WAG Express through Hereford

[TheWalrus]

Hi all

You will all be aware by now the WAG doesn't call at Hereford. I've been on it twice now, why does it pass through HFD on the relief lines? Is the signalling inadequate? Surely it would make sense to rectify this issue, and send the wag flat-out through the middle! (I'm hoping the Planner will be able to help again!)

Thanks again everyone,

Ryan

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Are the reliefs the platform loops? Strange. if anyone's wondering why they don't call, they want it to connect the North and South of Wales fast, not provide Hereford with another train, but its kind of an unnofficial law that all stuff must call at Shrewsbury

 

[TheWalrus]

Are the reliefs the platform loops? Strange. if anyone's wondering why they don't call, they want it to connect the North and South of Wales fast, not provide Hereford with another train, but its kind of an unnofficial law that all stuff must call at Shrewsbury

Yes they are. I realise that it should be fast. Why must everything call at Shrewsbury? I guess it makes sense but would there be any benefits from not calling?Speaking of which I'm in Shrewsbury now and I got off it this evening

 

[Tomnick]

According to the box diagram, the relief lines are the non-platform lines. In each direction, a position 4 'feather' routes towards the relief, with no indication towards the 'main' (i.e. platform line). I'd suggest that the route towards the relief might be approach controlled, hence not preferable for a non-stop train .

 

[TheWalrus]

According to the box diagram, the relief lines are the non-platform lines. In each direction, a position 4 'feather' routes towards the relief, with no indication towards the 'main' (i.e. platform line). I'd suggest that the route towards the relief might be approach controlled, hence not preferable for a non-stop train .

Oh I see. Will it be faster to send it through the platform track? Couldn't they do something about the track infrastructure so the train doesn't have to slow down through Hereford?

 

[brad465]

Maybe they go through the relief lines to free up platform space for stopping trains

 

[TheWalrus]

Maybe they go through the relief lines to free up platform space for stopping trains

No because they go through the platform track! I take it you haven't been through/to Hereford?

 

[Tomnick]

What would be the point of speeding up the route through the relief lines, especially if that'd mean approach controlling the route into the platform instead? (I don't know for certain whether anything's approach controlled currently) There's no capacity benefit to using a non-platform line unless it's ever going to be booked to overtake a stopping train (unlikely?) either.

 

[Welshman]

I think I read somehwere that the speed limit on the through lines is just as/more restrictive than the platform lines at Hereford, and there's no point in improving the through lines for one service per day in each direction, especially when that service's future is in question.
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I think I read somewhere that the speed restriction on the through lines is more restrictive than on the platform lines, and there's no point in improving the through lines for one service per day in each direction, especially when the future of that service is itself in doubt. Of course the reason it doesn't stop at Hereford is political - the Welsh Assembly Government intended a speedier link between N & S Wales.

 

[Proud Salopian]

...but its kind of an unnofficial law that all stuff must call at Shrewsbury

Well, what would be the point of not stopping at Shrewsbury, which is after all a major junction, one that is effectively at the centre of (what's left of) the Welsh railway network! It would probably save about a minute or two only if the WAG express didn't let passengers on/off at Shrewsbury, if any time at all, as the train would presumably still have to stop to go between Crewe Junction and Severn Bridge Junction (and vice versa).

 

[a good off]

As tomnick says. The linespeed for the facing set of points (UM/UR) is 20mph and approach controlled. The same applies at the northern end for the down WAG express. This is why through trains are routed via the platform lines. The centre relief lines are used more like through loops and are used as such several times a day to recess freights.

 

[merlodlliw]

Well, what would be the point of not stopping at Shrewsbury, which is after all a major junction, one that is effectively at the centre of (what's left of) the Welsh railway network! It would probably save about a minute or two only if the WAG express didn't let passengers on/off at Shrewsbury, if any time at all, as the train would presumably still have to stop to go between Crewe Junction and Severn Bridge Junction (and vice versa).

As this is a Political train, the reason it stops at Shrewsbury is to take on the very few(if any) 1st class passengers who have just used the W/S 0725 service from Wrexham & want to go to Cardiff, in reality they use the 0625 ex Wrexham to Cardiff.

As for not stopping at Hereford, which is a WAG managed station,politics in place of common sense.

 

[TheWalrus]

What would be the point of speeding up the route through the relief lines, especially if that'd mean approach controlling the route into the platform instead? (I don't know for certain whether anything's approach controlled currently) There's no capacity benefit to using a non-platform line unless it's ever going to be booked to overtake a stopping train (unlikely?) either.

It does go through the platform lines! (Whether they are the reliefs or not, but someone on here said the middle lines are the reliefs)
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Well, what would be the point of not stopping at Shrewsbury, which is after all a major junction, one that is effectively at the centre of (what's left of) the Welsh railway network! It would probably save about a minute or two only if the WAG express didn't let passengers on/off at Shrewsbury, if any time at all, as the train would presumably still have to stop to go between Crewe Junction and Severn Bridge Junction (and vice versa).

