VTWC Facing Industrial Action By On-Board Staff

[driver_m]

Sorry for the error. Bound to be next in the queue & eager to join the bandwagon.

Have you not got a daily mail to read and get irrationally angry with?

 

[6Gman]

Aren't there almost more train companies with strike action currently happening or threatened than not?
Southern, Northern, Merseyrail, Greater Anglia, SWR, XC, VTWC, ATW. Have I missed any?
This is simplty not acceptable. I can't think of another industry currently with so many days lost to strike action & causing so much misery to the public.

And your solution is ... ?

 

[London Trains]

Aren't there almost more train companies with strike action currently happening or threatened than not?
Southern, Northern, Merseyrail, Greater Anglia, SWR, XC, VTWC, ATW. Have I missed any?
This is simplty not acceptable. I can't think of another industry currently with so many days lost to strike action & causing so much misery to the public.

Wow. So only Southeastern, Scotrail, GWR, TPE, EMT and VTEC are not striking. Plus the open access operators (GC and Hull Trains). So yes, it's more striking than not.

 

[the sniper]

Sorry for the error. Bound to be next in the queue & eager to join the bandwagon.

That is in fact unlikely. Don't worry yourself about it though.

 

[Hellfire]

I'm just a VTWC passenger who relies on their service to get where I need to be and have done for years. I haven't had an above inflation pay rise since 2005 and I suspect a large number of people in this country are the same. I am getting really annoyed with the RMT which seems hell-bent on disrupting the lives of the very people that pay the wages of its members then cries crocodile tears about the mayhem it causes.
I appreciate my remarks might not go down well with some RMT members on this forum but many of us are getting sick and tired of their actions

 

[peter166]

I'm just a VTWC passenger who relies on their service to get where I need to be and have done for years. I haven't had an above inflation pay rise since 2005 and I suspect a large number of people in this country are the same. I am getting really annoyed with the RMT which seems hell-bent on disrupting the lives of the very people that pay the wages of its members then cries crocodile tears about the mayhem it causes.
I appreciate my remarks might not go down well with some RMT members on this forum but many of us are getting sick and tired of their actions

I totally agree. The RMT is indeed hell-bent on its members causing the maximum disruption to the very passengers who ultimately pay their wages.
The sooner there is a ban on all public transport workers striking the better.

 

[xc170]

What will the RMT do when their members strike themselves out of a job?

 

[KN1]

It's only a matter of time before an RMT member is injured/assaulted by a disgruntled passenger fed up with political strikes badly affecting or terminating his employment.

 

[Jonny]

Or, even if KN1's scenario doesn't come to pass, an incident arises where a displaced passenger (car/cycle or on foot) is involved in a collision and the media spins it to make the RMT look bad. It would be a pity if the right to withdraw labour was subsequently reduced to a right to resign in the aftermath.

 

[BestWestern]

Oooh it's like a mothers' meeting in here...

It would seem that an employer has made a deal during pay negtioations, and then subsequently decided that actually they'd rather not honour it. They have then approached one of the unions representing some of their staff and agreed to an alternative in order to rectify the situation, before approaching another union representing a far greater number of staff and, basically, telling them to get lost. Protesting at that is unreasonable why exactly?

This looks very much like the popular game of "keep it sweet with Aslef but try your luck with the RMT". The management are chancing their arm, knowing very well what the outcome will be. They can deal with all of their staff in an equally fair and professional manner, or they can play silly buggers and have the really rather obvious consequences.

 

[driver_m]

The people on here who are coming out with the usual 'ban strikes', 'RMT behaviour' etc etc

How would you resolve this? One group gets a payoff, the other doesn't. Solve it. (Precious little criticism of how the situation has arisen, which is very telling)

 

[the sniper]

I'm just a VTWC passenger who relies on their service to get where I need to be and have done for years. I haven't had an above inflation pay rise since 2005 and I suspect a large number of people in this country are the same.

If the RMT approached pay talks/disputes in a way the forum deemed acceptable, grades represented by the RMT wouldn't have had a decent pay rise either...

