VTEC advances Sunday 3 June

[Nick66]

Any ideas what is special about this date? As usual the advance fare window was extended this morning stating tickets for weekend travel available until Friday 8 June but I can’t book Sunday 3rd. Saturday 2nd is available and 3 June is still listed under the exclusions but what is the reason?

 

[AlterEgo]

Could be an unconfirmed timetable from Network Rail re: disruptions and diversions.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Timetable isn't finalised yet.

 

[Nick66]

Timetable isn't finalised yet.

Just for that one day?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Just for that one day?

The national rail timetable is revised every 6 months - every 10th May and 10th December. Network Rail are still not done with finishing the timetable for the 10th May, as there are more alterations than for most revisions and a lot of projects designed to increase capacity/services are delayed.

Hence Advance tickets are generally not being sold, as most TOCs don't want the risk of the train they've sold fixed-train tickets for not being in the timetable - or being a few minutes off what was planned, either of which would then wreak havoc on confused passengers with the train they've booked for not being advertised when they get to the station.

However, as the other kinds of tickets - Off-Peak and Anytime - aren't fixed to any specific train, they can safely be sold, as there will still generally be the same trains and routes running.

 

[roversfan2001]

The national rail timetable is revised every 6 months - every 10th May and 10th December.

Incorrect. The third Sunday in May (20th May this year) and the second Sunday in December (9th December this year) are the dates of the main changes. Changes are also usually made during autumn ('leaf-fall' timetables) and, the relevant point for this thread, engineering works.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Incorrect. The third Sunday in May (20th May this year) and the second Sunday in December (9th December this year) are the dates of the main changes. Changes are also usually made during autumn ('leaf-fall' timetables) and, the relevant point for this thread, engineering works.

Sorry. The gist is still right - the timetable hasn't been finalised. (They also spoke of staff shortages - isn't this the kind of pretty important thing that would warrant paying overtime and/or getting in contractors!)

 

[block6panger]

I can see the confusion though. The website should state that tickets are available for weekend travel up to and including: Saturday 02 June.

How late potentially could advance tickets for 03 June go on sale?

 

[Romilly]

I have had experience of Scotrail not releasing Sunday Advance tickets until 9 days before the date of travel when engineering works were expected on the date of travel.

 

[Hadders]

There is no requirement for Advance tickets to be sold either. It's at the train operators direction whether or not to sell them.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I can see the confusion though. The website should state that tickets are available for weekend travel up to and including: Saturday 02 June.

How late potentially could advance tickets for 03 June go on sale?

The exceptions are listed, the tickets will be available as soon as VTEC is told what time it can run trains

 

[Nick66]

Just to clarify it is only the Sunday that is an issue? I already have an advance for 20 May, I’m not travelling on 27 May due to the Bank Holiday but that isn’t listed as an exception and the times are listed as the same as the current timetable, shouldn’t those tickets have gone on sale?

 

[Failed Unit]

Just to clarify it is only the Sunday that is an issue? I already have an advance for 20 May, I’m not travelling on 27 May due to the Bank Holiday but that isn’t listed as an exception and the times are listed as the same as the current timetable, shouldn’t those tickets have gone on sale?

The website is tedious to be honest. I am also wanting to book that weekend. At first glance it looks like everything should be available. However when you click on the exclusions link it is shown that most Sundays in June are not open for booking.

They should really have said weekend travel until 2nd June. But then people wanting to make connections may have missed out as the longer date is east coast only.

For interest, anyone know why they won’t let you book onto non-reservations services as soon as the east coast train opens? Frustrating you need to gamble should I wait or buy 2 ticket? One for east coast and one for the local connection?

 

[Nick66]

UPDATE: Managed to book for 10 June but got a message that the train time isn’t confirmed, as is usual in the extended booking window. 3 June still unavailable. Seems odd.

All Saturdays and Sundays in June are currently excluded, the extended booking window only applies to weekdays. I seem to remember last year the early June weekends weren’t available until later but that also applied to the Saturdays. I do the trip every week so try to book as far ahead as possible, thankfully not for much longer! Let’s see what happens at 10am when the next batch of dates should become available.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Not this week

 

[John @ home]

Roger Ford, Industry and Technology Editor of Modern Railways magazine, has issued this preview which may help us to understand the background to delays in the availability of Advance tickets.

Perfect storm hits May 2018 Timetable

Network Rail had completed the May 2018 Working Timetable (WTT) on 17 November last year. With infrastructure enhancements, including Thameslink and the Manchester-Bolton electrification, coinciding with the arrival of new train fleets, the timetable had required almost four million services to be rescheduled. This represented seven times the usual workload.

But then it was decided to phase the introduction of Thameslink services. The Manchester-Bolton electrification was delayed, requiring the timetable for the North of England to be re-written. Late delivery of ScotRail’s new trains added yet another timetable re-write.

The end result of all these changes was that on 23 February the Rail Delivery Group (RDG), announced that Network Rail had been forced to suspend ‘Informed Traveller’, or T-12 for short. This finalises timetables, particularly weekend timetables that can change owing to project or engineering work, twelve weeks ahead of travel.

Thus, T-12 is the date when train operators open their retail systems for the booking and purchase of advanced tickets. It is also important for operators when preparing staff rosters and rolling stock allocation. As a result the process is a licence condition.

Following the Timetable change on 20 May. T-12 will now be replaced by T-6. In some cases it may be nearer T-4.

Network Rail has a recovery plan in place with the aim of restoring T-12 for the December 2018 timetable change. But this is by no means certain.

