Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by Bletchleyite, 1 Aug 2018.
I have no idea what an APEX is, but I know what an advance is
APEX is a brand. You could call it Coca Cola (well, you couldn't, but you get what I mean). What it stands for (Advance Purchase EXcursion) is basically irrelevant, a bit like HSBC aren't enthusiastic to tell you what that stands for.
So basically a more confusing name for an Advance
That’s more or less how it works on the continent, and it’s simple & understood.
Advance Purchase Excursion. Widely recognised for what it was before ‘simplification’ - after which the name went out of use.
You have more faith in the intellect of the general public than I do!
single Leg pricing, a fair and consistent definition of peak and a national universal railcard would negate the need for these tickets.
I believe all the major TOCs read this forum; I can't believe Virgin don't!
I am not sure they will be bothered about being caught misleading people; it will come as no surprise to most people reading it as and it's just one of many times they have been caught out on here, so the reputational damage will be quite low.
I doubt they'll change the wording; sure some of their staff will be on the side of customers and realise they ought to change their ways, but there seems to be plenty of managers who are eager for the company to be anti-customer!
These are much wider issues that really are a separate topic.
Let's take Reading to Leicester for example, the Super off-peak return is £50 with a railcard.
I can get advances for £11.55 each way, so £24 for the return.
And I can take an earlier train with the advances too
ScotRail rather like to bunch all the reserved seats for the Far North line in one half of the carriage. Once the train leaves Inverness, I always scout the other carriages and have always been able to get at least 2 seats to myself.
For the 8 or so trips I've done the guard has always checked the ticket and there has never been a problem.
I'm travelling with my 2 year old on an Advance with booked seat in a few weeks time. He may need to be sat in his pram (and me with him), which patently can't be next to my reserved seat, or that I may move with him to a spare pair of two seats to save him from climbing/kicking* the poor bugger invariably reserved next to me, so they'd have a job enforcing me to do this...
Just another example of TOCs being unnecessarily anti-customer. Although, you'd have to be one heck of a jobsworth TM to actually enforce this (I've never had an issue)
*He's gone proper hyper of late
I know the reservation labels threaten a penalty for unauthorised removal - has this ever been enforced on anybody?!
(Personally I see no harm in removing your own label if you sit somewhere else - the penalty intention obviously aimed at people removing a label to claim someone else's seat)
Many people don't understand the difference between Advance tickets and Anytime or Off Peak tickets purchased in advance!
There really should be a better name for Advance fares. 'Apex' or 'Value' would be my suggestion (although 'value' could be considered misleading given some of the prices charged )
The following is from the SJ (Swedish) site:
Tickets in this flexibility category cannot be rebooked. The price you paid for your ticket will not be refunded and the ticket cannot be transferred to another person. If, on the other hand, you are unable to travel due to sickness, you will receive a refund on presentation of a medical certificate.
To rebook your ticket, search for your booking and cancel the ticket before the train departs. You will then receive a voucher value, valid for 180 days from the first validity date of the original ticket. The voucher value is the ticket price minus the booking fee. You can use your voucher value for one or more new tickets for travel on SJ trains.
Tickets in this flexibility category will be refunded if you cannot travel for whatever reason. We will refund the ticket price minus the booking fee. All cancellations must be made before the train departs by searching for your booking. "
I agree, I can just imagine how my late mother would have lectured me on how stupid I was being if I insisted and an Advance ticket and a ticket purchased in advance weren't the same thing.
Advance is a confusing name because people don’t realise walk up tickets can also be bought in advance but at the same time aren’t discounted.
Especially when conductors make announcements like "If you're travelling with an Advance purchased ticket..."
If Joe Public doesn't know better they don't know the difference between upper case A and lower case a in that sentence.
Staggeringly off topic, but get a friends and family railcard. A discounted adult and child ticket(s) are cheaper than paying the full adult fare just for you and you get a reserved seat for your son too.
XC like you to sit in your reserved seat. Although I don’t think “enforced” is a fair term for it.
But their trains are so small and full that the seats are basically a jigsaw puzzle and as soon as one person isn’t in the right seat, the whole thing falls apart, particularly on a 4 coach voyager.
I have a 26-30 Railcard anyway, hence ticket only for me. But, yes, once this expires my intention is to take him on an F&F Railcard even though he's under 5.
I fail to understand the problems over the name APEX as it was a well known term taken from the airline industry in the first place.
Much as I laughed at SNCF for them in the past (and Orange, who just named their phone packages after animals), the idea of a strong brand was probably the best one as then a neutral word gains the meaning the railway wants it to.
I fail to see the confusion of in calling a cheaper ticket that is bought in advance an 'Advance' ticket precisely that, I for one cannot think of any better alternative name. Maybe Saver or Value, but they add no more clarity. Calling it a Non-modifiable Advance Saver fare would be the most descriptive, but a bit wordy!
In other news has anyone seen adverts on the internet advertising London to Glasgow in 4 hrs 5 mins? Is that not also misleading advertising as I have never seen a journey that takes that amount of time. Unless HS2 is taking bookings now...
The amount of people who ask me what restrictions there are on an "Anytime Day Return" (we don't have any Off Peak Day Returns on the Cambrian) always amazes me.
"Was" being the operative term. It's a name from the past, not the present.
A new, unambiguous name is needed for Advance tickets - APEX isn't it.
That's the problem with AP "those in the know" can get very defensive about having them. However for those few that benefit the vast majority don't and they cause confusion for the majority which then acts as a barrier to traveling by rail. The current form of AP mixed up with a walk on railway is not inclusive or fair.
agreed - don't worry a very lengthy missive went off to the Fares Consultation from Newtown Station Travel.
Because then the guard says "If you have an advance purchase ticket you must check your reservations and make sure they're for this train". John Public thinks "I bought my ticket in advance", checks his reservation and realises it's not for this train, he panics, gets off, the train leaves, and he has to catch a later one, never realising he actually bought a flexible ticket that would have allowed him to be on that train.
Just because you personally can't think of a better name doesn't mean the name isn't confusing.
Because a ticket bought in advance isn't necessarily an "Advance" ticket.
It doesn't overly matter what it is as long as it doesn't have another meaning that could be read into it. Something like "RailValue" would work - indeed, what we now call Advance tickets started off being called "Virgin Value" - all the other TOCs had non-changeable return tickets requiring the same quota to be available on both legs, which meant in the 90s they were often very hard to get, while VTWC pioneered (copying from the low cost airlines) the idea of single tickets which were changeable for a fee.
What it *does* need to do is clearly be a brand, and not a simple dictionary word.
What about "Fixed train discount" for Advance? Advance doesn't make any sense: you can but non-Advance tickets in advance; you can now buy some Advance on the same day that you travel; and with all this "pay before you board" crackdown, everyone should be getting a ticket in advance of making their journey.
(Also, a significant number of people think that they are called "Advanced" tickets.)