VXC 2 Voyager/Super Voyager units...

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AJP

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Im not :? Ive seen them on shorter lenght trains eg Newcastle-Bristol as well as long ones to Penzance,.

Sorry for helping you LAD <(
 

RJ

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When I was at Reading a double Voyager pulled in and reversed, heading for Southampton. Probably from Manchester. Can a Voyager work with a Super Voyager?
Out of interest, why are there 8/10 car VT posts at East Croydon? There are NEVER any long Voyagers.
 

Andrew

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I said:
Generally

generally
adv
1. usually: in most cases or circumstances

And yes, a 221 can work with a 220.

Re Reading: Doubled up units generaly don't work to Reading beacause doubles have to take up a through platform. Terminating ones normally use Platform 7 which can't take 2 sets. Ones for Bournemouth/Southampton/wherever normally use Platform 3 which also can't take a double. That's AIUI.
 

Craig

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Generally on the longer distance services. They sometimes couple up units if one is running late, or during engineerings works (i.e. when running via the S&C) so they don't require two paths.

The exception to this are services that stop at short stations such as Chester-le-Street, these must be one unit or the train must omit the station.
 

Mojo

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At Bristol, every Saturday and Sunday, most Northbound services I see are formed of 2 units, with most Southbound Services One Unit.
 

AJP

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joea1 said:
When I was at Reading a double Voyager pulled in and reversed, heading for Southampton. Probably from Manchester. Can a Voyager work with a Super Voyager?
Out of interest, why are there 8/10 car VT posts at East Croydon? There are NEVER any long Voyagers.

Ive seen it many times 8)
 

RJ

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Andrew said:
I said:
Generally

generally
adv
1. usually: in most cases or circumstances

Erm, where did that come from? My post made no reference to yours :roll:.



Here's one.
 

Techniquest

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Seen plenty of doubled-up Voyagers. It depends a bit on location of units, predicted loadings, unit availability, services being run...

As Mojo reports, weekends commonly sees doubled-up Voyagers in Bristol. Still doesn't stop VXC sending 221115 down to Bristol when I'm there to see it. Or Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Crewe, Carlisle...
 

ChrisCooper

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Just going back to 220s and 221s operating together, this is quite common, producing 9 coach trains. When running like this though, the 221 is unable to tilt, and speeds are restricted to normal, none tilt speeds.
 

Techniquest

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390 tilt around the WCML south of Crewe and before Rugby was quite impressive when I did it. Didn't notice it unless you were actually looking, felt well and everything. Best thing about the 390s that, the tilt.
 

Techniquest

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joea1 said:
No....Where would they stop?

New Street, Wolverhampton, Stafford, Crewe, Manchester, unsure of any others, platform lengths aren't exactly things I note when visiting stations.

Would seem there isn't enough units for such operations anyway. Pity, would provide the needed capacity on long-distance routes running through key destinations such as New Street at peak times.
 

voyagerdude220

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The 1V53 10:10 Glasgow to Penzance definately used to be booked as an 8-car set, but it rarely produces a double set anyway.

I also know that the 09:30 Penzance to Glasgow Central sometimes has another 220 or 221 added to the single unit from Penzance, at Plymouth.

As for weekends, I allways see doubles en-route to the S&C, and the situation is totally the opposite than normal weekdays- Mainly doubles, with the odd single unit. (But it's likely to be because of the diversionary work, reducing through services.)

I rarely see "Supermarkets", but I did see 221120+ 221 107 form the 10:10 Glasgow to Penzance, coming away from the S&C last Saturday (14th).

As for 15-coach services- I did see a story a couple of years ago about a 16-car test run in the North East, formed of 4x220s.

The RAIL magazine had a comment a while ago from Chris Green, (When he was in charge of VXC) saying that it was possible that 220/221s could be extended to six cariages (their origiinal size, hence coaches A-F) , but I personally think it's unlikely.
 

voyagerdude220

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FGWFan said:
6-carriage 220s and 7-carriage 221s would be more ideal...But hey! That's something that features in my ideal world, far far away...

We can dream...

Mine would also include 143s being extinct (or just moved somewhere else.. maybe France? They might jack in the channel tunnel though ;) ) :lol:
 

ChrisCooper

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FGWFan said:
Never experienced a 221 tilting anyway! Don't think I'm missing much anyway.

Has anyone heard of the 15-car Voyager runs proposed in 2004 and 2005?

