Wakefield / Five Towns District platform extensions

Discussion in 'Infrastructure & Stations' started by johntea, 9 Nov 2018.

  1. johntea

    johntea Established Member

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    Well I never!

    https://www.pontefractandcastleford...ain-stations-to-be-improved-in-2019-1-9424416

    Although some of the planned stations already seem to have long enough platforms?
     
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  3. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    Goodness.

    I know Normanto can just about fit a 4 carriage 158.

    They could do with extending Castleford so that you can have two trains "cross over" in it.
     
  4. noddingdonkey

    noddingdonkey Member

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    Or bring platform 2 back into use at Cas?
     
  5. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    that is good news, but surely Castleford is the one that needs investment to increase line capacity.
     
  6. superkev

    superkev Established Member

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    Not seen a mention of the Selby line which requires the guard of longer trains to open the doors which are at the platform from the outside.
    K
     
  7. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    AFAIK each route/area is being done separately. The Pontecarlo/CasVegas/Normanhattan lines have just been announced, others will presumably follow.

    Why it's taking so long is another matter, they'll need to get a wriggle on considering the glacial pace at Sowerby Bridge for example. The Penistone line is meant to be going to 60m lengths but the most awkward one is the bay at Huddersfield.
     
  8. IanXC

    IanXC Emeritus Moderator

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    Already in progress. Micklefield's Leeds bound platform has been completed, work under way in the other side, plus contractors on site at South Milford.
     
  9. AndrewE

    AndrewE Established Member

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    A total of seven railway stations in the Wakefield district are to get platform extensions to accommodate larger trains.
    A pedant writes: If they really want to accommodate larger trains then surely they will have to cut the platforms back? If it's just longer trains then that is relatively easy to do... So much for the ability of journalists to analyse a situation and report it accurately and concisely!
     
  10. NorthernSpirit

    NorthernSpirit Established Member

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    Its going to be fun at Ponte Monkhill since the footbridge is in the way on the Leeds / Wakefield bound platform. Monkhill may as well get rebuilt completely with longer platforms and lifts instead of stairs.
     
  11. johntea

    johntea Established Member

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    Source : https://www.pontefractandcastleford...ments-to-castleford-railway-station-1-9525285

    What work exactly is involved in extending the platform? And what trains do Northern even plan to run on the route?!
     
  12. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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  13. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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  14. NorthernSpirit

    NorthernSpirit Established Member

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    The Leeds end of platform one could do with being extended right up to the viaduct or even just on it by a few meters, then platform 2 could do with the platform ramp being removed and extended right up to the tunnel mouth. Platform 1 can then be shortened by a couple of meters so that platform 2 can be extended by two meters - either way it's going to be a tight fit.

    The Pontefract Line, what's happening with the platforms at Whitley Bridge, Hensall, Snaith, Rawcliffe and Goole - are these to be extended too? It would make sense to then some services can be extended to Goole or even to Hull.
     
  15. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    As I understand it that's the plan for Huddersfield: extend P1 towards Leeds to compensate for losing a bit at the Manchester end when P2 is extended.
     
  16. johntea

    johntea Established Member

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    The platform extension works at Castleford look to have started

    They’ve also seemingly got a £3 million plan to improve the station area (including the subway) but as usual all the local rag readers seem to be asking is why they can’t have a direct link to York and Scarborough from P2! I suspect that would cost quite a bit more than the £3 million allocated to the whole station project somehow!
     
  17. deltic08

    deltic08 Established Member

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    Surely Goole is long enough for 4 already?

    As for Normanton, the to Leeds platform needs to become the to Wakefield platform and a new to Leeds platform and running line need to be built and do away with that ridiculous island platform and 35 mph speed restriction. This route could become a regular trans Pennine route with a stop at Wakefield Kirkgate in the same time as via Dewbury if the route was updated to 100mph where possible especially from Normanton and Ravensthorpe.

    It will mean altering the 20mph slack on the Up fast at Horbury Junction and building a new alignment through the middle of the disused Healy Mills freight yard.
     
    Last edited: 15 Mar 2019
  18. Spartacus

    Spartacus Member

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    You'd need to raise more than that to compare to the via Dewsbury time, the route's around 11 miles and 19 minutes longer than that via Dewsbury, and that's without considering potential for congestion in the Stourton and Hunslet areas, and potential conflicts at other junctions. A 100mph start to stop average would still be a minute short of the via Dewsbury non-stop time.

    Better bet would be a York - "west of Pennines' via the calder valley in true L&YR spirit, post Mirfield rebuild, but as it would need an extra Cas platform I think it's very much in 'speculative ideas' territory......
     
