W/S down to 3 a day from December

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Geezertronic

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Some of the comments on here are quiet harsh considering that WSMR are a non subsidised Private Train Operator.
You really need to read other threads before making a statement like that. WSMR has numerous threads where they have been praised, a couple of threads have even had posts claiming to be from the WSMR MD (and there is no reason to assume that it is not him or a representative).
 
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TDK

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You really need to read other threads before making a statement like that. WSMR has numerous threads where they have been praised, a couple of threads have even had posts claiming to be from the WSMR MD (and there is no reason to assume that it is not him or a representative).
Ben is just responding to this thread and rightly so, if you look at some of the comments on this thread and read comments from the same people on other threads they are conflicting, it always seems when something changes either for the better or for the worse certain people will jump on the band wagon and put in their bit, WSMR get a lot more praise than bad comments. Everyone within the company from the cleaners to the MD work extremely hard for the company and I am sure the MD's decision is the correct one for the interest of the company and therefore for it's customers in the long term.

WSMR could have never predicted the economic down turn and the failure of the UK and Euopean banking and monitory systems or oppoosition from other TOC's, maybe if WSMR started now it would be running the service now proposed by the MD, lets hope the company flourishes as everyone has worked hard to set it up and keep it going.
 

Pumbaa

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WSMR could have never predicted the economic down turn and the failure of the UK and Euopean banking and monitory systems or oppoosition from other TOC's, maybe if WSMR started now it would be running the service now proposed by the MD, lets hope the company flourishes as everyone has worked hard to set it up and keep it going.
And that's part of the deal of being a business. And plus, while the business proposition arguably has holes in it and may continue to do so, W+S get more praise than criticism and this is reflected not only across the forum but wider.

Personally, I think W+S is the best example of OA we have at the moment., ORCATS isn't a high priority for the business case as it stands, and personally I would object to W+S being able to call at other stations such as New Street or Wolves fully and then extract money from other operators who (in theory) return money to the state. OA is based upon being completely free from Govt intervention on the railways, I don't see why they should rely on money that should be going to franchised TOCs. If they can't, then they shouldn't exist and exit the market, as a company in any other market would do.
 

TDK

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and then extract money from other operators who (in theory) return money to the state.
All companies return money to the state as by their employees and the company itself paying tax, TOC's get grants from central government but do not pay into the state what they extract where as an OA operator does so (in theory)OA operators could be paying more to the state than TOC's, correct me if I am wrong!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
and personally I would object to W+S being able to call at other stations such as New Street or Wolves fully and then extract money from other operators .
(in theory) why should an OA company not extract money from a route if they operate on it, they pay the same track access costs and are supplying a service to the public, I thought both major parties supported the creation of jobs and opposition to business,is this why the bus companies and the railway was privatised in the first place?
 

tbtc

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Everyone within the company from the cleaners to the MD work extremely hard for the company
See, this is one thing that irks me about WMSR - there's this constant praise for how hard the staff work, and how many jobs they've created and how many jobs are at risk...

...which is true, but the same could be said of any TOC, and I find the implication that other TOCs aren't creating jobs and don't have dedicated staff a little odd.

Its surely a lot easier to get good customer satisfaction and easier to be a friendly member of staff when you are dealing with a leisure crowd (who had no equivalent service a few years ago) - the stressed equivalent staff working for the likes of Cross Country do wonders, but nobody seems to praise them.

Not having a go at you TDK; I just find the contrast between the praise for WMSR (etc) and lack of equivalent comments about other operators a bit frustrating.

Its like a fairy tale to some people
 

anthony263

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See, this is one thing that irks me about WMSR - there's this constant praise for how hard the staff work, and how many jobs they've created and how many jobs are at risk...

...which is true, but the same could be said of any TOC, and I find the implication that other TOCs aren't creating jobs and don't have dedicated staff a little odd.

Its surely a lot easier to get good customer satisfaction and easier to be a friendly member of staff when you are dealing with a leisure crowd (who had no equivalent service a few years ago) - the stressed equivalent staff working for the likes of Cross Country do wonders, but nobody seems to praise them.

Not having a go at you TDK; I just find the contrast between the praise for WMSR (etc) and lack of equivalent comments about other operators a bit frustrating.

