see how anyone can find Virgin's lot worse. Virgin's 221s are not much better, but they're not worse than AXC!

As for the opening post to this discussion, I can see why the person who made the comment that 4SRKT quoted, again let's not go there, but I would go out of my way to avoid a Voyager or Meridian these days. Still hoping to actually get 221108 and 221111 in the book eventually, same for the other Meridians, but that's it, a line in the book. Minimal mileage will suffice!

 

[4SRKT]

I've got 'kidz' bags, pens, headphones and packs of cards from it! Also, the cheeseburger sounds worth it

Yes, but the cheeseburger is [probably] food, so it could be found in a buffet. I never understood the concept of a shop on a train at all. The range will always be incredibly limited so that if you happen to realise on a long journey that you have forgotten an item, there is almost no chance that the shop will stock it. What's more by selling headphones, colouring books, and the obligatory Mills & Boons/Andy McNabs you are cutting down the range of the buffet itself. Unless you are going to a destination with no shops (such as Bradford city centre these days. Bum bum tsch! *) the only possible reason I can see for having a 'shop' instead of a buffet is for somewhere for people to go when they get bored on a long journey and have yet more money hoovered out of their pockets by Virgin.

* I live in Bradford so feel entitled to make jokes at its expense. This does not mean I am trying to initiate the usual tirade of negative comments that follows any mention of the place.

 

[Aictos]

I try to avoid an XC Voyager wherever possible, as a crowded, uncomfotable, dirty journey is generally sure to follow. With Virgin, however, I can usually be sure of a seat and a shop - it's all that I could ever want from an intercity service!

Pity as I've yet to encounter such a journey, my last long distance trip with Cross Country was Leeds to Edinburgh which wasn't bad bearing in mind it was a single 221 with plenty of seats until we got to Berwick of course mind you I had plenty of stuff to do to occupy my time so wasn't paying much attention to anything else.

 

[scotsman]

Yes, but the cheeseburger is [probably] food, so it could be found in a buffet. I never understood the concept of a shop on a train at all. The range will always be incredibly limited so that if you happen to realise on a long journey that you have forgotten an item, there is almost no chance that the shop will stock it. What's more by selling headphones, colouring books, and the obligatory Mills & Boons/Andy McNabs you are cutting down the range of the buffet car. Unless you are going to a destination with no shops (such as Bradford city centre these days. Bum bum tsch! *) the only possible reason I can see for having a 'shop' instead of a buffet is for somewhere for people to go when they get bored on a long journey and have yet more money hoovered out of their pockets by Virgin.

* I live in Bradford so feel entitled to make jokes at its expense. This does not mean I am trying to initiate the usual tirade of negative comments that follows any mention of the place.

It seems to work? I'll ask my mate what the ratio of food:non food items he sells is.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Pity as I've yet to encounter such a journey, my last long distance trip with Cross Country was Leeds to Edinburgh which wasn't bad bearing in mind it was a single 221 with plenty of seats until we got to Berwick of course mind you I had plenty of stuff to do to occupy my time so wasn't paying much attention to anything else.

Try one of the Edinburgh - Glasgow runs on one (seats, but usually filthy by this point) or Edinburgh - Inverkeithing on the 1816 (may or may not get a seat, filthy too)

 

[4SRKT]

I've had good Voyager journeys with Virgin, but overcrowding does seem less of a problem. They don't have any 220s for starters, and on my last trip I was on a 10-car set from Carlisle to Edinbugh at about nine in the morning and almost had a coach to myself. Meanwhile XC's benighted passengers were slogging into Birmingham, Sheffield, Bristol etc crammed up against the bog doors of 4 and 5 car sets.

 

[Blindtraveler]

the reason that early working from BHM up to EDB is a dubble set becomes obvious when the 10:52 at EDB is called for boarding! Incidentally i quite like bradford, good curry and the hiltons same price as the travelodge! Yet to find a nice pub though!

 

[S19]

I travelled on my first HST and Voyager operated XC Services last week.

Birmingham New Street - Taunton and vice versa

No complaints with the Voyager operated service whatsoever

HST on the other hand was filthy. Toilets were disgusting!

 

[Aictos]

Try one of the Edinburgh - Glasgow runs on one (seats, but usually filthy by this point) or Edinburgh - Inverkeithing on the 1816 (may or may not get a seat, filthy too)

I never use any TOC other then Scotrail for obvious reasons when travelling between Glasgow and Edinburgh so sadly won't be looking at trying that experience, I'm more then happy with the Scotrail's fleet thank you very much.