I can't think of many places where they could stop. The longest normal platforms (excluding those at places like Gloucester and Cambridge where there are two platforms joined together), are for 12 coach trains made up of 20m coaches, giving a length of around 240m, wheras a single 4 car Voyager is about 140m long, so a 12 coach set, with 3 4 car Voyagers, would over 400m. A pair of 5 car Super Voyagers is actually about the length of a 12 car train formed of "standard length" 20m coaches. Even a Regional Eurostar is only 320m long, and at least they have SDO. A conventional Eurostar is around 395m long, so is the only thing that comes close. In both cases though, around 50m at each end is the powercar and the power section of the MSO. Looking at a Quail (no. 4, Midlands and North West) map, which gives the number of carriages per platform based on 20m coaches, a 15 car Voyager, which would need the platform to be able to take at least 20 20m coaches, could just about fit Euston P1 and 15, Nottingham P1 and P3, Rugby P1 and 2, Crewe P6 (Down only) and P12 and that is about all I can find. Significantly, they couldn't call at Birmingham New Street, and infact only one of those stations I have found they could call at is on the main XC network (Crewe). Most of those would be pushing it anyway, especially without SDO. In a lot of cases, you'd be fowling the points at one or both ends of the station aswell. Also, for a 3 coach train you would need most of the crew members duplicated 3 times (shop attendant, first class attendants, and the conductor, unless you wanted loads of fare dodging). Their is also the issue of whether any route actually need that sort of capacity (remember, even in terms of busy commuter routes, we're talking equivalent of a 20 coach EMU). In other words, I don't think it's going to happen.
 

yorkie

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It's a waste of resources to run 2x Voyagers together, let alone 3!

It would make more sense for Virgin to have HSTs, as originally planned. Don't forget it was the SRA who stopped them.

There is a shortage of Voyagers at the moment, which is why the use of 2xVoyagers is rare on weekdays.
 

Andrew

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yorkie said:
It's a waste of resources to run 2x Voyagers together, let alone 3!

Naturally the railway nowadays should never try and *improve* capacity - I can't begin to comprehend why they should even try when their business has grown something like 60%!

As for HSTs - I thought they were planned between Paddington and Birmingham and so wouldn't have normally had an effect to/from the west of England (Bristol/Plymouth) which seems to be where doubled voyagers are most frequent.
 

Guinness

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I've seen doubled up Voyagers many times. If you want to get one go down to New Street. :)

SRA are complete and utter [email protected] After the Passenger boom of XC Virgin did offer to acquire an additional car for Voyager trains however the SRA stopped this most likely under the Governments rail cut policy.....
 

Techniquest

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yorkie said:
It's a waste of resources to run 2x Voyagers together, let alone 3!

It would make more sense for Virgin to have HSTs, as originally planned. Don't forget it was the SRA who stopped them.

There is a shortage of Voyagers at the moment, which is why the use of 2xVoyagers is rare on weekdays.

Interesting reminder that on the SRA stopping the HSTs with Virgin. Ever since I found that out, I hated the SRA with a passion, having the same dislike/hatred for the DfT at this time too. Can't see things improving any time soon.

But at least Virgin have the sense at the moment to hire in a HST from MML due to Voyagers being OOU, instead of just cancelling the services the OOU Voyagers would use.
 

Julian G

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'The West London Line Group' hates the SRA, a lot, I really mean A LOT!!!
if it wasn't for that dreadful RUS :x
 

AlexS

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Last year 15 car Voyagers ran into New St because of some engineering thing, they took off one unit there and had it work back to where it came from, and then had the remaining 2 run on to their destination - I believe it was a Sunday, and the trains were to save on the cut number of paths.

As for 2 Voyagers running together, one of Virgins favourite tricks is to run the train to New St, then take a unit off and send it back, and make everyone in it attempt to get in the remaining unit. They operate to Bournemouth generally, and occasionally down to Penzance.
 

Max

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AlexS said:
As for 2 Voyagers running together, one of Virgins favourite tricks is to run the train to New St, then take a unit off and send it back, and make everyone in it attempt to get in the remaining unit.

Surely passengers should be told about this before Birmingham :?

This reminds me of when I was at Hull. I was catching the first Hull Trains service of the day, and typically, there were two 222 units in on the same platform, because they had travelled together to Hull ECS.

It was about 5 minutes until the service was about to depart, and the front one was started up, lights on, whilst the rear unit was fully shut down. However, there were several passengers waiting to board the rear unit! When I told them that it was the front train only, they all dashed up the platform :lol:

Normally there is an announcement at Hull saying something like 'please travel in the front portion of the train only', but this was not given out on this occassion. Just shows how nessecary it really is :)
 
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