trainophile
Established Member
As per the title, that’s a new one on me. On the 1640 from GLC.
Is this a one-off for some reason?
Is this a one-off for some reason?
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VTWC Glasgow to Euston calling at Motherwell
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It's a booked stop.
No; Virgin Trains have been serving Motherwell for a great many years now.
Express to London:
0645
0743
1655 (your train)
Towards Birmingham:
0605
Express from London:
1657
1730
1830
From Birmigham:
1115
For whatever reason, there is no afternoon service from Birmingham back to Motherwell. There is also no morning service from London calling at Motherwell. I have no idea if there is actually any call for either, though.
TransPennine Express provide quite a few more long-distance services to Motherwell too, to and from Manchester Airport.
Express to London:
0645
0743
1655 (your train)
Towards Birmingham:
0605
Express from London:
1657
1730
1830
From Birmigham:
1115
For whatever reason, there is no afternoon service from Birmingham back to Motherwell. There is also no morning service from London calling at Motherwell. I have no idea if there is actually any call for either, though.
TransPennine Express provide quite a few more long-distance services to Motherwell too, to and from Manchester Airport.
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Esker-pades
Established Member
It does seem slightly odd. All other southbound services run in the morning. Why this one in the afternoon?
Indeed, and BR "Inter-City" etc prior to that!
I'm sure some assessment will have been made re demand for a Motherwell stop at that time of day. There may also be some requirement in the franchise agreement?
trainophile
Established Member
Fancy that! I must have never been on this particular service before.
I didn’t realise how far from Glasgow Motherwell is. Always thought it was a suburb. Learn new things every day!
I didn’t realise how far from Glasgow Motherwell is. Always thought it was a suburb. Learn new things every day!
Esker-pades
Established Member
That's probably the most reasonable explanation. If I had more time I'd try and find the documents.
That and the morning stops are done in 'marginal time', i.e. services on their first journey of the day south. So it doesn't squeeze the turnround time after a northbound journey from Euston.
Vice-versa the evening northbound stops.
Its only 15 minutes on these trains to Motherwell.
see quite a few use these services , was pick up set down before
I wouldn't suggest to a "Motherwellian" that Motherwell is suburb of Glasgow if I were you!
causton
Established Member
Au contraire, people of Watford, Potters Bar, etc all claim to live in London and take great offence when you say "but you're in Hertfordshire"!!!I wouldn't suggest to a "Motherwellian" that Motherwell is suburb of Glasgow if I were you!
snookertam
Member
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Motherwell is a long established stop on long distance services from Glasgow Central. I think it's most likely to do with it's role as a hub for Lanarkshire, saving the need to travel into the city first. I'm pretty sure in the past the majority of England-bound services would have stopped there, Virgin west coast actually drastically cut back calls within the last decade or so.
Most XC services to the East Coast via Edinburgh also call there, and will sometimes terminate there during disruption or engineering works.
Most XC services to the East Coast via Edinburgh also call there, and will sometimes terminate there during disruption or engineering works.
Class 170101
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Weren't these stops added to WCML services after the ECML mostly withdrew their Glasgow to Kings Cross services (XC operated in lieu instead but not to London)?
adrock1976
Established Member
Ideally what is needed is for the calls at Motherwell and Watford Junction that were cut at the December 2008 timetable change to be reinstated so as to provide better connectivity.
A friend of mine used to get the day train between Motherwell and Watford Junction, which was handy for a Lanark - Rickmansworth journey. My friend could simply park the car at Motherwell. When the calls got cut, my friend tried the option of driving to Carlisle (so as to avoid the two doublebacks at Glasgow and London) but the train had been cancelled. Now my friend drives the whole way, sharing the driving with one of their family members.
A friend of mine used to get the day train between Motherwell and Watford Junction, which was handy for a Lanark - Rickmansworth journey. My friend could simply park the car at Motherwell. When the calls got cut, my friend tried the option of driving to Carlisle (so as to avoid the two doublebacks at Glasgow and London) but the train had been cancelled. Now my friend drives the whole way, sharing the driving with one of their family members.
Motherwell to Watford Junction can be done with one easy enough change at Milton Keynes Central on the 0605, on the 1324 changing at Manchester Piccadilly and again on the 1655 changing at Milton Keynes Central.
Are those really insufficient for the Motherwell to Watford Junction market? All three offer pretty sensible journey times, and only one change of trains.
Are those really insufficient for the Motherwell to Watford Junction market? All three offer pretty sensible journey times, and only one change of trains.
Except that Watford Junction is an interchange point for a lot of other places, including the LO system and direct WLL services without the need to visit zone 1.
No - as stated earlier on in the thread, there have always been Motherwell stops on WCML services.
Esker-pades
Established Member
With what effect on the end-to-end journey time? With what effect on the timetable as a whole? The XX:30 path from London Euston cannot stop anywhere on the southern section as it will have the XX:33 to Liverpool breathing down its back (see this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ime-street-services-from-10-june-2019.178077/ ). In the other direction, it arrives at XX:10, with an XX:14 service from Birmingham a path afterwards. That's without considering the paths through all the other WCML bottlenecks.
Motherwell to Watford Junction is a small market in comparison to Scotland to London. Now that TPE have added in Motherwell stops, one doesn't have to double back.
adrock1976
Established Member
It is still very tricky to get to Watford Junction from points north of Preston, no matter how it is dressed up as.
Yes? And so what? The West London line connections are just as good from Milton Keynes Central. 3 trains a day is sufficient for the people making Motherwell to DC line stations surely...
Are you claiming the three options I've pointed out don't exist or are irrelevant then?
adrock1976
Established Member
A detour via Birmingham is still required and is still not much better than driving, no matter how you dress the change points up as.
Only one of those goes via Birmingham. I don't see how on earth that makes a difference anyway if the journey time is competitive. But such facts plainly do not fit in with your convenience.
Well, I would not be amused if I ended up with a double-back, especially if it meant two tickets. Doubly so if that meant having to deal with London Euston; also the DC lines lead onto the rest of the Overground network (saving a visit to Euston).
1. The journey oppourtunies I mentioned do not involve doubling back
2. For a journey from Motherwell to Watford Junction via Glasgow, via London or indeed via both if desired, there is no need to buy more than one ticket.
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