It's only a matter of time before an RMT member is injured/assaulted by a disgruntled passenger fed up with political strikes badly affecting or terminating his employment.

Can but hope, hey...

(Precious little criticism of how the situation has arisen, which is very telling)

Management dropped one hell of a clanger on this one... Plus the perception of ASLEF you see on here (compared to the RMT) never ceases to amuse and amaze me.

 

[footprints]

(Precious little criticism of how the situation has arisen, which is very telling)

When the RMT have created the widespread perception that they’re permanently spoiling for a fight and looking to ballot for strike action and cause disruption at the drop of a hat, is it any wonder that when their members have a genuine grievance that it’s dismissed as typical RMT behaviour?

The fever pitch, provocative rhetoric that accompanies every press release doesn’t help much either because it presents every issue as an outrage and disgrace and every franchise as a basket case. As a passenger, Aslef’s approach seems much more pragmatic, balanced and professional in comparison.

 

[DarloRich]

Oooh it's like a mothers' meeting in here...

It would seem that an employer has made a deal during pay negtioations, and then subsequently decided that actually they'd rather not honour it. They have then approached one of the unions representing some of their staff and agreed to an alternative in order to rectify the situation, before approaching another union representing a far greater number of staff and, basically, telling them to get lost. Protesting at that is unreasonable why exactly?

This looks very much like the popular game of "keep it sweet with Aslef but try your luck with the RMT". The management are chancing their arm, knowing very well what the outcome will be. They can deal with all of their staff in an equally fair and professional manner, or they can play silly buggers and have the really rather obvious consequences.

You are wasting your time: Greedy evil guards (and their bolshie/commie/satanic union) paid a fortune holding decent , honest, hard working, underpaid, stirvers not skivers to ransom is a much more easily digestible narrative.

 

[HH]

Oooh it's like a mothers' meeting in here...

It would seem that an employer has made a deal during pay negtioations, and then subsequently decided that actually they'd rather not honour it. They have then approached one of the unions representing some of their staff and agreed to an alternative in order to rectify the situation, before approaching another union representing a far greater number of staff and, basically, telling them to get lost. Protesting at that is unreasonable why exactly?

This looks very much like the popular game of "keep it sweet with Aslef but try your luck with the RMT". The management are chancing their arm, knowing very well what the outcome will be. They can deal with all of their staff in an equally fair and professional manner, or they can play silly buggers and have the really rather obvious consequences.

I see nothing to say that the reduced one hour was ever going to apply to anyone except drivers. Therefore why would management speak to anyone except ASLEF?

 

[driver_m]

I see nothing to say that the reduced one hour was ever going to apply to anyone except drivers. Therefore why would management speak to anyone except ASLEF?

That will be because that hours reduction wasn't done just for us drivers

 

[nottsnurse]

Despite being someone who uses the railways regularly to get to work I'd just like to say I am fully supportive of the rights of rail workers to strike and indeed the current actions/ballots taking place across the country.

Just because others within the country's workforce have let their right to join a union (and use the ultimate sanction of withdrawing their labour) slip doesn't mean that we should all be happy to join the race to the bottom.

More unions not less is the anwer. Unfortunately too many across the country are concerned only with their individual lot.

 

[LowLevel]

It's only a matter of time before an RMT member is injured/assaulted by a disgruntled passenger fed up with political strikes badly affecting or terminating his employment.

In which case they may well terminate their own employment and do bear in mind we are at liberty to defend ourselves when attacked. Been there, done that.

Anyway it's not very often that the folk on strike get grief. The thickos of the world usually see either 'conscientious objectors (to be polite)', managers or people working for other companies who are unaffected in the same area and have a pop at them instead.

 

[HH]

That will be because that hours reduction wasn't done just for us drivers

Interesting. So there was a general commitment to reduce hours for staff and it was all going to be left down to a working group to sort out? I feel that there is something more to this story.

 

[tspaul26]

You are wasting your time: Greedy evil guards (and their bolshie/commie/satanic union) paid a fortune holding decent , honest, hard working, underpaid, stirvers not skivers to ransom is a much more easily digestible narrative.

You forgot jobsworth.

