Wag 2 67s

[kyrano]

not sure if there is a thread related to the new 67 diagrames for the 57s being taken off from December and the 67s are on the Cardiff Holyheads, can someone update on what the situation is thanks.

 

[jones_bangor]

not sure if there is a thread related to the new 67 diagrames for the 57s being taken off from December and the 67s are on the Cardiff Holyheads, can someone update on what the situation is thanks.

No one really knows, but it looks like the 57s will still be on WAG 1 until early in the New Year.

I think March has been mentioned as the start for Class 67 and DVT "push-pull" operation.

Not much detail on the coaching stock or which DVTs will be used.

 

[Gareth Marston]

No one really knows, but it looks like the 57s will still be on WAG 1 until early in the New Year.

I think March has been mentioned as the start for Class 67 and DVT "push-pull" operation.

Not much detail on the coaching stock or which DVTs will be used.

Everything transport wise in Wales is on hold until the Welsh Government passes its budget, the vote is on the 6th December. The draft budget was defeated earlier this week. Labour won 30 of the 60 seats in May and has not gone into coalition this time, the presiding officer is Labour and they lost the vote 30 to 29. The opposition party's are all trying to extract concessions to their policies/priorities in order to support it. As these trains are outside of the core franchise commitments they are vulnerable to having their funds diverted elsewhere.

2 of the party's (Cons and Lib Dems) campaigned on scraping these trains in May.

 

[43167]

Everything transport wise in Wales is on hold until the Welsh Government passes its budget, the vote is on the 6th December. The draft budget was defeated earlier this week. Labour won 30 of the 60 seats in May and has not gone into coalition this time, the presiding officer is Labour and they lost the vote 30 to 29. The opposition party's are all trying to extract concessions to their policies/priorities in order to support it. As these trains are outside of the core franchise commitments they are vulnerable to having their funds diverted elsewhere.

2 of the party's (Cons and Lib Dems) campaigned on scraping these trains in May.

Yet, at present, no doubt their members make full use of the train & its FC dinning service while it is running.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Yet, at present, no doubt their members make full use of the train & its FC dinning service while it is running.

As discussed many time on other threads far from it. Assembly Members on it and indeed anyone in FC are few and far between. My AM (Con) doesn't use it as the Cambrian trains don't connect with it.

 

[Michael.Y]

An ideal route IMHO for the Premier service outside of the WAG-prescribed hours would be 1W84 which arrives at Holyhead at 12:14, which would be ideal timing for those travelling to meet the 13:50 and 14:10 ferry departures to Ireland, as well as collecting the 11:30 and 11:45 ferry arrivals on the 1V59; most of which goes to Chester to connect to London.

I hope it doesn't happen though, as it's one of my most lucrative routes on the trolley!

 

[merlodlliw]

An ideal route IMHO for the Premier service outside of the WAG-prescribed hours would be 1W84 which arrives at Holyhead at 12:14, which would be ideal timing for those travelling to meet the 13:50 and 14:10 ferry departures to Ireland, as well as collecting the 11:30 and 11:45 ferry arrivals on the 1V59; most of which goes to Chester to connect to London.

I hope it doesn't happen though, as it's one of my most lucrative routes on the trolley!

I can not see this happening,the 0910 VT from Euston is ten coaches to Holyhead,anyone who travels on it can expect a coach to themselves from Chester.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
2 of the party's (Cons and Lib Dems) campaigned on scraping these trains in May.[/QUOTE]

The campaign was to get rid of the Premier Class on WAG 1, as for WAG 2 this was badly thought out for Political reasons.
I am not aware of any Politicians using the WAG Exs now.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No one really knows, but it looks like the 57s will still be on WAG 1 until early in the New Year.

I think March has been mentioned as the start for Class 67 and DVT "push-pull" operation.

Not much detail on the coaching stock or which DVTs will be used.

Rumours abound, latest I heard from ATW staff was, the Chefs are under notice & finish on 9th December, so if it continues,just a buffet service. The Minister will be loath to dump services, but as I have said previous, he is no fan of the Premier Class, which does not attract custom, last time I used Gerald it had two in first from Shrewsbury to Cardiff.