Its like a fairy tale to some people
I agree with the comments which you have made, luckily I have met a lot of staff at various rail companies who have provided good customer service including a few at Crosscountry during the first time i used them after they were taken over by arriva
 

tbtc

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I agree with the comments which you have made, luckily I have met a lot of staff at various rail companies who have provided good customer service including a few at Crosscountry during the first time i used them after they were taken over by arriva
There's a lot of great staff working at each TOC. If you can deal with hundreds of stressed people on a delayed Voyager (with little idea of whether your train will make connections for passengers etc) then you deserve the kind of praise these WMSR staff are getting
 

benwilliams

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All train Operators deserved to be praised for their achievements and for their customer service, however WSMR are a real example where all of the staff really do care for their passengers.

The on board staff all work hard to help every individual passenger, and often walk down the train to check and make sure the passengers are ok.

What i love about Wrexham and Shropshire is the fact that they seem to take the extra time to serve individual customers, eg. they will prepare meals for the passengers and take the time to present the food and serve it as it would be done in a restraunt, even if you are sat in standard class. You get full at seat service with wsmr, and they really do care about the passengers.

The fact that every train has staff dedicated to looking after the customer no matter what time the train runs really makes you feel like you are traveling on a real train service.

For eg. There was a young lad on Chirk Station with his mum who had come down to see the trains, the WSMR train had pulled in and when the train had left he stood on the platform with a chocolate muffin and a great big grin from one side of his face to the other. This type of service wouldn't be found with any other TOC, and really shows how the staff appreciate and care for every one of their customers.

WSMR are constantly trying to improve their service, and really do deserve all the praise they can get as they seem to have suffered so much with threats from other TOC'S such as VT and ATW in the past.

As well as this WSMR work with the community and really show their community spirit by working with local bakers, butchers, milkmen and grocers and working with individual groups like Chirk Summer Fete, local railway groups, as well as sponsoring societys and local businesses

They are a real TOC who care!
 

ukrob

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What i love about Wrexham and Shropshire is the fact that they seem to take the extra time to serve individual customers, eg. they will prepare meals for the passengers and take the time to present the food and serve it as it would be done in a restraunt, even if you are sat in standard class. You get full at seat service with wsmr, and they really do care about the passengers.

The fact that every train has staff dedicated to looking after the customer no matter what time the train runs really makes you feel like you are traveling on a real train service.
And they wonder why they are not making money.
 

anthony263

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All train Operators deserved to be praised for their achievements and for their customer service, however WSMR are a real example where all of the staff really do care for their passengers.

The on board staff all work hard to help every individual passenger, and often walk down the train to check and make sure the passengers are ok.

What i love about Wrexham and Shropshire is the fact that they seem to take the extra time to serve individual customers, eg. they will prepare meals for the passengers and take the time to present the food and serve it as it would be done in a restraunt, even if you are sat in standard class. You get full at seat service with wsmr, and they really do care about the passengers.

The fact that every train has staff dedicated to looking after the customer no matter what time the train runs really makes you feel like you are traveling on a real train service.

For eg. There was a young lad on Chirk Station with his mum who had come down to see the trains, the WSMR train had pulled in and when the train had left he stood on the platform with a chocolate muffin and a great big grin from one side of his face to the other. This type of service wouldn't be found with any other TOC, and really shows how the staff appreciate and care for every one of their customers.

WSMR are constantly trying to improve their service, and really do deserve all the praise they can get as they seem to have suffered so much with threats from other TOC'S such as VT and ATW in the past.

As well as this WSMR work with the community and really show their community spirit by working with local bakers, butchers, milkmen and grocers and working with individual groups like Chirk Summer Fete, local railway groups, as well as sponsoring societys and local businesses

They are a real TOC who care!


Your comments make me look forward to my trip on wrexham & shropshire next wednesday.