 

[DarloRich]

You forgot jobsworth.

sorry - not very good at this am I

 

[Goldfish62]

The R

When the RMT have created the widespread perception that they’re permanently spoiling for a fight and looking to ballot for strike action and cause disruption at the drop of a hat, is it any wonder that when their members have a genuine grievance that it’s dismissed as typical RMT behaviour?

The fever pitch, provocative rhetoric that accompanies every press release doesn’t help much either because it presents every issue as an outrage and disgrace and every franchise as a basket case. As a passenger, Aslef’s approach seems much more pragmatic, balanced and professional in comparison.

The RMT NEC is out of control because Strong Man Crow is no longer around to keep it under control. He was to the RMT as Tito was to Jugoslavia.

 

[whhistle]

The problem is greed and there's no getting away from that.
I'm all for workers rights and all that but there are two sides to each coin, and I always struggle to understand the nitty gritty reasons why some workers decide to strike.

There are many workers, NHS for example, that haven't had a pay rise that matches that of the railway for the past few years. So it's fair to say the railway have been lucky.

But there is always another choice. Find a new job. There seems to be a growing problem with workers thinking they are entitled to a pay rise... like it's their right. Yet the job hasn't hugely changed and many don't think of it from the company point of view. If the job hasn't changed, why should you get paid more? If you want more money, find a new job... better paid version of what you already do. But that's right, West Coast workers are already among the highest paid for their roles, compared with other TOCs.

But can the worker be bothered? No. They will simply threaten to strike and hope to get something better.

Don't get me wrong, I think there should be a limit on profits for all companies, not just railways, and get rid of shareholders. Sounds drastic but with some thought it could work.

But why it's greed is obvious - it's all about money, not conditions.

Yes, I know Virgin West Coast wanted a reduction in hours for the working week as part of their pay deal, but why not look at other enhancements instead of pure cash? A few years ago there was a massive package including the reduction of First Class entitlement from 10 years down to 5 - a great bonus for many. East Midlands Trains is still 15 years... that's a long time in this day and age, a legacy condition left over from Midland Mainline.

So while I hate companies charging huge amounts and earning huge amounts of profit (as well as expenses and all that), I can't accept the RMT as a serious organisation, which filters down to having less sympathy for the actual workers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Because there is inflation? Otherwise as time goes on you are paid *less*.

But I do agree about super-inflationary rises.

 

[farleigh]

Someone mentioned on an earlier strike threat about a system in France where worker all turn up for the day but refuse to take money from customers.

That way staff don't lose pay, passengers aren't inconvenienced but the company loses money.

Is that impossible here?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think there isn't legal scope for that - not doing a major part of your job deliberately would I think be gross misconduct (not working at all and not being paid for not working is protected in law as a strike). Mind you enough guards don't do tickets anyway.

 

[pt_mad]

It basically comes down to if something has supposedly been agreed on principal, and then not implemented, and enough workers feel strongly enough about it to vote for action then it's fair dues. And of course, workers are within their legal rights to do this whether or not there are some people who disagree morally.

And if people disagree with current laws on industry action and balloting, they are free to campaign or contact their MPs or ministers in order to attempt to change the law. Quite who would wish to object to that degree I don't know.
And a key aspect would be, if the law were to change to prevent strikes or reduce the chances of a strike then the whole workforce as a whole throughout the land would likely be affected for the worst.
An employer could just dismiss the employee's concerns as they would have no recourse, no right to strike and thus no publicity or public awareness for the cause.

Don't forget, the Trade Union Act which was brought in only just recently, made it even harder to strike, and the turnout and percentage numbers needed in ballots were increased. So if these recent strikes are still passing the threshold required, then a high percentage of the workforce must feel really strongly about this subject. And why shouldn't they be heard?

If any employer could implement anything they wanted to with no consultation, bargaining or negotiation then it would be a far worse society to be a part of for all of us.

Just as a poster said above, society needs more unions not less. If we were all unionised in all industries, we would probably not begrudge rail workers going on strike. And we would probably enjoy far better work rights, conditions and pay increases ourselves.

