Wabtec to overhaul 40 class 158 units for Angel trains

[warwickshire]

Interesting read on www.railjournal.com about Wabtec overhauling and refurbishing 40 class 158 units for transport for Wales and east Midlands railways starting from June this year. Nice to hear especially as it's in place to at least to 2022. Also wonder what future plans are in store for these units now. Hopefully transport for Wales and east Midlands railways will use them for many years to come.

https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/wabtec-to-overhaul-40-class-158s-for-angel-trains/

Wabtec to overhaul 40 class 158 DMUs for Angel Trains
The work is split between fleets in service with two operators. Work on 24 two-car vehicles operated by Transport for Wales, which require a full vehicle and bogie C4 overhaul, will begin in August 2020 and will be completed by December 2022. The 16 two-car vehicles operated by East Midlands Railway require a C4 bogie overhaul with work set to start in June and conclude by November 2021.

Wabtec will overhaul the trains at its E2 workshop in Doncaster....

The work is split between fleets in service with two operators. Work on 24 two-car vehicles operated by Transport for Wales, which require a full vehicle and bogie C4 overhaul, will begin in August 2020 and will be completed by December 2022. The 16 two-car vehicles operated by East Midlands Railway require a C4 bogie overhaul with work set to start in June and conclude by November 2021.

Wabtec will overhaul the trains at its E2 workshop in Doncaster....

 

[JonathanH]

Interesting read on www.railjournal.com about Wabtec overhauling and refurbishing 40 class 158 units for transport for Wales and east Midlands railways starting from June this year. Nice to hear especially as it's in place to at least to 2022. Also wonder what future plans are in store for these units now. Hopefully transport for Wales and east Midlands railways will use them for many years to come.

https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/wabtec-to-overhaul-40-class-158s-for-angel-trains/

The work is split between fleets in service with two operators. Work on 24 two-car vehicles operated by Transport for Wales, which require a full vehicle and bogie C4 overhaul, will begin in August 2020 and will be completed by December 2022. The 16 two-car vehicles operated by East Midlands Railway require a C4 bogie overhaul with work set to start in June and conclude by November 2021.

Wabtec will overhaul the trains at its E2 workshop in Doncaster....

This is just "below the solebar work" isn't it?

 

[superkev]

Interesting read on www.railjournal.com about Wabtec overhauling and refurbishing 40 class 158 units for transport for Wales and east Midlands railways starting from June this year. Nice to hear especially as it's in place to at least to 2022. Also wonder what future plans are in store for these units now. Hopefully transport for Wales and east Midlands railways will use them for many years to come.

https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/wabtec-to-overhaul-40-class-158s-for-angel-trains/

The work is split between fleets in service with two operators. Work on 24 two-car vehicles operated by Transport for Wales, which require a full vehicle and bogie C4 overhaul, will begin in August 2020 and will be completed by December 2022. The 16 two-car vehicles operated by East Midlands Railway require a C4 bogie overhaul with work set to start in June and conclude by November 2021.

Wabtec will overhaul the trains at its E2 workshop in Doncaster....

I'm hoping someone has the skill to finally sort out the air con unreliability. Sadly I supect not.
K

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Aren't both of those fleets due to go off-lease in the next couple of years? Suppose they'll be good for another decade with Northern once they've been overhauled...

 

[Entertexthere]

Aren't both of those fleets due to go off-lease in the next couple of years? Suppose they'll be good for another decade with Northern once they've been overhauled...

The TFW fleet is supposed to go off lease by 2023, so I suspect that if they're doing an overhaul job then a few may be heading up to Northern (?)

 

[dgl]

I'm hoping someone has the skill to finally sort out the air con unreliability. Sadly I supect not.
K

Yes it's possible to sort out the air-con reliability relatively easily, replace the original air-con system with the Liebherr system in the SWT (an others) units.
The issue primarily with the original air-con units was that they were designed to use CFC's which were banned during? the build of the 158's and so non CFC refrigerant had to be used (hydrocarbon) which the air-con units weren't designed for and so it didn't work properly. I'm guessing ripping out the as built air-con system with a new one was seen as un-economical so they had to make do with the original units, albeit (I would guess) at reduced capacity/effectiveness.

 

[LowLevel]

Yes it's possible to sort out the air-con reliability relatively easily, replace the original air-con system with the Liebherr system in the SWT (an others) units.
The issue primarily with the original air-con units was that they were designed to use CFC's which were banned during? the build of the 158's and so non CFC refrigerant had to be used (hydrocarbon) which the air-con units weren't designed for and so it didn't work properly. I'm guessing ripping out the as built air-con system with a new one was seen as un-economical so they had to make do with the original units, albeit (I would guess) at reduced capacity/effectiveness.