Anyone know what meals they have available for first class passengers by the way?
 

merlodlliw

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Your comments make me look forward to my trip on wrexham & shropshire next wednesday. end quote



Good Morning Anthony,
While you are within the County of Wrexham,visit the magnificent Telford Pontcysyllte Aqueduct, now a World Heritage site about 5 miles away or 2 miles from Ruabon interchange station, this pre rail structure is crossed by hundreds of thousands of tourists every year both on foot & barge, within sight of the Chirk rail/canal Aqueduct , ,another couple of miles brings you to the All Year round tourist resort of Llangollen home of the famous Llan railway, just two of the many tourist attractions up here with a transport theme. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontcysyllte_Aqueduct

I am sure you will enjoy the W/S experience,and with luck you may have class 67 "Pontcysyllte Aqueduct/Dyfrbont Pontcysyllte" powering the train
 

robertclark125

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(in theory) why should an OA company not extract money from a route if they operate on it, they pay the same track access costs and are supplying a service to the public, I thought both major parties supported the creation of jobs and opposition to business,is this why the bus companies and the railway was privatised in the first place?[/QUOTE]

Not quite true. OA operators pay less charges than franchised operators. This was ruled legal after the court case by GNER versus Grand Central Rail in 2007.

What you may be thinknig of is the rolling stock charges. The Competition Commission have ruled that the discriminatory clause, wherby small operators, i.e. Open Access, get to lease rolling stock cheaper than franchised oeprators, must be removed, and OAs must pay the same charges. It was also because of this that GC couldn't set up its own ROSCO.

Regarding the feelnigs about W/S being gone in a few years, I think that perhaps some form of intergration with Chiltern is more probably likely. The W/S name may vanish, but the service remains, albeit Chiltern Intercity?
 

dk1

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It all just seems a bit over the top for such a small train. DVT carrying around fresh air, all the staff & organisation that a full restaurant has, the fact that it doesnt really tap into a large rail market & has suffered very poor journey times. I have never had great problems in finding a seat & the 10.17 from Marylebone would frequently leave with just staff in 1st class. I know it seems wonderful to have such customer service but unless you charge Royal Scotsman fares it cannot be substainable.
 

TDK

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There's a lot of great staff working at each TOC. If you can deal with hundreds of stressed people on a delayed Voyager (with little idea of whether your train will make connections for passengers etc) then you deserve the kind of praise these WMSR staff are getting
Yes, agreed, I have worked for 3 different TOC's and the staff are generally all good, bur upper management are certainly not, the Only TOC I have worked for with a half decent MD was Wales and West, unfortunately most of the TOC's upper management have not got a clue on how to treat their staff giving many of the staff a "they don't care so why should I" attitude, this is where WSMR are totally different as their management staff really do care about their staff on the ground 100%
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Whats the 10.17 from MYB.
Obviously he is out of touch Ben and quoting from an old timetable makes me wonder whether his observations are true or second hand.
 

Railjet

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Has there ever been a regular scheduled diesel-hauled service between Marylebone and Birmingham before?
 

dk1

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Obviously he is out of touch Ben and quoting from an old timetable makes me wonder whether his observations are true or second hand.
Dont do second hand. Was an observation last year at Marylebone whilst catching the 10.20?? to Bicester North ;)
 
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bignosemac

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There was a 1017 WS service running from Marylebone last year, according to the National Rail Timetable, so just right for dk1 to watch depart before boarding his 1020 Chiltern to Bicester.
 

TDK

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There was a 1017 WS service running from Marylebone last year, according to the National Rail Timetable, so just right for dk1 to watch depart before boarding his 1020 Chiltern to Bicester.
It was on the timetable as the path is still available but it didn't run, I will find out the date the last 10.17 ran, it may have been last year but that doesn't affect the reason why WSMR are cutting current services, the reason why the 10.17 was cut was for the reasons mentioned by dk.
 

Skip 10

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It was on the timetable as the path is still available but it didn't run, I will find out the date the last 10.17 ran, it may have been last year but that doesn't affect the reason why WSMR are cutting current services, the reason why the 10.17 was cut was for the reasons mentioned by dk.
10:17 went when the 1st long lodges started and that was before Magnum left and he's been at South Eastern for over 12 months..........

As for all these comments about cost's, someone in the know told me that its cheaper tho hire what we have at the moment than the 180's.
 

Polarbear

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Of the open access operators, WMSR was the last to get started, launching it's services just before the recession took hold. I expect that the original business plan would have made more sense had the recession not happened, nor been so deep. I recall threads on here & other forums around the time of WMSR's launch that inferred that the original 5 trains each way on weekdays seemed somewhat ambitious which has been borne out by experience.!

Whilst there isn't a huge market from the Wrexham end, Shrewsbury & Telford should both generate sufficient passenger numbers for a few trains to/from London each day. The former as a railhead for a large part of Shropshire & mid Wales & the latter due to the number of business located there.