Well like I said, it makes sense. A lady at Newport changed there for Gobowen.

 

[The Planner]

Its already been answered, the platform lines are the quicker route as the centre lines are approached controlled and slows you right down to a crawl.

 

[TheWalrus]

As tomnick says. The linespeed for the facing set of points (UM/UR) is 20mph and approach controlled. The same applies at the northern end for the down WAG express. This is why through trains are routed via the platform lines. The centre relief lines are used more like through loops and are used as such several times a day to recess freights.

I get what you are saying. What's the linespeed of the points through the platform lines?

 

[Pacerpilot]

All the points are 20mph bar the North end crossover which is 15mph. The Up and Down reliefs are 20mph, platform Lines are 40mph (platform 1 is 20mph though)

EDIT: Its been a long while since I've driven up that way, but If I remember correctly, the speed reduces to a 30mph on the approaches to Hereford and may possibly be a 30mph crossover into the Platform line.... Ill try to confirm it with one of my colleagues. Speed definitely changes back to 40mph for the platform Line though.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Stupid question - What does WAG stand for anyway?

 

[a good off]

The north end cross over isn't a signalled move either and its worked by a GF... Plat 1 is the back platform hence the 20mph.

 

[Greenback]

Stupid question - What does WAG stand for anyway?

Welsh Assembly Government!

 

[TheWalrus]

As for not stopping at Hereford, which is a WAG managed station,politics in place of common sense.

We all know why it doesn't call at Hereford... (Nothing to do with the fact that it's in England...)
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All the points are 20mph bar the North end crossover which is 15mph. The Up and Down reliefs are 20mph, platform Lines are 40mph (platform 1 is 20mph though)

Couldn't they raise speed restrictions from 40 to bring it into line with the rest of the line? I think lots of infrastructure improvements (raising speed restrictions inparticular) will contribute to a much faster link between South and North Wales, meaning more passengers (therefore more revenue) less people will use the air service, so it could be withdrawn, with WAG not having to subsidise it. Increased revenue on the rail service will also mean less of a subsidy on that, so WAG saves yet more money. In the meantime ATW could look into more efficient ways to operate the service, saving money here. That's me done for the time being!

 

[Greenback]

I predict that the air service will be withdrawn in the not too distant future anyway!

 

[Pacerpilot]

We all know why it doesn't call at Hereford... (Nothing to do with the fact that it's in England...)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Couldn't they raise speed restrictions from 40 to bring it into line with the rest of the line? I think lots of infrastructure improvements (raising speed restrictions inparticular) will contribute to a much faster link between South and North Wales, meaning more passengers (therefore more revenue) less people will use the air service, so it could be withdrawn, with WAG not having to subsidise it. Increased revenue on the rail service will also mean less of a subsidy on that, so WAG saves yet more money. In the meantime ATW could look into more efficient ways to operate the service, saving money here. That's me done for the time being!

I dont really think the benefit would outweigh the costs for the sake of 10mph, and only for one train.

 

[Tomnick]

It'd be poor value for money, I'd suggest, increasing the speed through the platform roads for the single passenger train that's not booked to call (and only then on dodgy political grounds!). Removing the centre roaDs might help, if the platform roads can then be realigned - but where do you then recess your freights? Making relief lines the higher speed route would probably put a full minute or two into each stopper, if they were then subject to approach control from red on the approach to the platform.

 

[Olympian]

Interestingly, I've definitely been through a non-platform line at Hereford a few times in the past on the Northbound WAG express, though more recently I've noticed it's always gone through the platform line apart from one time earlier this year when it used a relief line to pass the preceeding Manchester train that was running late and, I believe, was made even later by being held at Hereford for a little while to allow us to pass...

 

[a good off]

When the WAG express was first introduced it was booked via the through lines at Hereford but was usually sent via the platform lines anyway for the above reasons.

There have been several times when the late running Manchester (all shacks to Shrewsbury) has been held for the WAG to pass. Not having a booked Hereford stop assists this greatly.

 

[TheWalrus]

if my proposal is poor value for money, whats a near £8k per day subsidy?

 

[tbtc]

We all know why it doesn't call at Hereford... (Nothing to do with the fact that it's in England...)

Why not?

 

[TDK]

if my proposal is poor value for money, whats a near £8k per day subsidy?

Do a cost analysis on how much a minute (if you even save that) it would be if the Hereford area was upgraded just for one train, it is a rediculous proposal, the money would be better spent upgrading the level crossings on the route so no one else is killed. The WAG express is dead in the water as the WAG will eventually come off their high horse and stop funding it.

 

[The Planner]

A minute on that service is worth sod all, but if it was the WCML or ECML then it is potentially worth hundreds of thousands.

 

[Greenback]

A very concise and accurate way of putting it, Planner!