VTEC HST door opens at speed

[Edinburgh2000]

"RAIL chiefs are investigating after a buffet carriage door on a high speed train opened just feet from shocked passengers. ........... A spokesman for Virgin Trains on the east coast route said that no-one had been hurt in the incident and explained that investigations were ongoing. He said: “We are currently investigating an incident on March 26 in which a train door became dislodged while the train was in service.” He added: “No passengers or staff were injured in this incident and our staff responded by ensuring the train was brought to a standstill immediately. “We have alerted the Rail Accident Investigation Branch about this incident and will cooperate fully with their investigations.” "

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman....pens-while-moving-on-edinburgh-trip-1-4715474

Presumably the staff door on the buffet car has the same central locking as the other doors, so how could this happen?

 

[axlecounter]

Stand clear from the doors. It’s not just a sticker...

 

[hexagon789]

Was this the staff or passenger door on the buffet car, does anyone know?

 

[A Challenge]

I'm guessing passenger as it says:

a buffet carriage door on a high speed train opened just feet from shocked passengers

edit: it appears this may not be the case

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm guessing passenger as it says:

There’s a staff door that opens into the passenger area though.

 

[hexagon789]

I'm guessing passenger as it says:

I wasn't sure as at the passenger end you have the vestibule door to separate from the exterior doors while at the buffet end the doors are just round the corner effectively.

 

[hexagon789]

There’s a staff door that opens into the passenger area though.

That's what I was thinking.

 

[Busaholic]

'Dislodged' sounds strange to me, in fact, an inaccurate use of the word unless the incident was far more serious than reported here i.e. structural failure of part of the carriage.

 

[74A]

Its the emergency door by the buffet. Not interlinked to the door locking system.

 

[hexagon789]

Its the emergency door by the buffet. Not interlinked to the door locking system.

Same for the guard's TGS door as well I believe. Presumably the door wasn't locked or locked properly after it was last used, unless the lock failed somehow?

 

[74A]

Same for the guard's TGS door as well I believe. Presumably the door wasn't locked or locked properly after it was last used, unless the lock failed somehow?

The only time that door would be opened is during routine maintenance. FGW had a couple come open about 15 years ago. They never found the cause but suspected that someone had fiddled with the opening mechanism and the door later came open. As a result they fitted sliding covers with an alarm over the handle. Don't know if Virgin did the same but if they didn't the only thing stopping someone from opening it would be a small plastic cover easily removed.

 

[hexagon789]

The only time that door would be opened is during routine maintenance. FGW had a couple come open about 15 years ago. They never found the cause but suspected that someone had fiddled with the opening mechanism and the door later came open. As a result they fitted sliding covers with an alarm over the handle. Don't know if Virgin did the same but if they didn't the only thing stopping someone from opening it would be a small plastic cover easily removed.

Oh, so they don't have the standard door handle then?

 

[74A]

Oh, so they don't have the standard door handle then?

They don't have any door handle on the outside. Only a lever inside so it can be opened in an emergency.

 

[hexagon789]

They don't have any door handle on the outside. Only a lever inside so it can be opened in an emergency.

Never knew that, I just assumed it was a standard door but normally locked out of use.

 

[Chris M]

a buffet carriage door on a high speed train opened just feet from shocked passengers

Nothing like a bit of non-specific hyperbole there. Surely every door on a passenger train is "just feet" from passengers, shocked or otherwise. The leading cab doors on a loco hauled train with a non-passenger support carriage will be ~100 feet at a guess with everything else closer (I can't think of any tender locos with cab doors). What matters is how easy or otherwise it would be for someone to fall out of it.

 

[petergb]

some of the contents of the trolley seems to have fallen out of it...

The door, which should have been locked and secure, flew open, sending items from a catering trolley parked just inside it onto the track.
One of the passengers who was in the buffet car at the time that its door opened was Harry Barker, chairperson of East Lothian Community Rail Partnership.
He told the Courier that there was a loud bang followed by a scream from one of the catering crew as items were ‘sucked out’ of the open door.
Mr Barker said: “There was a terrific bang followed by a scream.
“The outside door in the buffet car had blown open at full speed but was still attached to the train.

http://www.eastlothiancourier.com/n...bursts_open_at_speed__investigation_launched/

 

[hexagon789]

some of the contents of the trolley seems to have fallen out of it...



http://www.eastlothiancourier.com/n...bursts_open_at_speed__investigation_launched/

Sounds like it was lucky a crew member wasn't sucked out. What on earth happened that allowed the door to open though?

 

[Chris M]

What on earth happened that allowed the door to open though?

I'm sure that will be the focus of the investigation. The implication I get is that the cause wasn't known (for certain) when the press release was written.

 

[theageofthetra]

They don't have any door handle on the outside. Only a lever inside so it can be opened in an emergency.

Presumably in the event of a fire in the buffet staff area?

 

[theageofthetra]

Sounds like it was lucky a crew member wasn't sucked out. What on earth happened that allowed the door to open though?

