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VTEC - new onboard crewing system

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Blindtraveler

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Actually I quite liked what you got with them in First if only for the option of paying for a decent hot meal of your choice on many services with priority given to FC but usually enough seats for STD pax also. Compare that to the ever shrinking complimentary offerings which seam to becoming challenging to them to deliver and at best hot snacks in STD its easy to see why I and others want GNER back.
 
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cf111

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Tomorrow morning's Inverness to London service may have to start at Edinburgh unless they can get another set up tonight today's service has terminated at Edinburgh 1 minute late due to a train fault

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y60083/2017/09/05/advanced

This sort of happened to me once under East Coast. The brakes slammed on not five minutes out of King's Cross and coach M filled with smoke, the driver fixed it but we set off a hot axle box detector near Darlington where we terminated, passengers transferred on to an northbound Aberdeen service and at Edinburgh they had hired in a CrossCountry set to get us to Inverness.

Things went quite badly and all in all we were more than two hours late into Inverness but I was very impressed with how the staff on the ground and EC control dealt with the issue, I certainly didn't expect them to hire in a HST at short notice.

Tomorrow, according to VTEC, the southbound Chieftain will start from Perth:


06/09/17 07:55 Inverness to London Kings Cross due 15:51 will be started from Perth.
It will no longer call at Inverness, Aviemore, Kingussie and Pitlochry.
This is due to a fault on this train.
Additional Information:
We are sorry for the inconvenience this has caused you today.
Further Info:

Rail replacement transport is being sourced between Inverness and Edinburgh.
 
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47271

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The crew often achieve the most amazing results with their hands tied behind their backs.

I was on the 2000 Kings Cross-Sunderland HST a few weeks ago. The set had no catering vehicle (nothing unusual about that at the moment) and yet they still managed a full cold food and hot and cold drinks service in First Class with trolleys jammed in vestibules.

They're very lucky to have the people they do. Goodwill must be stretched to the limit.
 

gavin

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The 16:30 Edinburgh to Kings X will terminate at York due to a shortage of Train managers
 

route101

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Just thinking about VTEC services without a trolley VTWC rarely have trolleys !
 

theironroad

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Just thinking about VTEC services without a trolley VTWC rarely have trolleys !


This is true. It's been a long one since I've seen a trolley on a euston to Glasgow or vv.

As to east coast, I finally managed to buy tea from a trolley on Wednesday on the 1430 edb to kgx when a trolley and staff boarded at York..... So I think that 1/6 trips where I've seen a trolley on kgx/edb and vv in last 6 weeks or so.
 

Frontera2

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GNER were good in a lot of the ways, but let's be honest, their first class offering was rubbish.

Rubbish? Or just "not free" ?

IMHO I preferred the GNER way of doing things. If you wanted a meal, you had to pay for it. But what you got was excellent / restaurant quality and far better than the freebies / airline style food you get today. How many people eating on evening trains out of London really want the meal rather than just having it "because it's there"

First class isn't just about "how much "free stuff" can you get. It's also about, usually, a more pleasant ambience for one thing and more space to work etc if you need to.

On the TGV in France, for example, you get complimentary hot drinks in first ( although you have to get them yourself ) but anything else, you get from the buffet. With some TGV journeys matching the length of the East coast, it doesn't seem to be a big issue for our French cousins
 

Bletchleyite

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Rubbish? Or just "not free" ?

IMHO I preferred the GNER way of doing things. If you wanted a meal, you had to pay for it. But what you got was excellent / restaurant quality and far better than the freebies / airline style food you get today. How many people eating on evening trains out of London really want the meal rather than just having it "because it's there"

I'm with you there. In 1st I primarily want a higher comfort level, and a reasonable fare to pay for that (which I would say is around the classic 1.5 times the relevant Standard fare, certainly not beyond twice it). Whether I want gimmickry is somewhat secondary, and I'd rather have the option to pay for a nice sit-down meal whichever class I'm in.
 

SaveECRewards

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Rubbish? Or just "not free" ?

