Wales & Borders Franchise Consultation

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by LNW-GW Joint, 1 Mar 2017.

  1. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Established Member

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    The Welsh Government has posted a consultation on the next franchise, closing on 23 May 2017.
    This is replicated on the DfT web site, and is a joint consultation being managed by the WG.
    https://consultations.gov.wales/sit..._files/170228-tw-consultation-document-en.pdf

    The consultation is split into two sections - (a) South Wales Metro and (b) the rest.
    It is rather bland and tick-box in nature, and contains no specific service proposals.
    The geographic scope is "as a minimum" the current ATW network.
    However, it is the first time that the WG and DfT have agreed on the scope of the franchise, which will be for 15 years with award due in January 2018.
    The bidder short list, as we know, is Arriva, Abellio, MTR and Keolis/Amey.

    It mentions the intention to operate to Bristol and Liverpool (subject to capacity).
    It suggests that Hereford, Shrewsbury and Chester stations might be transferred to other franchises to manage.
    If this happens, Hereford and Shrewsbury would go to West Midlands, Chester to either West Coast or Northern.
    ATW's Sunday local services between Shrewsbury and Birmingham will transfer to West Midlands in 2021.

    So, it's put up or shut up time!
    For the first time, it seems the show is properly on the road.
     
    Last edited: 1 Mar 2017
  2. Llanigraham

    Llanigraham Established Member

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    Survey completed, but it does seem to concentrate on the Metro
     
  3. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    There's also consultation events-


     
  4. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    appalling generic tick box nonsense mainly with the exception of the role of the second person on the train.

    Ive said yes to the South Wales Metro being DCO provided that 95% of services are guaranteed a second staff member for customer service/revnue protection/passenger assistance etc.

    Ive said keep the Conductor as is for everywhere else.
     
    Last edited: 1 Mar 2017
  5. Rhydgaled

    Rhydgaled Established Member

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    Now, where do we put "do NOT require operators to provide more than 3 through (fast) trains per day (each way) between Cardiff and Holyhead"? CDF-Holyhead every two hours (let alone hourly) is a waste of paths that as I wrote here could instead be used to strengthen the case for north Wales electrification. Ditto the Holyhead-Birmingham (via Wrexham) service; that needs to be split at Chester with NWCL-Birmingham services running via Crewe and Stafford.
     
  6. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    There's som free text boxes stick it in there I did:p
     
  7. gareth950

    gareth950 Member

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    Is there an option to say that the Valley Lines need to be kept as a single, unified through network from the Valleys to Penarth/Barry/Bridgend, rather than the bonkers plans to have it half tram / half heavy rail, splitting the current network at Central / Queen St and trying to terminate or turn around everything in Cardiff?

    Thought not. :roll:
     
    Last edited: 1 Mar 2017
  8. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Perhaps a requirement to run Liverpool to Holyhead every hour and Liverpool to Cardiff every two hours - that should limit the availability of paths for Holyhead to Cardiff. ;)
     
  9. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Nice to see you've given it in two languages. Will you be doing the same for future posts on the new franchise. ;)
     
  10. Rhydgaled

    Rhydgaled Established Member

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    That's another of the things I want to try and get over to TfW/WAG. The only sensible way to split up the ValleyLines network, in my opinion, is to turn some of the shorter routes (Coryton, Cardiff Bay and maybe Penarth) into trams. Prefrably with a street running central section so they don't need to be tram-trains sharing the route through Queen Street station and from there to CDF. The bit about freight on the ValleyLines might be the best place to put that.

    Another worry is the way Abergavenny and Chepstow are marked on the map as being part of the metro. Both hint that WAG may be leaning towards bi-modes, which could be a good thing (if it allows us to meet the TSI-PRM deadline without making the 150s compliant, probably by bringing in 319s since there seems to be no time left for any as-yet-unannouced new build DMUs by 2020) or a bad thing (if it leads to only the Cardiff - Pontypridd section actually getting electrified). Also, specifically with Abergavenny, I think it makes very little sense to terminate services there when one stop further on (Hereford) would offer more connections to other places (although that would then be more outer-suburban than metro).

    An Ebbw Vale - Newport service seems to be missing from one of the maps too.
     