Does it open in or out?

 

[transportphoto]

Does it open in or out?

It’ll physically open just the same as any other HST door, just isn’t routinely used.

 

[hexagon789]

I'm sure that will be the focus of the investigation. The implication I get is that the cause wasn't known (for certain) when the press release was written.

I thought it was either omitted by the press or not released to the press, but if it's an unknown then I'll be interested to see what the report says when it's published.

 

[hexagon789]

Does it open in or out?

Outwards, only the cab doors open inwards.

 

[petergb]

The East Lothian Courier article has a bit more info than the Edinburgh News

The train used on the service had manual doors which have to be opened from the inside to exit.
Historically referred to as ‘slam-door’ trains, most of these carriages have been phased out, although some InterCity 125 services still have them.
They are, though, supplemented with additional central driver locking which should not allow them to be opened until the train is stationary.
The cause of the door opening remains unknown; however, the Courier understands that the train had undergone a routine overnight maintenance check which would have involved doors being removed and then reattached.
One area of investigation may be whether there was a mistake when the door was put back on the carriage.

I'm puzzled as to what "routine overnight maintenance check" would require taking the doors off and putting them back on?

 

[warriorofrovac]

I've heard rumours about what the issue was, I won't stay too much though as it'll generate a lot of speculation but it's down to human error I fear. From what I hear also, there weren't any passengers in the area when the incident happened so I'm not sure if "shocked passengers" may be a bit of media fluff.

 

[hexagon789]

I've heard rumours about what the issue was, I won't stay too much though as it'll generate a lot of speculation but it's down to human error I fear. From what I hear also, there weren't any passengers in the area when the incident happened so I'm not sure if "shocked passengers" may be a bit of media fluff.

The "shocked" stuff probably is media spin

 

[sbt]

FGW had a couple come open about 15 years ago. They never found the cause but suspected that someone had fiddled with the opening mechanism and the door later came open.

I find this mildly worrying. Very similar thinking cost a number of passengers their lives before lock wear was identified as the cause and Central Locking was introduced on the HSTs.

I say 'mildly' as I assume, given past events, that rather more investigation was done than with the original passenger door problem. In any case, additional safeguards that don't cause operational problems and have minimal costs are (more than) alright by me. 'Original problem' type thinking would have seen no action taken beyond an extra sticker on the door.

 

[BestWestern]

The East Lothian Courier article has a bit more info than the Edinburgh News

"The train used on the service had manual doors which have to be opened from the inside to exit.
Historically referred to as ‘slam-door’ trains, most of these carriages have been phased out, although some InterCity 125 services still have them.
They are, though, supplemented with additional central driver locking which should not allow them to be opened until the train is stationary.
The cause of the door opening remains unknown; however, the Courier understands that the train had undergone a routine overnight maintenance check which would have involved doors being removed and then reattached.
One area of investigation may be whether there was a mistake when the door was put back on the carriage."

I'm puzzled as to what "routine overnight maintenance check" would require taking the doors off and putting them back on?

And this week's 'Local rag journo trying to sound informed and failing miserably' award goes to...

The doors on an HST are not opened from the inside, with the exception of the two buffet emergency exits; all "intercity 125 services" services have slam doors, not "some"; and what on earth is "central driver locking"?

Where do local newspaper hacks find this seemingly endless supply of detailed but completely inaccurate information!? Is there some sort of journo 'Wonkypedia' website?

As for removing the doors for 'routine maintenance', just no. That doesn't happen. What does happen is that they are supposed to be tested for correct operation periodcally, which may be one feasible explanation. The door might have been opened, tested, and then perhaps the locking mechanism rather ironically failed to return to the fully secure position. I'd suggest in that scenario that lack of use and subsequent stiffness of parts would be a likely cause, rather than wear. On the other hand, that same lack of use and relatively infrequent inspections might have failed to identify a component failure. Time will tell, of course.

 

[theageofthetra]

In normal operation how often would that door be used?

 

[mmh]

And this week's 'Local rag journo trying to sound informed and failing miserably' award goes to...

The doors on an HST are not opened from the inside, with the exception of the two buffet emergency exits; all "intercity 125 services" services have slam doors, not "some"; and what on earth is "central driver locking"?

Where do local newspaper hacks find this seemingly endless supply of detailed but completely inaccurate information!? Is there some sort of journo 'Wonkypedia' website?

It's not perfectly accurate reporting, but perfectly reasonable to my mind. Some of VTEC's intercity trains that travel at 125mph do have slam-doors. Sadly I think we need to admit we're beyond the time when you can expect anyone other than an enthusiast to know that an "intercity 125" is a specific type of train. It's pretty irrelevant to their readers.

Incidentally if you're going to argue about accuracy, you did say yourself there "the doors on an HST are not opened from the inside"... I know what you mean of course, but it's a good example of how difficult it can be to be "accurate" at times!