While T-6 is in force, train operators will continue to offer the usual range of discounted tickets. Should you want to buy a an advance ticket for a service affected by the change to T-6, and only standard discounted rate tickets are available when you go on-line, the advice is to book your journey at the standard fare then, when cheaper advance tickets subsequently become available, buy another set of advanced tickets for the same journey . You can then request a fee-free refund on the original standard ticket.

This approach requires a leap of faith and a healthy credit limit on your plastic. For long distance travel, even a super off peak return ticket can be the wrong side of £100. Note that RDG advised that on some weekends Informed Traveller ‘may not be available until four weeks before travel or fewer’. And what if the operator can’t offer the full allocation of advanced fares?

As a result of the various delays and changes, early in February Network Rail did not have a stable May WTT for Scotland, London North Eastern, London North Western or the South East Routes. Having to divert an already understaffed Timetabling Department to rewriting the May 2018 WTT has threatened preparation of the December 2018 Timetable. According to Network Rail there is a risk that two teams would not be able to start work on the December timetable when train operators presented their Priority Date Notification Statement (PDNS) at T-40 in March.

http://live.ezezine.com/ezine/archives/759/759-2018.03.19.04.31.archive.txt

I expect more detail will appear in the April 2018 issue of Modern Railways magazine.

 

[Nick66]

Not this week

I managed to book for the 10th, it’s only that one day that is still blocked.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Apparently not next week either

 

[trainophile]

The forward journeys I am trying to book for post-19th May are not just missing Advance tickets, but returning no trains at all. For example I just did a dummy enquiry on the ATW website for 22nd May, and the result was this message and an Anytime Day Single for the following Saturday (26th):

Unfortunately there are no journeys available on your selected date and time. Tickets for the next available journey are displayed below.

Been trying daily for a couple of weeks, it's getting frustrating now.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Have you not heard about Network Rails’s problems with the May timetable? Don’t expect anything more than 6weeks out and that may not always be available

 

[trainophile]

Yes I realise there are good reasons, it's just that we get so used to planning well ahead that it's disconcerting when there don't appear to be any trains at all!

Funnily enough this morning I managed to book Advance tickets for mid-June for Crewe to Edinburgh and back on the VTWC website, and Off Peak Day Returns Edinburgh to Kirkcaldy on the VTEC site, both weekdays, so not sure what's going on.

 

[Wallsendmag]

CDRs will always be available , Trainline on the other hand are a law until themselves

 

[Failed Unit]

I am also impacted by this. Should no suitable trains appear and I decide to fly, will they refund my northbound ticket? They have said they will split the difference if cheaper tickets appear but nothing about what happens if it is not possible to return.

 

[Failed Unit]

To answer the why.

Engineering work between Doncaster and Wakefield resulting in diverted and not calling at Wakefield. I suspect they won’t release until that timetable is confirmed to avoid overloading the North East and Scotland services with people from Leeds travelling via York.

 

[yorkie]

For interest, anyone know why they won’t let you book onto non-reservations services as soon as the east coast train opens?

Probably because of the risk that the train won't run at the times specified in the itinerary.

Frustrating you need to gamble should I wait or buy 2 ticket? One for east coast and one for the local connection?

Some websites warn if there are less than 9 tickets left, so if you get such an indication I would book separately, due to the risk of that tier selling out.

Perhaps you could also ask VTEC for confirmation that they will allow the journey to be made on a combination of 2 tickets without any loss of rights (as per NRCoT), as some people in the company are attempting to deny passengers those rights. So this would be a good example of why those rights are needed.

 

[yorkie]

Funnily enough this morning I managed to book Advance tickets for mid-June for Crewe to Edinburgh and back on the VTWC website

Virgin Trains is a different company, and that's a different route, so they may well have decided to release Advance tickets for them.

and Off Peak Day Returns Edinburgh to Kirkcaldy on the VTEC site, both weekdays, so not sure what's going on.

You can get Off Peak Day Returns up to 1 year in advance (though I don't know of any websites that will allow you to book that far ahead, which would be problematical due to the way the electronic restrictions work).

Did the site confirm that you have seat reservations though, or just let you buy the ticket?

CDRs will always be available , Trainline on the other hand are a law until themselves

I think it would be more accurate to say some train companies are a law unto themselves

 

[londonbridge]

I know East coast advances are usually released a week at a time on Fridays, will it be as usual this week as it's Good Friday? Tickets for weekday travel currently available upto Friday 7th September and I'm looking to book for Monday 10th.

 

[trainophile]

Virgin Trains is a different company, and that's a different route, so they may well have decided to release Advance tickets for them.

You can get Off Peak Day Returns up to 1 year in advance (though I don't know of any websites that will allow you to book that far ahead, which would be problematical due to the way the electronic restrictions work).

Did the site confirm that you have seat reservations though, or just let you buy the ticket?

I think it would be more accurate to say some train companies are a law unto themselves

The reason I mentioned it is that previously I had been trying to book other tickets on TPE, ATW and VTWC websites (not necessarily for journeys on those specific operators), but every time I tried a date beyond 19th May I got the black box with something like "No trains have been found for your required dates". I just tried again and they do now have walk-up fares listed, which is understandable given the explanation about Advances being delayed.

I did get reservations for CRE-EDB both ways, not sure about the EDB-KDY Day Returns as I haven't picked them up yet and can't remember!

 

[Wallsendmag]

I know East coast advances are usually released a week at a time on Fridays, will it be as usual this week as it's Good Friday? Tickets for weekday travel currently available upto Friday 7th September and I'm looking to book for Monday 10th.

No I'm updating the website on Thursday this week, quite a few dates as well.

 

[TUC]

Yes I realise there are good reasons,

There not good reasons. They're just reasons. When will the government accept that Network Rail is a failing organisation that should be out of its misery?