It's still nowhere near as reliable or effective as on other trains and never will be with a 350 or 400hp engine. Along with the 166 the worst air con setup in the UK. Even the 1970s era Mk2 coaches are better if maintained correctly.

 

[43096]

It's still nowhere near as reliable or effective as on other trains and never will be with a 350 or 400hp engine. Along with the 166 the worst air con setup in the UK. Even the 1970s era Mk2 coaches are better if maintained correctly.

Your last sentence is the key one. There is a maintenance regime for the Liebherr kit that needs to be followed - SWT did and it showed. The other operators? Hmmmmm.

 

[LowLevel]

Your last sentence is the key one. There is a maintenance regime for the Liebherr kit that needs to be followed - SWT did and it showed. The other operators? Hmmmmm.

Even then it is still thoroughly prone to leaks from the maze of pipework you can't easily get to and it's general lack of capacity means it overloads at the drop of a hat - our systems are maintained by Liebherr and they vary between units - some are reliably very good and others just fail within days of being repaired because there's a pinhole leak in a pipe somewhere. The ancient micropack control system is also a significant weakness.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's still nowhere near as reliable or effective as on other trains and never will be with a 350 or 400hp engine. Along with the 166 the worst air con setup in the UK. Even the 1970s era Mk2 coaches are better if maintained correctly.

Nowhere near as bad as the 166. I have been on a 158 with working aircon, I have never, ever been on a 166 where it was working.

Given that they're not really InterCity units going forward, I'm not sure I wouldn't just replace the windows with ones fitted with hoppers and be done with it.

 

[43096]

Nowhere near as bad as the 166. I have been on a 158 with working aircon, I have never, ever been on a 166 where it was working.

Given that they're not really InterCity units going forward, I'm not sure I wouldn't just replace the windows with ones fitted with hoppers and be done with it.

Or fit the Chiltern air cooling that seems to work on their 165s?

 

[1179_Clee2]

Even then it is still thoroughly prone to leaks from the maze of pipework you can't easily get to and it's general lack of capacity means it overloads at the drop of a hat - our systems are maintained by Liebherr and they vary between units - some are reliably very good and others just fail within days of being repaired because there's a pinhole leak in a pipe somewhere. The ancient micropack control system is also a significant weakness.

That is the problem with the gas used in modern systems.
Scaled up to use as a comparison
R12 has molecules like footballs
R134a has molecules like tiny ball bearings
With a tiny pinhole R12 may not leak but R134a will, maybe a week, a month and a re gas will be required
It was the 1980's when R12 was no longer used, so 158's could have been designed to use R12 but are having to use R134a that leaks out

 

[cactustwirly]

Nowhere near as bad as the 166. I have been on a 158 with working aircon, I have never, ever been on a 166 where it was working.

Given that they're not really InterCity units going forward, I'm not sure I wouldn't just replace the windows with ones fitted with hoppers and be done with it.

I have, most times I've been on a 166 it has been working

 

[Bikeman78]

It's still nowhere near as reliable or effective as on other trains and never will be with a 350 or 400hp engine. Along with the 166 the worst air con setup in the UK. Even the 1970s era Mk2 coaches are better if maintained correctly.

I cannot ever recall getting onto a 158 or 166 on a hot day and finding the inside of the train to be a pleasant temperature. The Scots clearly have a sense of humour. Their units have signs that read something like "this train has been fitted with improved air conditioning." The one I saw was right next to one of the hopper windows which was open!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I cannot ever recall getting onto a 158 or 166 on a hot day and finding the inside of the train to be a pleasant temperature. The Scots clearly have a sense of humour. Their units have signs that read something like "this train has been fitted with improved air conditioning." The one I saw was right next to one of the hopper windows which was open!

In the mid 90s when they were new they (158s) worked. Were CFCs in use in this initial period, perhaps?

 

[43096]

In the mid 90s when they were new they (158s) worked. Were CFCs in use in this initial period, perhaps?

Believe that is this case. As often the case with such changes, the R-134a gas is less efficient than what went before, which contributes to the air conditioning problems.

 

[py_megapixel]

Nowhere near as bad as the 166. I have been on a 158 with working aircon, I have never, ever been on a 166 where it was working.

Despite this, the hopper windows are covered with stickers saying "The conductor will open this window in the unlikely event of air conditioning failure" (my bold, not theirs)

 

[LowLevel]

I cannot ever recall getting onto a 158 or 166 on a hot day and finding the inside of the train to be a pleasant temperature. The Scots clearly have a sense of humour. Their units have signs that read something like "this train has been fitted with improved air conditioning." The one I saw was right next to one of the hopper windows which was open!

