VTEC / Northern Advance on strike day

[Deerfold]

I've a First Advance ticket London Kings Cross to Keighley next Tuesday for the 1833. I'm booked to change at Shipley onto a Northern train.

Unfortunately, as it's a strike day it's a couple of hours after the last Northern service will have run.

I suggested to Virgin that I could travel half an hour earlier all the way to Keighley but they say I must stick to the booked train and referred me to Northern who also say I must stick to the same train.

Anyone any ideas what I should do? I don't really want to have to pay at this stage to change to the 1803 especially as I chose the 1833 so I had more time to get to Kings Cross on the day.

https://twitter.com/deerfold/status/913813282993172481

Hi - had email about Northern strike on Tuesday.Booked on 1833 ex-KGX.No connection to Keighley. Any chance of using 1803?

 

[yorkie]

This does not surprise me. VTEC have been on the offensive against passengers on Twitter recently; this is one of several examples.

I'd escalate the matter to Transport Focus immediately.

Did you buy the ticket from VTEC?

If so, and VTEC have declined your suggestion for you to take an earlier train, you have evidence of a contract all the way from London to Keighley, the contract was formed with VTEC and you alerted VTEC to any possible problems; VTEC were in a position to remove the problems but if they insist you depart at the booked time I'd stick to the booked train and insist they pay for a taxi for you.

 

[Deerfold]

I did buy from them. They appear to be treating me as wanting to get the 1803 rather than me changing my plans so they can get me to Keighley.

 

[ainsworth74]

You could try phoning them instead? Might be easier to explain via conversation than via 140 characters?

Broadly however I'd agree with yorkie. You have a contract to be transported to Keighley the NRCoT are clear:

28.1 If disruption prevents you from completing the journey shown on your Ticket, any Train Company will, where it reasonably can, provide you with alternative means of travel to your destination, or if necessary provide overnight accommodation for you.

It seems perfectly reasonable, therefore, that VTEC simply allow you to travel early as an alternative means of travel to your destination. So I'd keep up the pressure on them.

 

[Deerfold]

You could try phoning them instead? Might be easier to explain via conversation than via 140 characters?

Broadly however I'd agree with yorkie. You have a contract to be transported to Keighley the NRCoT are clear:



It seems perfectly reasonable, therefore, that VTEC simply allow you to travel early as an alternative means of travel to your destination. So I'd keep up the pressure on them.

I could call them but was hoping not to have to endure their call waiting time and have something I could show staff on the day.

 

[ainsworth74]

I could call them but was hoping not to have to endure their call waiting time and have something I could show staff on the day.

I agree it's far from ideal but I'm struggling with anything else to suggest unless you want to try and chance you arm with a different Twitter person?

 

[Deerfold]

I agree it's far from ideal but I'm struggling with anything else to suggest unless you want to try and chance you arm with a different Twitter person?

I'll call them over the weekend if I don't get a sensible answer on Twitter.

 

[Wallsendmag]

That seems slightly strange to be honest


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[Merseysider]

I'd be tempted to stick to the 1833 and (probably) end up with Delay Repay.

 

[Ianno87]

I'd be tempted to stick to the 1833 and (probably) end up with Delay Repay.

Northern aren't paying Delay Repay for trains cancelled as part of the strike timetable. Even when you're left with no service at all after buying an Advance. Ridiculous, I know.

 

[Romilly]

I've been in a similar situation a couple of times, but with Scotrail strikes and wanting to get a VTEC Aberdeen train rather than a booked later Edinburgh train plus cancelled booked Scotrail connection: the clerk at the VTEC ticket office at Kings X obtained permission from their supervisor to issue me with an authority to travel on the Aberdeen train. But maybe get to the ticket office by 5.30pm to allow time for the queue and consultation with the supervisor.

 

[Deerfold]

I've been in a similar situation a couple of times, but with Scotrail strikes and wanting to get a VTEC Aberdeen train rather than a booked later Edinburgh train plus cancelled booked Scotrail connection: the clerk at the VTEC ticket office at Kings X obtained permission from their supervisor to issue me with an authority to travel on the Aberdeen train. But maybe get to the ticket office by 5.30pm to allow time for the queue and consultation with the supervisor.

I'm going to be struggling to get the 1803. That's why I booked the 1833 in the first place and why I want to sort out in advance.

 

[Deerfold]

I'd be tempted to stick to the 1833 and (probably) end up with Delay Repay.

There won't be any trsins until the next day. The ticket office will be shut. Virgin have specifically said they won't pay for a cab.

 

[Deerfold]

Northern seem to have given up answering. Virgin are suggesting I get a new ticket for the 1803 (currently £145.50) and try and claim it back from Northern.

 

[185143]

Northern aren't paying Delay Repay for trains cancelled as part of the strike timetable. Even when you're left with no service at all after buying an Advance. Ridiculous, I know.

They bloody well should be! Needless to say, I assume Transport Focus are being their usual incompetent selves? Has the matter been reported to the ORR?