Yet this WAGAIR flight will continue, which is just a tourist attraction now.

As for the push/pull 67s with £3.5millions paid out, will this replace Gerald,but not via Crewe that's for sure.

Bob

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Local timetables for Dec 2011-May 2012 are now on the ATW web site for areas 3 and 5 (West Wales/Valleys).
Nothing on Marches or further north yet.

Personally I dislike all these small timetables.
There should just be one for Marches/Mid/North Wales and Man/Brum, and another for the south.
Would reinforce all the north-south prejudices...

 

[merlodlliw]

Local timetables for Dec 2011-May 2012 are now on the ATW web site for areas 3 and 5 (West Wales/Valleys).
Nothing on Marches or further north yet.

Personally I dislike all these small timetables.
There should just be one for Marches/Mid/North Wales and Man/Brum, and another for the south.
Would reinforce all the north-south prejudices...

I personally dislike timetable ATW One, too much interleaving,as for the other timetables, wait & see when WG makes its mind up,there have to be some cuts to the WAGs or redirection of service to wait this long, if they were to be left, the timetables would be out now.


Bob

 

[jones_bangor]

I personally dislike timetable ATW One, too much interleaving,as for the other timetables, wait & see when WG makes its mind up,there have to be some cuts to the WAGs or redirection of service to wait this long, if they were to be left, the timetables would be out now.

Must be redirection of service - WAG 1 via Wrexham, which means the 57s could be gone as soon as December.

Would they run the service on 67 timings with a 175 or a pair of refurbed 158s until the 67 push-pull sets are actually assembled (quite a task in itself!)?

 

[Tin Rocket]

67003 been on leafbusting duties on mml this week

 

[anthony263]

Thought this pic may interest a few:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/steam60163/6364262069/in/contacts/

 

[merlodlliw]

Must be redirection of service - WAG 1 via Wrexham, which means the 57s could be gone as soon as December.

Would they run the service on 67 timings with a 175 or a pair of refurbed 158s until the 67 push-pull sets are actually assembled (quite a task in itself!)?

ATW have no spare stock, 99% of stock is out every day, it is my understanding the 57 is only on hire to W/E 10th Dec, any further funding for hire of open access 57s will have to be approved. As I said above some big changes are imminent, to wait this long. If only the WAGAIR £ millions was available for rail,alas another political disaster.

My personal opinion, One express 67 service via Wrexham run as open access that's it.At the current costing WG are paying ATW £625K to run WAG2 for half a year ending Dec 9th , 2 coach 175 which ATW hires in from itself.

it is becoming farce, that 80% of ATW timetables are on hold & are supposed to commence in three weeks.

Bob

 

[TDK]

it is becoming farce, that 80% of ATW timetables are on hold & are supposed to commence in three weeks.

Bob

Their diagramming must be hell with the unions going potty if the diagrams for the on train crew are not forwarded shortly, look out for cancells part cancelled trains from the 9th Dec onwards, if the rest day pattern is changed Christmas will be hell on ATW

 

[jones_bangor]

ATW have no spare stock, 99% of stock is out every day, it is my understanding the 57 is only on hire to W/E 10th Dec, any further funding for hire of open access 57s will have to be approved. As I said above some big changes are imminent, to wait this long. If only the WAGAIR £ millions was available for rail,alas another political disaster.

My personal opinion, One express 67 service via Wrexham run as open access that's it.At the current costing WG are paying ATW £625K to run WAG2 for half a year ending Dec 9th , 2 coach 175 which ATW hires in from itself.

it is becoming farce, that 80% of ATW timetables are on hold & are supposed to commence in three weeks.

Stock can be made "available". I'd suggest again that 2 x 158s can be taken from Birmingham - Cambrian / Holyhead route and used as 1 x unit. A 175 / 150 could be used as a sub.

If, as expected the WAG routes both gia via Wrexham, then the 57s aren't required for the service.