Spending half of my life on 158s in usual circumstances I can assure you that some do indeed work very well but others are appalling. In all the years I've worked on them the very bad ones have at least been consistent!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Despite this, the hopper windows are covered with stickers saying "The conductor will open this window in the unlikely event of air conditioning failure" (my bold, not theirs)

Which I found very amusing when they were mostly being used on DOO trains.

Fortunately, my house key opens them.

 

[Parallel]

Despite this, the hopper windows are covered with stickers saying "The conductor will open this window in the unlikely event of air conditioning failure" (my bold, not theirs)

On one train, someone has gone through the carriage and crossed out 'un' with black marker pen...

I was on a 166 earlier this week (think it was Wednesday). Was an oven.

 

[Bikeman78]

Spending half of my life on 158s in usual circumstances I can assure you that some do indeed work very well but others are appalling. In all the years I've worked on them the very bad ones have at least been consistent!

The First North Western batch back in 2000 stand out in my mind as being particularly vile. And Central Trains of course.

 

[johnnychips]

Which I found very amusing when they were mostly being used on DOO trains.

Fortunately, my house key opens them.

That really made me laugh! Cheers!

 

[fgwrich]

I cannot ever recall getting onto a 158 or 166 on a hot day and finding the inside of the train to be a pleasant temperature. The Scots clearly have a sense of humour. Their units have signs that read something like "this train has been fitted with improved air conditioning." The one I saw was right next to one of the hopper windows which was open!

I've noticed that too - Most notably on the former Haymarket (now Corkerhill) sets where the Air Con seemed to be a bit of a gamble. The Inverness sets always seem to be fine though.

On one train, someone has gone though the carriage and crossed out 'un' with black marker pen...

I was on a 166 earlier this week (think it was Wednesday). Was an oven.

I rather noticed that too - Rather optimistically placed across all the GW Turbo Fleet - And most of the time I've seen the windows open (on both 166 & 165!).

I wonder how GWRs 158s have been, I flagged a rather cosy looking 2 car set at St Erth last spring on a reasonably warm day and you could hear the Liebherr system working at full load (probably not helped by GWRs decision to paint the roofs heat absorbing Matt Black).

 

[CM]

I cannot ever recall getting onto a 158 or 166 on a hot day and finding the inside of the train to be a pleasant temperature. The Scots clearly have a sense of humour. Their units have signs that read something like "this train has been fitted with improved air conditioning." The one I saw was right next to one of the hopper windows which was open!

The Class 334s have those stickers fitted to them even though it's pointless having the Air-Con on as the routes the 334s operate are mostly stop/start services with the doors being opened every few minutes at stations. Even worse is the fact that they've locked all the hoppers on them as well so if a unit does get too hot and the air-con isn't doing it's job you don't have the option of opening the windows.

 

[43096]

Even worse is the fact that they've locked all the hoppers on them as well so if a unit does get too hot and the air-con isn't doing it's job you don't have the option of opening the windows.

Conversely, if you have them left unlocked then you can guarantee that people will open them even when the aircon is working fine, which of course means that the system tries to cool half of Scotland thus defeating the whole point of having aircon in the first place.

 

[JonathanH]

Conversely, if you have them left unlocked then you can guarantee that people will open them even when the aircon is working fine, which of course means that the system tries to cool half of Scotland thus defeating the whole point of having aircon in the first place.

Worst thing is people running for the train on a hot day expecting the train to be a fridge and finding it isn't even though the air conditioning is working to some extent. They would then open the window for air and make matters worse for everyone else.

 

[CM]

Conversely, if you have them left unlocked then you can guarantee that people will open them even when the aircon is working fine, which of course means that the system tries to cool half of Scotland thus defeating the whole point of having aircon in the first place.

The doors opening and closing every few minutes at stations defeats the purpose of the air-con anyway regardless if people open the windows or not. The doors don't stay closed long enough for the air-con to have any effect.

 

[Bikeman78]

The doors opening and closing every few minutes at stations defeats the purpose of the air-con anyway regardless if people open the windows or not. The doors don't stay closed long enough for the air-con to have any effect.

Then the air con must be poor. Works fine on S stock in London and other metro systems around the world.

 

[RealTrains07]

Does this mean new livery application and/or refurbishment would take place while each unit is being overhauled?

(Obviously no interior refurbishment for the EMR ones though)

 

[Bikeman78]

Does this mean new livery application and/or refurbishment would take place while each unit is being overhauled?

(Obviously no interior refurbishment for the EMR ones though)

By the sound of it, this is a C4 exam, i.e. below floor level, so engines, bogies, transmission etc. C6 is bodywork and includes a repaint. I don't know how often 158s have a C4 but with roughly 180 of them it's probably similar to painting the Forth bridge.