 

[Starmill]

Be careful how you act here.

On Northern strike days I have seen a large group of people arriving at Leeds complaining to the staff that they booked tickets to Harrogate months ago and knew nothing about any strike as they lived in London. There were no further services to Harrogate that day and they were being told there was no offer of alternative transport. I have had friends in a similar position although they ultimately were not left stranded.

In addition, Northern have claimed to me that under these circumstances they will not pay delay repay. I have had a claim rejected on this basis and I am aware of further cases reported both on and off this forum where Northern refuse to pay.

I have been sold a ticket for a journey that was impossible, on the day of a strike and then refused a refund when I realised that it was impossible.

It would appear that because it all comes back down to a strike, Northern say they will not pay and will not help if people are stranded.

If you take the 1833 you may well find yourself in a position where it's very difficult to claim any kind of compensation and you will have no choice but to incur further cost in transporting yourself from Shipley to Keighley. I would strongly advise you to rush to get the 1803.

Northern seem to have given up answering. Virgin are suggesting I get a new ticket for the 1803 (currently £145.50) and try and claim it back from Northern.

Definitely don't do that!

 

[Deerfold]

Northern have DMed me to tell me to catch the earlier train, despite not needing their train if I do and it contradicting Virgin's advice. Virgin appear to have given up responding at all.

 

[ainsworth74]

Well I'd consider that authority to travel personally. Just make sure you have it to hand on the day! I'd also be tempted to potentially approach the guard prior to departure (if at all possible) with the whole sorry story.

 

[Deerfold]

Well I'd consider that authority to travel personally. Just make sure you have it to hand on the day! I'd also be tempted to potentially approach the guard prior to departure (if at all possible) with the whole sorry story.

They've told me to catch the earlier one but that I wouldn't be allowed to use VTEC between Leeds and Keighley - I'd have to change to Northern. Unfortunately I'd arrive at Leeds nearly 90 minutes after their last train and be stranded even further from home.

I'll give Virgin a call tomorrow and see if that helps. They're still ignoring me on Twitter.

 

[Wallsendmag]

How can Northern give you permission to travel in a VTEC service after VTEC have said no ?


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[tspaul26]

Northern aren't paying Delay Repay for trains cancelled as part of the strike timetable. Even when you're left with no service at all after buying an Advance. Ridiculous, I know.

Compensation for any delay of one hour or more is compensable pursuant to NRCOT n.32. The only exception to this is where both:

• the cause of the delay was entirely outside the rail industry’s control; and
• the exclusions are specified in the passengers' charter.

In this case:

• a railway strike is in my view within the control of the railway; and
• Northern's passengers' charter specifies no exclusions.

Consequently, if Northern refuses to pay any compensation at all then my view is that this would be actionable as a breach of contract.

In addition, as another poster has highlighted none of this affects the duty to provide accommodation or alternative transport. Both Northern and VTEC appear to be attempting to evade this obligation.

I suspect that Northern would rush to settle any claim before it got anywhere near a court hearing.

 

[Deerfold]

Virgin have finally replied saying they've repeatedly told me what to do, ignoring the fact I've told them Northern disagree. They've told me again to buy a new ticket even after telling them Northern say they won't pay for it. They say they can't give me permission to travel on an earlier service.

I've asked Virgin if they can talk to Northern and come up with something they can both agree to. I'm not hopeful.

 

[Darandio]

Been reading the recent replies on your feed, very much a 'not our strike, not our problem' but feel free to give is another £145, we're fine with that.

Regardless of whether it's a Northern problem due to it being their strike, the fact they are both hanging you out to dry and being purposely unhelpful is pretty unforgiveable.

 

[Deerfold]

Virgin have finally replied saying they've repeatedly told me what to do, ignoring the fact I've told them Northern disagree. They've told me again to buy a new ticket even after telling them Northern say they won't pay for it. They say they can't give me permission to travel on an earlier service.

I've asked Virgin if they can talk to Northern and come up with something they can both agree to. I'm not hopeful.

Nope, Virgin are telling me they're only responsible for getting me to Leeds.

 

[tspaul26]

Nope, Virgin are telling me they're only responsible for getting me to Leeds.

I have sent you a PM.

 

[Deerfold]

I have sent you a PM.

Thanks for that.

 

[Starmill]

Definitely don't buy a new ticket. You have absolutely no guarantee that it will be refunded.

Even if you do get a refund, you may have to spend many hours of your own time (and possibly incur stress or hassle) writing letters and on the phone, for which you wouldn't receive any recompense.

If I were you I would just ignore what Virgin Trains East Coast have said to you on twitter, it is terrible advice.

 

[trainophile]

Can't you change your ticket to the earlier train for a £10 admin fee?

 

[Deerfold]

Can't you change your ticket to the earlier train for a £10 admin fee?

Plus the difference in fare.

So, about £100 altogether.

 

[trainophile]

Plus the difference in fare.

So, about £100 altogether.

Oh sorry, stupid suggestion then . And you'll have checked for a split ticket saving I guess.