As I see it, the main problem for WMSR is the journey time. The majority of customers travelling on business between Telford & London (who are the ones that pay the premium fares) will consider journey time over comfort almost every time. They just want to get from A-B as quickly as possible, often want to work whilt on the move & aren't too fussed about having a full meal en-route. Using that logic, most business types will elect to use Virgin, either by a change at Wolves or fast car to the nearest Virgin train service.

There is also a market for leisure travellers who dislike changing trains and WMSR provides a good service for this market, who generally are not so concerned about journey times. However, this market is never going to pay the way for the company as these cusomers generally travel off peak, often on railcard discounted or advance purchase tickets.

I've used WMSR a few times & have always been impressed by the excellent service. As other posters have said though, this on it's own is not enough to balance the books. It's also expensive to operate with 67's & MK3's and as nice as the refurbished MK3's are, those costs still have to be met fully through the farebox as WMSR is not a franchised operator. The on board service also has to be paid for, as well as the staff wages.

In my opinion, additional calls in the West Midlands are something of a red herring. For the few trains WMSR run each day,(even when it was 5 each way on weekdays), the West Coast franchise is hardly going to be troubled by this. Personally, I would concentrate on Tame Bridge as a railhead for the West Midlands & continue to reduce journey times as much as possible. It's a pity that a chord could not be built so that WMSR services could access Snow Hill from the north & that way, a few of the pathing issues in the West Midlands may be avoided.

Personally, I would only run one or two trains each day from the Wrexham end (mainly for servicing and leisure market) & would concentrate resources between Shrewsbury and London. With reduced journey times, it should be possible to build up a decent niche market from Shropshire to London.

Given a faster journey time, WMSR should do well between Shropshire & London & I do wish it every success for the future. However, unless revenues rise & costs are controlled, the future doesn't bode well based on present circumstances.
 

benwilliams

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As I see it, the main problem for WMSR is the journey time. The majority of customers travelling on business between Telford & London (who are the ones that pay the premium fares) will consider journey time over comfort almost every time. They just want to get from A-B as quickly as possible, often want to work whilt on the move & aren't too fussed about having a full meal en-route. Using that logic, most business types will elect to use Virgin, either by a change at Wolves or fast car to the nearest Virgin train service.


Personally, I would concentrate on Tame Bridge as a railhead for the West Midlands & continue to reduce journey times as much as possible. It's a pity that a chord could not be built so that WMSR services could access Snow Hill from the north & that way, a few of the pathing issues in the West Midlands may be avoided.


Given a faster journey time, WMSR should do well between Shropshire & London & I do wish it every success for the future. .
What you have written is very Interesting.

I have done much research and spoken to many passengers who travel on board the Wrexham and Shropshire Train, and many Businesses are happy to pay for their staff to travel in First Class, as it is cheaper than the PEAK time Virgin Standard fare and because WSMR 1st Class includes a meal. Many of the Business customers say that they prefer to have a meal on the train as its easier than having to stop in london to grab a snack. As a result 1st class dining is very appealing to Business Customers and at £120 return walk on fare im not surprised.

I also agree with what you are saying about targetting Tamebridge. WSMR pick up many school and group parties from here, as Tamebridge is an easy to get to Location for Schools in the Birmingham, Walsall and surrounding areas. This is also a favourable station for many for linking up with the WSMR.

When the Evergreen 3 project is completed on the Chiltern Mainline the journey time should be reduced by around 25 minutes. I do agree with some people that travelling from SHR - MYB may seem like a long journey on the WSMR, however i would prefer to travel with them on a comfortable train and have a 15 -20 minute longer journey than i would having to change at stations such as Birmingham NS. The Bacon Baps are one of the best parts of Wrexham and Shropshire, as well as their much valued staff.



--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Obviously he is out of touch Ben and quoting from an old timetable makes me wonder whether his observations are true or second hand.[/QUOTE]

I think somepeople just like to Moan loads. :lol:
 
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Skip 10

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What you have written is very Interesting.

I have done much research and spoken to many passengers who travel on board the Wrexham and Shropshire Train, and many Businesses are happy to pay for their staff to travel in First Class, as it is cheaper than the PEAK time Virgin Standard fare and because WSMR 1st Class includes a meal. Many of the Business customers say that they prefer to have a meal on the train as its easier than having to stop in london to grab a snack. As a result 1st class dining is very appealing to Business Customers and at £120 return walk on fare im not surprised.