Also, there may be opportunity for deploying the Mark 2 LHCS in South Wales to free up stock temporarily?

 

[anthony263]

Stock can be made "available". I'd suggest again that 2 x 158s can be taken from Birmingham - Cambrian / Holyhead route and used as 1 x unit. A 175 / 150 could be used as a sub.

If, as expected the WAG routes both gia via Wrexham, then the 57s aren't required for the service.

Also, there may be opportunity for deploying the Mark 2 LHCS in South Wales to free up stock temporarily?

Would the WG be willing to pay more money to use the loco hauled stock although is the WAG1 does go over to MK3's then it would be a shame for 2 rakes of MK2 stock which are perfectly usable to just be stored.

I am sure a 4 carriage loco hauled train would be very mucch welcomed on the Milford Haven/Carmarthen - Manchester route although I would mind seing a loco hauled rake on the Cardiff Valley lines again during the peaks.

 

[jones_bangor]

Would the WG be willing to pay more money to use the loco hauled stock although is the WAG1 does go over to MK3's then it would be a shame for 2 rakes of MK2 stock which are perfectly usable to just be stored.

I am sure a 4 carriage loco hauled train would be very mucch welcomed on the Milford Haven/Carmarthen - Manchester route although I would mind seing a loco hauled rake on the Cardiff Valley lines again during the peaks.

Maybe Cardiff - Rhymney?

 

[anthony263]

Maybe Cardiff - Rhymney?

Perhaps, although it is very unlikely to Happn I think there would be a few enthusiast's here who would like to see loco haulage on the Rhymney valley route again.

 

[jones_bangor]

Perhaps, although it is very unlikely to Happn I think there would be a few enthusiast's here who would like to see loco haulage on the Rhymney valley route again.

The key thing would be the need for a run-around at each terminus.

 

[merlodlliw]

Stock can be made "available". I'd suggest again that 2 x 158s can be taken from Birmingham - Cambrian / Holyhead route and used as 1 x unit. A 175 / 150 could be used as a sub.

If, as expected the WAG routes both gia via Wrexham, then the 57s aren't required for the service.

Also, there may be opportunity for deploying the Mark 2 LHCS in South Wales to free up stock temporarily?

So where with all respect where are you sending the 158s too.

You mean the one WAG route via Wrexham? with £3.5 millions already in ATWs coffers.

The Mark 2s in South Wales, who will pay for the loco?

Bob

 

[jones_bangor]

So where with all respect where are you sending the 158s too.

You mean the one WAG route via Wrexham? with £3.5 millions already in ATWs coffers.

The Mark 2s in South Wales, who will pay for the loco?

Well, the earlier WAG can't run with a 57 if via Wrexham, which is why there's probably a delay, trying to accommodate a Class 67 timing window between Chester and Wrexham. As there are no 67 push-pull sets assembled, i suggested that a refurbed pair of 158s would be suitable cover stock until the 67s are ready, crew trained etc. The Mark 2's could cover for the loss of 158s on a suitable route, probably South Wales, but maybe even Llandudno - Mancs?

 

[TDK]

Well, the earlier WAG can't run with a 57 if via Wrexham, which is why there's probably a delay, trying to accommodate a Class 67 timing window between Chester and Wrexham. As there are no 67 push-pull sets assembled, i suggested that a refurbed pair of 158s would be suitable cover stock until the 67s are ready, crew trained etc. The Mark 2's could cover for the loss of 158s on a suitable route, probably South Wales, but maybe even Llandudno - Mancs?

That is rediculous - how can ATW merit 158's on their premier OA service when they have been paid a rediculous amount of money to get the Coaches and DVT's refurbed, I think the WAG ought to charge them penalties for late delivery of the service paid for by WAG! To run locos and Mk2's is an enthusiasts view and not a viable one for business purposes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The key thing would be the need for a run-around at each terminus.

If you want loco hauled go on a rail tour

 

[jones_bangor]

That is rediculous - how can ATW merit 158's on their premier OA service when they have been paid a rediculous amount of money to get the Coaches and DVT's refurbed,

They won't have a choice if the 67s aren't ready....unless they run one at each end or do a run-around at Chester....