IMHO I preferred the GNER way of doing things. If you wanted a meal, you had to pay for it. But what you got was excellent / restaurant quality and far better than the freebies / airline style food you get today. How many people eating on evening trains out of London really want the meal rather than just having it "because it's there"

First class isn't just about "how much "free stuff" can you get. It's also about, usually, a more pleasant ambience for one thing and more space to work etc if you need to.

I knew people's perceptions of first class would change once EC introduced complimentary catering in 2011 now, like on a plane (or on some airlines in economy) in business class, you'd be shocked having to buy anything in first class on an east coast train.

I personally would go the GNER route (I enjoy dining on trains), although for a complimentary offering East Coast got it mostly right, VTEC improved on it in some ways and now with crewing cutbacks has made it worse. It's now seemingly the case that some choose first class primarily to get food.

What East Coast got right:
- Evening meal services where there's still a decent quality chef prepared option
- Serving everything on a plate on a weekday (even sandwiches), west coast serve a lot of things in packaging which doesn't feel first class.
- Menu rotations (was 4, now 2 since James Martin) adding a bit of variety

What East Coast got wrong (and VTEC fixed):
- They had cut down menus such as mid-morning and afternoon tea, VTEC changed it so you (in theory) could get hot food from the first to the last train.
- They made the breakfast identical regardless of whether there was a chef on board or it was a reheated by crew breakfast (no fried egg), VTEC reintroduced the fried egg on services with a chef on board)

What VTEC got wrong:
- Handing out sandwiches on boxes on all services (feels less premium, raises concerns they're going VTWC route)
- Staff cutbacks making catering provision unreliable. If you can't depend on food being available on a long trip you have to consider bringing your own.

I think weekend first style service should be abolished. Most of the menu can be delivered without a chef, so the only difference between weekday and weekend should be the lack of the chef prepared options (the evening meal menu and the fried egg variant of the breakfast).

Just thinking about VTEC services without a trolley VTWC rarely have trolleys !

Let's not sink to the levels of the west coast! GNER believed that it was important to offer both. Some people (me!) prefer to be able to just get up when they want and choose from a decent selection. Some prefer to wait and be served at-seat. Others (e.g. disabled) may not be able to physically get to the buffet and some lone travellers worry about leaving their possessions unattended to go the the buffet.

There's advantages of both forms of catering and until the ability to order in-app is up and running AND reliable then trolleys should stay. Although even when the app is there some member of the team should take orders to ensure those without access to the app don't miss out.
 

Bletchleyite

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- Serving everything on a plate on a weekday (even sandwiches), west coast serve a lot of things in packaging which doesn't feel first class.

I think Apple has shown that you sort-of can make packaging feel first class (and their attention to detail has spread to other electronics companies), and other disposable things as well e.g. using wooden rather than plastic disposable cutlery, and high quality, thick paper plates rather than the 50-for-£1 kids party type. And more solid rather than flimsy plastic/paper cups and glasses (e.g. the M&S single-glass prepackaged wine glasses).

I don't however think the TOCs are really achieving this.
 
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londonbridge

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Travelled London-Newcastle Friday, train was 2 crew short, they didn't open the bar till Peterborough and there was no standard class trolley. Was in quiet coach n couldn't be bothered to walk half the length of the train so I went without.
 

ainsworth74

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My sneaking suspicion is that VTEC are planning on withdrawing trolleys from standard class once their IEP fleet is in squadron service. Their trains will have buffets (at VTEC's insistence) and the fact that we're months on from the new crewing arrangements and we're still seeing a mass shortage of trolleys in standard suggests to me that VTEC management don't see it as a problem.

That being said I do recall something back from when the franchise was first announced about them planning on introducing at seat catering in standard class via app (including hot food I think) to be delivered 'on demand'. So possibly some sort of at seat catering will still be available (to those with smart phones anyway) even if they do do away with the trolley like I think they will.
 

Chrism20

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Rubbish? Or just "not free" ?