I also agree with what you are saying about targetting Tamebridge. WSMR pick up many school and group parties from here, as Tamebridge is an easy to get to Location for Schools in the Birmingham, Walsall and surrounding areas. This is also a favourable station for many for linking up with the WSMR.

When the Evergreen 3 project is completed on the Chiltern Mainline the journey time should be reduced by around 25 minutes. I do agree with some people that travelling from SHR - MYB may seem like a long journey on the WSMR, however i would prefer to travel with them on a comfortable train and have a 15 -20 minute longer journey than i would having to change at stations such as Birmingham NS. The Bacon Baps are one of the best parts of Wrexham and Shropshire, as well as their much valued staff.
Ben in all honesty Tamebridge is never going to be a gold mine, as you say its popular with groups with severely discounted tickets. Its the same with the £1 tickets from Tamebridge about 18 months ago. The trains where full and standing over the easter but very few if any have returned to travel with WSMR since. I do feel that a push should be made in other areas though and alot of the marketing is soley directed at the Telford area however the budget says only one area can be targeted at a time. The 1st class is a bargin at £120 return compared to the service that is offered with Virgin, you cant even compare the final product, there are pleanty of people paying alot more to travel with Virgin so the market is there but away needs to be found to tap into this affectively. At £35 for a single in 1st class its daylight robbery. This is one of the problems though, people are getting a very high standard of travel and comfort at cheap and cheerfull prices.
 

TDK

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Ben in all honesty Tamebridge is never going to be a gold mine, as you say its popular with groups with severely discounted tickets. Its the same with the £1 tickets from Tamebridge about 18 months ago. The trains where full and standing over the easter but very few if any have returned to travel with WSMR since. I do feel that a push should be made in other areas though and alot of the marketing is soley directed at the Telford area however the budget says only one area can be targeted at a time. The 1st class is a bargin at £120 return compared to the service that is offered with Virgin, you cant even compare the final product, there are pleanty of people paying alot more to travel with Virgin so the market is there but away needs to be found to tap into this affectively. At £35 for a single in 1st class its daylight robbery. This is one of the problems though, people are getting a very high standard of travel and comfort at cheap and cheerfull prices.
If the service did call at Wolverhampton then up the stour line through New Street to Coventry this would cut 15 minutes at least of the journey time, paired with the competion of the evergreen 3 project there could be 35 minutes off the journey time from Shrewsbury, Tame Bridge Parkway was a second choice as far as I believe as WSMR were not permitted to pick up at Wolverhampton, if it's a quicker service businees customers want this must be the way forward for 2012
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
.

When the Evergreen 3 project is completed on the Chiltern Mainline the journey time should be reduced by around 25 minutes. I do agree with some people that travelling from SHR - MYB may seem like a long journey on the WSMR, however i would prefer to travel with them on a comfortable train and have a 15 -20 minute longer journey than i would having to change at stations such as Birmingham NS. The Bacon Baps are one of the best parts of Wrexham and Shropshire, as well as their much valued staff.
Where do you get the 25 minutes from Ben?, more like 15 from the EG 3, another 4 or 5 from the Shrewsbury to Oxley upgrade, possible 2 or 3 from the future upgrade from Wrexham to Shrewsbury, the only way of really reducing the journey time is finding better paths and routes.
 

The Planner

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Where do you get the 25 minutes from Ben?, more like 15 from the EG 3, another 4 or 5 from the Shrewsbury to Oxley upgrade, possible 2 or 3 from the future upgrade from Wrexham to Shrewsbury, the only way of really reducing the journey time is finding better paths and routes.
Im glad you got there first for that one, I seriously laughed out loud to it....

15 is asking a lot too. Its only south of Princes Risborough you are really going to gain. High Wycombe still stuffs you. I'll take a look at what you have got in the May 11 timetable.

4 to 5 for the Shrewsbury to Oxley is optimistic too, the classic "de-scope" has happened on that one. You should be odds on for 3 though but don't bet on a better path because of it though. Id put cash on you sitting at Wolves North twiddling your thumbs. Id start you later at Wrexham if it were me.
 
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