 

[dk1]

Does anyone ever really buy anything at the Virgin shop?

Me, always

 

[WelshBluebird]

To be fair, the only issue I have with Voyagers is that they are simply too few carriages on them for many of the services they are used on. I have never experienced any issues with bad smells, and think the seats are fine (that is when I do get a seat though).

 

[hstmatt]

I only wanted to travel on a voyager because it was my first time on a xc voyager.After i have traveled on it i wish i never the virgin voyagers are alot better.The voyager i was on the seats were flat and hard,it stunk,and the back of seat tables were tacky.And the blinds were diry on the windows plus when i arrived at manchester the driver turned the engines off and the train shaked like a earthquake and took about 1 min to stop.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I love the Super Voyagers, my favourite trains out there.

I definately prefer them to Pendo's, which I find to shake an awful lot, although admittedly that's going from one journey I had recently in coach K.

Huge plus points for the Supers- Big windows, smell quite nice (shock horror), you can see the air con/ventilation units in First Class on the Virgin sets.

Two weeks ago, I did in one day:
Preston-Wolves
Euston-Glasgow Central
Glasgow Central to Preston all on Super Voyagers, and thoroughly enjoyed it. I even had my coach to myself on the EUS GLC one as far as BHM, which was very unexpected, although it was a double as booked, and I delibrately sat in the front set- a) furthest from buffers at Euston, but crucially b)- 221110- my last VT Super Voyager needed to travel on.

I must admit I don't like the XC one's as much, simply because I know how much they've been neglected- the smell for starters, as others have already mentioned, has been sorted by VT.

I realise I may appear to be biased in VT's favour, but that is by no means the case, particularly after an extremely dodgy looking "Recruitment Event" earlier in the year (my second time to such a thing), but that's another story.

 

[chris89]

As i think i mentioned before on here.

Im a big fan of the Super Voyagers, as i think they are excellent units and always clean and ride isn't that bad (well when tilt disabled that is different)

The VT units what i use the most between WVH-EDB always are nice and clean (no toliet problems) apart from the sometimes broken Resevation system all nice and fine.

Also i do buy stuff from the shop, rather the burgers or a tea for myself. Also im a big fan of Pendo's as well, but supers a bit more.

XC's though are alright but a bit more grubier imo, several times toliets been in a completely disgusting state.

Chris

 

[Schnellzug]

it does seem to be a recurring theme, from numerous independent sources of opinion, that CrossCountry do seem to have some deficiencies in the cleaning and/or maintenance of their sets. Is there no way that these concerns could be put to XC, and some kind of official explanation provided? (Obviously, just "Contacting Us" via the usual channels of the Customer Service Centre would just get the standard auto-generated corporate reponse, but I'm thinking something from the 'horse's mouth', as it were.)

 

[4SRKT]

but I'm thinking something from the 'horse's mouth', as it were.)

As opposed to the smell, which appears to emanate from the other end of the horse.

 

[merlodlliw]

I love the Super Voyagers, my favourite trains out there.

I definately prefer them to Pendo's, which I find to shake an awful lot, although admittedly that's going from one journey I had recently in coach K.

Huge plus points for the Supers- Big windows, smell quite nice (shock horror), you can see the air con/ventilation units in First Class on the Virgin sets.

Two weeks ago, I did in one day:
Preston-Wolves
Euston-Glasgow Central
Glasgow Central to Preston all on Super Voyagers, and thoroughly enjoyed it. I even had my coach to myself on the EUS GLC one as far as BHM, which was very unexpected, although it was a double as booked, and I delibrately sat in the front set- a) furthest from buffers at Euston, but crucially b)- 221110- my last VT Super Voyager needed to travel on.

I must admit I don't like the XC one's as much, simply because I know how much they've been neglected- the smell for starters, as others have already mentioned, has been sorted by VT.

I realise I may appear to be biased in VT's favour, but that is by no means the case, particularly after an extremely dodgy looking "Recruitment Event" earlier in the year (my second time to such a thing), but that's another story.

I suggest you catch the ten car voyager from Chester to Holyhead at 1109 (ex Euston 0910), you will experience several carriages to yourself,

Bob

 

[Blindtraveler]

As opposed to the smell, which appears to emanate from the other end of the horse.

you said it! We sooo need a like button here!