  19. Killingworth

    Killingworth Member

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  20. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    Are the platforms at woodlesford getting done? Noticed the car park is to be closed for a period of time and alrwasy equipment is being stored
     
  21. Killingworth

    Killingworth Member

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    if you look at the map on the page linked to my previous post you'll see it's on the list due by end of February. This is the rail industry so should be done by April?
     
  22. TheSel

    TheSel Member

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    Of course, if they make the platforms long enough, you won't need a train at all!

    :oops:
     
  23. deltic08

    deltic08 Established Member

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    You taking the fastest non stop Leeds-Huddersfield time in your calculations. All stations stoppers via Dewsbury would take about the same time as one stop via Wakefeild?

    If it is only 11 miles longer through Wakefield it should only be 11 minutes longer in time on a mainly 70mph railway or less if they make it a 90mph line. 10 minutes longer is acceptable to most passengers.
     
  24. Spartacus

    Spartacus Member

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    I'm comparing like for like, fastest express via Morley and fastest express via Normanton. Stopping at Kirkgate and stopping at Dewsbury would add the same amount of time to both. Comparing an all stations stopper to a one stop semi-fast just isn't a fair comparison, you might as well compare to a via Bradford service, but even if we do compare, a semi-fast via Kirkgate would still take about 4 minutes longer than an all shacks via Morley.

    Much of the route isn't 70mph though, and couldn't be made 70mph, let alone 90mph, I'm thinking especially of the route into and out of Leeds through Hunslet, but even if you could make those line speed improvements I doubt most passengers would be happy with an extra 10 minutes on their journey when their journey can take as little as 18 minutes, it's a 62% increase in best journey time. How much would it cost to provide a journey still so much slower than the existing one?
     
  25. deltic08

    deltic08 Established Member

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    Not all trains are as fast as 18 minutes. ! believe only the Newcastles are non stop between Leeds and Huddersfield. Capacity issues are constrained by Morley tunnel but Wakefield route makes four lines from Leeds to Ravensthorpe and would double capacity with an alternate fast route while the all station stoppers make their way to Ravensthorpe.

    As to the slow route to Stourton, trains are doing 75mph by the time they get to there having been allowed to accelerate to 50mph then 75mph from Hunslet. Marginally slower than the Dewsbury route for the first mile out of Leeds where they are still only doing 40 mph.

    With the sort of infrastructure improvements the Dewsbury route is getting, the Wakefield route could easily be made 90mph minimum except through Wakefield but a stop would be made there anyway.
     
  26. Spartacus

    Spartacus Member

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    Newcastles and Scarboroughs are both non-stop, that's 3 trains per hour. Ones calling at Dewsbury are frequently allowed 19 minutes between Leeds and Huddersfield, so there's hardly much difference.

    Morley tunnel is only a real constraint during disruption, as the service should be planned for everything on greens it wouldn't affect the timetable planning headway.

    As I've stated, with a stop at Kirkgate it's still slower than an all stations service. If you diverted an express from Leeds via Kirkgate to overtake a stopper it would be further behind it at Heaton Lodge than it would be if it had followed it through Morley, and that's if it doesn't get caught up with other services crossing it's route at Thornhill Jn, Horbury Jn, Wakefield Kirkgate, Turners Lane Jn, Altofts Jn, Methley Jn, and junctions through Stourton and Hunslet. Even in the unlikely event that such infrastructure enhancement was justified for the benefit of two or three services an hour, you could increase the line speed all you like but at some point you're going to be playing signal bingo with a stopper slowing you down unless it gets some link to HS2.

    Wakefield really does need a service to Manchester, but having it as a diverted TPE service between Huddersfield and Leeds really isn't the way when the route takes so much longer.
     
    Last edited: 17 Mar 2019 at 18:29
  27. deltic08

    deltic08 Established Member

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    I don't think I mentioned diverting TPE trains, you did, This would be additional to begin with to ascertain passenger numbers then would be diversions unless there is mileage in starting a train at York via Castleford.

    However, Normanton still needs rebuilding as two separate platforms and not spending money elongating an island platform with heavily speed restricted (35mph) doglegs around one side as is being done at Mirfield.
     
  28. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

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    thanks - it is often hard to see such things on the mobile
     
  29. modernrail

    modernrail Member

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    How many carriages can fit into the current P1 at Huddersfield? I suppose bearing in mind there are different lengths we should use the Nova's length as a carriage length.
     
  30. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    Not sure of the exact length, but I have a vague memory of a 7-car 158 formation calling during disruption. It can take 6x23m 185s with a little bit of breathing room so should be fine for the 68+5 22m Mk5a sets. The 802s of course are 26m 5-car sets, so may be the reason for an extension to compensate for a loss when P2 gets extended.
     
  31. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    Its a good question. It would offer a step change in connectivity for the area.
     

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