So many workers in so many industries live in constant fear of their lack of rights or lack of job security, so why shouldn't we all strive to improve this. And for our children. Rights seem to be decreasing for workers as time goes on, and this can only be a bad thing.

Our jealousy that rail workers often get inflation pay rises is not a reason to resent them. It's a reason to fight for our own rights and pay rises and for a better standard of workers rights in the UK as a whole, so that everyone gets a fair deal.

I appreciate that nurses haven't had a decent rise, but that is capped by the government, and this is a decision made by government not unions or citizens of this country. It is not on. But the government obviously thinks it is on, and that's a separate issue altogether.


The railways are making millions in profits and dividends for shareholders, and it is only fair that those on the ground serving the public should share this success rather than all wealth to the shareholders and directors and below inflation rises (any of which would be a pay cut against inflation) for employees .

 

[FordFocus]

There are many workers, NHS for example, that haven't had a pay rise that matches that of the railway for the past few years. So it's fair to say the railway have been lucky.

Various unions including mine (ASLEF) have supported an end to this never ending public pay cap. However it's up to the unions that represent NHS members to put pressure on the government to end it. I don't buy this "NHS workers haven't had a pay rise so private railway companies should not" argument. Ultimately it creates a race to the bottom and the UK has seen pay go in the opposite direction and yet people in this country aren't doing anything about it.

Going back to the topic, Virgin have gone back on an agreement made between the union(s) and them. If it was the opposite way around then the unions would be hauled through the courts just like the ASLEF/GTR court case.

 

[al78]

The problem is greed and there's no getting away from that.
I'm all for workers rights and all that but there are two sides to each coin, and I always struggle to understand the nitty gritty reasons why some workers decide to strike.

There are many workers, NHS for example, that haven't had a pay rise that matches that of the railway for the past few years. So it's fair to say the railway have been lucky.

But there is always another choice. Find a new job. There seems to be a growing problem with workers thinking they are entitled to a pay rise... like it's their right. Yet the job hasn't hugely changed and many don't think of it from the company point of view. If the job hasn't changed, why should you get paid more? If you want more money, find a new job... better paid version of what you already do. But that's right, West Coast workers are already among the highest paid for their roles, compared with other TOCs.

But there is always another choice. Find a new job.

Ah yes, that attitude again. It is like on the more militant cycling forums those that say "if you don't like traffic congestion or the cost of motoring, ride a bicycle". For every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.

If it were that simple that is what people would do. Unfortunately the days when someone could quit their job and find another next week are long gone. Quitting your job involves significant risk, the consequences potentially being very bad if the risk doesn't pay off. Once someone is out of employment they still have bills/mortgage to pay and dependents to take care of, that doesn't all stop whilst they are looking for alternative employment. Not to mention the ageism that exists that reduces more mature employees of finding a new job. Those who trot out the over-simplistic "find another job" line know all this, and can say it because they know it either isn't an option or is too risky. We are fortunate in the UK that unemployment benefits make changing jobs less risky, by providing a temporary safety net in the transition process.

 

[pt_mad]

Exactly as the poster said above. The answer should not be to expect an employee to quit their job because of something unfair that an employer has done to them. If that were the case, what chance of happiness would anyone have?

If employers were free to act unfairly, and any employees who have a geivience are told to just quit the job, what a shambolic state of affairs it would be. And this is the case far too often in the private sector.
Do we not want workers rights in the UK? If workers rights reduce we will all suffer. And nobody is an exception, unless they live a life of leisure. Some high paid directors etc (in any industries, and/or politicians) might think they themselves and their families will be ok if workers rights reduce further, but the hand could eventually fall on them, with all the lack of job security, and they could be either 'too old', institutionalised or find themselves forced to take a manual job which they have never had to do and would find it a huge shock and would soon wish back those workers rights.

The poster above was right about avoiding a race to the bottom.

Only yesterday, Newsnight (post budget ) reported that in 2023, average real time wages are still expected to be at the same levels they were in 2008, taking into account inflation.
This is dreadful, and all it causes is a cost of living crisis.

Remember that a below inflation rise is essentially a pay cut.