IMHO I preferred the GNER way of doing things. If you wanted a meal, you had to pay for it. But what you got was excellent / restaurant quality and far better than the freebies / airline style food you get today. How many people eating on evening trains out of London really want the meal rather than just having it "because it's there"

I completely agree with this. I'm not trying to sound posh or up myself but I'd rather pay £30/£40 on a decent proper meal which is of restaurant quality.

On the other hand though I've been in Benidorm for the last week and had meals both ways on the plane with Jet2. I think they were about £8 each way and what I had at 37,000 feet was still better than what VTEC is dishing up which is apparently endorsed by a celebrity chef. There wasn't much of it but it was decent enough.
 

route101

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To be fair quite often on VTWC someone walks through standard taking orders .
 

Blindtraveler

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Indeed they do and actually this works well as coffee comes from the shop and is hot and fresh and you can ask for hot food.

Its rather concerning that an 8 quid airline dinner by an airline with quite a mixed reputation is better than free FC/overpriced std offerings on VTEC. Chances also are that the return flight cost less than a Scotland London rail ticket.
 

Chrism20

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Its rather concerning that an 8 quid airline dinner by an airline with quite a mixed reputation is better than free FC/overpriced std offerings on VTEC. Chances also are that the return flight cost less than a Scotland London rail ticket.

I would say their reputation has improved a fair bit over the last year or so. They have invested heavily in the prodcut and it has improved significantly whilst all the older planes are now being phased out.

The £8 meal wasn't perfect but it was every bit as decent if not better as the stuff I've had recently on VTEC which on the last few journeys has comprised of the following - burnt sausage roll, nothing, cream cheese sandwich or nothing, a fabulous breakfast and a duck wrap with no duck!

The Jet2 meals reminded me quite a bit of the ones XC done for a while that you could pre-order although the XC ones were a bit more substantial.

Personally I'd scrap all the hot food between midday and 5pm. Sandwiches are more than suitable for an afternoon journey regardless of the length of the journey. I'd concentrate on the breakfast and dinner services (putting dinner on all services at the peaks) and this would probably at the same time solve quite a few crewing issues that VTEC have. I know a lot of people may disagree with that but we survived before all this hot food nonsense.
 

TUC

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On the basis of the journey I'm on at present VTEC have given up even pretending that thrthe lack of a standard class trolley is due to staff shortages.It was simply announced 'there is no standard class trolley on this service'. When will VTEC be formally taken to task on this issue? It simply is not good enough.
 

ainsworth74

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When will VTEC be formally taken to task on this issue? It simply is not good enough.

By who? I doubt it's a franchise requirement (though if it is I doubt the DfT would care anyway). Plus, expect this to become the norm once the IEPs are in squadron service. I seriously doubt that they'll have trolleys.
 

gavin

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7pm from Kings X last night was faultless lots of staff and a full trolley service throughout I guess they need maximum staff on the 5pm to 7pm trains given they are full and have hot food

It dished out over 100 main course meals in 1st class last night
 

jon0844

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2100 1N34 from King's Cross. Train leaves and then given apologies that due to staff shortages there is no standard class trolley. Then a further apology that there will be no hot food for first class, and just cold sandwiches.

Sounds like a trend emerging here.
 

ainsworth74

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That's just the Virgin way! Slash the service quality but claim that's awesomer than ever!
 

SGS

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2100 1N34 from King's Cross. Train leaves and then given apologies that due to staff shortages there is no standard class trolley. Then a further apology that there will be no hot food for first class, and just cold sandwiches.

Sounds like a trend emerging here.

I'm on the 2000 and there was hot food. I'm sure that will be a great comfort to you. It certainly seems to be becoming a habit on the 2100 though.
 

96tommy

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2100 1N34 from King's Cross. Train leaves and then given apologies that due to staff shortages there is no standard class trolley. Then a further apology that there will be no hot food for first class, and just cold sandwiches.

Sounds like a trend emerging here.


I use 1N34 most weeks and have not seen a trolley service for a few months at least on it.
 

jon0844

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I'm on the 2000 and there was hot food. I'm sure that will be a great comfort to you. It certainly seems to be becoming a habit on the 2100 though.
I was only on to Stevenage so I wasn't bothered, but if I was to Newcastle...
 
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