 

[12CSVT]

Perhaps, although it is very unlikely to Happn I think there would be a few enthusiast's here who would like to see loco haulage on the Rhymney valley route again.

I don't think there's a cat in hell's chance of that ever happening again - all RA7 and RA8 locos (ie 37/7s, 56s, 59s, 60s, 66s, 67s, and 70s) are banned from Bargoed Viaduct due to a weight restriction, and all the remaining 37/4s have gone to DRS.

 

[Rhydgaled]

think the WAG ought to charge them penalties for late delivery of the service paid for by WAG!

Exactly, WAG paid for 67s and mark 3s. If ATW don't provide that they should refund the monies, or provide alternative stock (eg. 175 or 158), and the use of the current 2 rakes of mark2s with 57s to free up said alternative stock somehow (not easy, since nearly all ATW services reverse somewhere on route and/or are on diagrams that get caught up in the Cambrian ERTMS zone) at no extra charge to WAG.

 

[TDK]

Exactly, WAG paid for 67s and mark 3s. If ATW don't provide that they should refund the monies, or provide alternative stock (eg. 175 or 158), and the use of the current 2 rakes of mark2s with 57s to free up said alternative stock somehow (not easy, since nearly all ATW services reverse somewhere on route and/or are on diagrams that get caught up in the Cambrian ERTMS zone) at no extra charge to WAG.

67's and mk 3's are likely to run from december without the DVT's on WAG1, maybe the ATW spokespersons can persued WAG they have completed their promise. If you say WAG are paying for 67's and mk3's and their is no clause on having these for both WAG1 & 2 it's a goal for ATW
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They won't have a choice if the 67s aren't ready....unless they run one at each end or do a run-around at Chester....

The 67's have been ready for a while it's the DVT's that are not ready, their only option is to top and tail until their DVT's are ready, this is easily possible but will ATW want to pay the extra for the loco hire and the track access?

 

[andypops]

To resurect a dead thread...and to detail a few recent events:

I've seen the freshly painted 67s stabled at Newport Alexandra Docks yard recently, as well as at Cardiff Canton. This morning, 67002 was seen leaving Cardiff (via platform 4 at central, onto the up-slow), with 3 people on board.

Later today (around 1530) whilst I was going north a flash of 2 blue locos passed heading south. At around 1600 another blue flash heading south.

Route learning is happening in earnest, then...


Andy

 

[Rhydgaled]

This morning, 67002 was seen leaving Cardiff (via platform 4 at central, onto the up-slow), with 3 people on board.

Painted in ATW/WAG dark turquoise? If so, I assume that's all three locos done then, no more to be painted? Will there be three DVTs as well as three locos (so enough for two push-pull trains with a spare set)?

Is there any word on mark3s, or are the existing WAG express mrk2 + mrk3 buffet rakes to be used with the 67s?

 

[anthony263]

Painted in ATW/WAG dark turquoise? If so, I assume that's all three locos done then, no more to be painted? Will there be three DVTs as well as three locos (so enough for two push-pull trains with a spare set)?

Is there any word on mark3s, or are the existing WAG express mrk2 + mrk3 buffet rakes to be used with the 67s?

I haven't heard anything about the ATW Mk3 carriages (possibility of chiltern carriages being used for a time?) also I am not sure whether or not the curretnt MK2 rake is wired to allow for it to be used with a 67 & dvt

 

[jones_bangor]

Painted in ATW/WAG dark turquoise? If so, I assume that's all three locos done then, no more to be painted? Will there be three DVTs as well as three locos (so enough for two push-pull trains with a spare set)?

Is there any word on mark3s, or are the existing WAG express mrk2 + mrk3 buffet rakes to be used with the 67s?

See link....seems there was a tender process.

http://www.publictenders.net/tender/92111

Hopefully up to Chiltern / X-Country standard!!

Could be in warm storage somewhere? The other bits are ready!!