    Last edited: 1 Mar 2017
  11. gareth950

    gareth950 Member

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    I agree, however it's very difficult to envisage how Penarth or Coryton could become separate tram services atm - neither are completely separate from the HR network. Penarth services would still be using HR lines between Cogan junction - Grangetown - Central and Coryton services between Heath Low Level - Central.

    Any NEW rail connections in the Valleys / Cardiff should by all means be light rail (apart from if passenger services past Aberdare are ever extended to Hirwaun) - I'm amazed that no light rail connections are being considered for the new housing developments out at Cardiff West - but for upgrading the existing network, including Maesteg and Ebbw Vale, track improvements, including doubling of single line sections and heavy rail electrification must be the best solution.
     
    Last edited: 2 Mar 2017
  12. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Portion working would solve that.
     
  13. Rhydgaled

    Rhydgaled Established Member

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    Yeah, if the Penarth branch were converted to light rail it would have to use tram-train rolling stock (on heavy rail infrustructure from Cogan Junc. to Cardiff) unless you can four-track along there (two tracks heavy rail at 25kv AC and two tracks tram). You would need a new bridge over the River Ely for the two new tracks, but otherwise it looks on Google Earth like the formation might be wide enough until Grangetown where you might get four tracks but probably not four platforms unless you can put one for trams under half the heavy rail formation. The bridge (over Virgil Street) just south of Penarth Curve South Junc. also looks like it would be a tight spot for 4-track, so the trams would have to turn right (heading towards Cardiff) onto street-running somewhere; maybe at Grangetown station. If there, trams would run along Penarth Road (A4160) to the southern entrance of Cardiff Central. That is where it could meet the Cardiff Bay and Coryton lines, with northbound trams diverging from the current Cardiff Bay line near Callaghan square, then past the back entrance of CDF (joining Penarth Road), under the GWML and somehow (the tricky bit, perhaps) threading its way along the city streets to Heath Low Level, thus completely segregated from the heavy rail routes.

    I think there is (or should be) more scope for heavy rail additions than that; for starters why stop at Hirwaun? Ok there is track there and not beyond, but linking through to Glynneath and Swansea would start to turn it into a truely south-east Wales metro, rather than just a Cardiff metro. Sticking to the Cardiff/Newport valleys, Abertillery, Trelewis (Cwm Bargoed branch); maybe even Blaenavon and Brecon. All must be considered as future additions which would want to be heavy rail.

    I agree in general, but if you are VERY, VERY certain that you are NEVER going to extend (for example) the Treherbert line and there are low bridges it might be worth considering dual-voltage heavy-rail EMUs with lower-voltage light-rail style OHLE on the extremities (such as between Treherbert and Pontypridd) to avoid the cost of rebuilding bridges.

    I think you may be overlooking some of the context of my earlier post; specifically the effect regular Holyhead to Cardiff services would have on the case for north Wales electrification. Good luck portion working an EMU with a DMU, unless you order brand new fleets of both. Plus the only long-distance fast diesel units currently in existance which are good for portion working are the 158s/159s and they are all in use.
     
  14. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    Arwyddion yr anogwr cefn underutilized Caergybi i Gaerdydd a bydd cael gwasanaeth bob awr i gynnal gwersi iaith Gymraeg fel y gall ein ffrindiau yn y ffin yn darllen ffyrdd yn enwedig ddall cynhadledd Cymru.
     
  15. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    Heres what National Express were promising in 2001 before the goalpost were moved.

    Do you think Transport Wales will be as bold to go for 50 million users, £350 million investment in trains, £300 million in infrastructure and 1000 new jobs?
     

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  16. PHILIPE

    PHILIPE Established Member

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    Da iawn, Gareth.
     
  17. Dai Corner

    Dai Corner Member

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    This is what Google Translate made of Gareth's post. Could you enlighten us non Welsh readers please? :D


     
  18. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Another instance of poor Welsh translation is below. The Welsh displays an out-of-office message in response to an email to translate the text in to Welsh.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: 2 Mar 2017
  19. Llanigraham

    Llanigraham Established Member

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    I suspect Gareth is not a Welsh speaker and has used a (poor) translation service.
     
  20. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    the under-utilised carriages on the hourly Cardiff to Holyhead trains would be ideal mobile Welsh classrooms in order so we can all become better translators. It kills two sacred cows from Cardiff Bay with one stone.
     

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