VTEC won't excess 'GC Only' ticket

[Starmill]

Yes, the distinction is announced at MKC. The Scheidt & Bachmann machines are a bit clunky but I don't find them terrible to use, FWIW.

Euston announces: "Please be aware that tickets marked London Midland Trains Only are not valid on this train." Hm, funny there are no tickets marked as such are there!?

In the same vein, New St announces for XC services: "Please be aware that tickets marked Virgin Trains Only are not valid on this train." - there aren't any tickets that are even vaguely marked as that!

 

[wellwhatitis]

On behalf of the facially-hirsute forum members I would like to raise an objection to this constant, blatant beard-ism!

(In case you can't tell, that was an attempt at a joke).

I have nothing against beards, just grinning capitalists! (and their hypocritical sidekicks)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Euston announces: "Please be aware that tickets marked London Midland Trains Only are not valid on this train." Hm, funny there are no tickets marked as such are there!?

Not precisely, but close enough to anyone who isn't just being picky. FWIW they are marked "LDN MIDLND.ONLY" (though the new format may spell it out in full, LM are not issuing the new format yet).

It's using "VTWC TRAINSONLY" that is likely to cause confusion on a route East Coast goes nowhere near.
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I can't see the justification for offering a VT only BHM -BHI ticket other than to manipulate revenue streams in a cynical fashion.

In a sensible world, BHM-BHI would be a Verbund ticket valid on all TOCs plus buses. But this ain't Germany (and I guess in Germany it wouldn't be valid on VT). I think Germany does recognise quite well the idea that city transport works well as a monopoly while competition can work better on InterCity, though only sometimes.
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I think the main issue is Virgin's TVMs listing their (slightly) cheaper tickets first.

Shere FastTicket machines (of whatever TOC) list the cheapest ticket first, which to me is the right way to do it. You can then read down until you find the cheapest one that fits your needs. I find this better than the Scheidt & Bachmann ones where to compare prices for different routes you have to drill down repeatedly.

I think to start interfering with that would actually be anti-competitive and unnecessarily confusing. If LM want their ticket first, they need to reduce it in price so it's cheaper than the VT one. Surely that's simple competition?

 

[yorkie]

... If LM want their ticket first, they need to reduce it in price so it's cheaper than the VT one. Surely that's simple competition?

Indeed. There are LM Only tickets for this flow, and they really ought to be cheaper than a 'premium' InterCity operators' tickets.

There is nothing to stop LM making their tickets cheaper than Virgin's.

If LM really think that loads of people are on Virgin Only tickets on LM because the Virgin Only ones are a little bit cheaper, and they do not want to reduce the fares they charge for the slower service, then why don't LM deploy a suitable quantity of ticket examiners to deal with this?

LM are obviously content with the status quo, which I suspect cannot be particularly detrimental to LM.

 

[wellwhatitis]

Indeed. There are LM Only tickets for this flow, and they really ought to be cheaper than a 'premium' InterCity operators' tickets.

There is nothing to stop LM making their tickets cheaper than Virgin's.

If LM really think that loads of people are on Virgin Only tickets on LM because the Virgin Only ones are a little bit cheaper, and they do not want to reduce the fares they charge for the slower service, then why don't LM deploy a suitable quantity of ticket examiners to deal with this?

LM are obviously content with the status quo, which I suspect cannot be particularly detrimental to LM.

It's not that simple. They can't do it due to the local stations their trains serve between BHM and BHI as they would then have to offer an LM only ticket to them too in order to align fares. That opens an entirely different can of worms as being the sole operator for those stations, they wouldn't be allowed to.

 

[yorkie]

I was just talking about MKC-EUS.

For the other flows which are priced by LM, LM could reduce the cost of the Any Permitted tickets, which I suspect they will be reluctant, but as I said above if it is a major problem they should deploy more ticket inspectors. They obviously don't think it is a big problem as they are not doing this.

 

[Bletchleyite]

LM are obviously content with the status quo, which I suspect cannot be particularly detrimental to LM.

They seem happy for guards often not to bother doing tickets, too. When tickets are done, it's always the same guards that do them.

That said, at commuter times at least, actual fare-dodging is relatively low. Though it remains the case that the Penalty Fares scheme is rather theoretical.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Euston announces: "Please be aware that tickets marked London Midland Trains Only are not valid on this train." Hm, funny there are no tickets marked as such are there!?

In the same vein, New St announces for XC services: "Please be aware that tickets marked Virgin Trains Only are not valid on this train." - there aren't any tickets that are even vaguely marked as that!

Doesn't Euston still make the "Please be aware that tickets marked Virgin Trains Only are not valid on this train." announcement? It certainly did when I was there a few weeks ago. How hard would it be to correct the announcement so that it actually refers to "VTWC TRAINS ONLY"?

 

[wellwhatitis]

I was just talking about MKC-EUS.

For the other flows which are priced by LM, LM could reduce the cost of the Any Permitted tickets, which I suspect they will be reluctant, but as I said above if it is a major problem they should deploy more ticket inspectors. They obviously don't think it is a big problem as they are not doing this.

The ticket inspectors idea simply isn't practical on that journey, you would need loads of them.

I don't know whether LM have the final say on the Any Permitted ticket as there are 3 other operators.

Far better since there are 4 operators to prohibit a TOC specific product on this corridor in my opinion.

 

[yorkie]

I don't know whether LM have the final say on the Any Permitted ticket as there are 3 other operators..

LM have control over most/all of the shorter distance fares that you mentioned above, so they do have the final say on the 'Any Permitted' fares.

The other operator(s) can set their own fares, which Virgin generally do.

 

[wellwhatitis]

LM have control over most/all of the shorter distance fares that you mentioned above, so they do have the final say on the 'Any Permitted' fares.

The other operator(s) can set their own fares, which Virgin generally do.

Don't forget that it would be very difficult for any of the other operators to implement a TOC only product on these fares due to all the stations involved being Virgin run. Obviously the staff and ticket machines will push the VT product. This is another major problem with these franchises. Booking office staff should not be employed by TOCs and all operators should issue through the same TVMs in my opinion.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Don't forget that it would be very difficult for any of the other operators to implement a TOC only product on these fares due to all the stations involved being Virgin run. Obviously the staff and ticket machines will push the VT product. This is another major problem with these franchises. Booking office staff should not be employed by TOCs and all operators should issue through the same TVMs in my opinion.

The ticket machines do not "push the VT product". The fares are shown in the order of price.

 

[yorkie]

Don't forget that it would be very difficult for any of the other operators to implement a TOC only product on these fares due to all the stations involved being Virgin run. Obviously the staff and ticket machines will push the VT product. This is another major problem with these franchises. Booking office staff should not be employed by TOCs and all operators should issue through the same TVMs in my opinion.

The booking office staff are required to be impartial.

The TVMs should be impartial, and if they are not impartial clear signage must be in place.

However I do share your concerns regarding impartiality and I believe more should be done to ensure impartiality, especially with TVMs.

 

[455driver]

On behalf of the facially-hirsute forum members I would like to raise an objection to this constant, blatant beard-ism!

(In case you can't tell, that was an attempt at a joke).

If you have a problem with the (accurate) statement made then please go buy a bloomin razor and use it!

so was this.