Walk between Birmingham Snow Hill and New Street

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by trainophile, 13 Jul 2013.

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  1. trainophile

    trainophile Established Member

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    Is this walk as complicated as it looks on Google maps? I'm hopeless finding my way in places I'm unfamiliar with, but there are a couple of services a day from my A to B where the fare (especially 1st Class) is considerably cheaper, presumably due to the walking part of the journey.

    It looks like a bit of a zigzag through the city - would it be easy enough to navigate for a stranger? Do the street junctions have signage on, like they do in Liverpool?
     
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  3. pinguini

    pinguini Member

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    It's not difficult at all. Well signposted. You'd be better off, if unfamiliar and possible, getting off the train at Moor Street rather than Snow Hill (or getting ona train between the 2) and walking to New Street from there which is just a few yards.
     
  4. trainophile

    trainophile Established Member

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    Thanks pinguini. I'm gonna go for it next time I'm booking then :). Not sure if my timetabled route would allow inclusion of Moor Street, but certainly worth investigating.
     
  5. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Moor St is closer.

    I think I've only walked to Snow Hill (rather than Moor St) once, as part of a group of about 30 people, only one of whom apparently knew the way, and all I can remember was that we had to navigate our way around a lot of shoppers, and it seemed convoluted.

    I can't imagine why not? They're all members of Birmingham Stations and the BIRMINGHAM Routeing Group.

    Though as we don't know the ticket(s) held, or the intended route, it's difficult for us to advise.
     
  6. trainophile

    trainophile Established Member

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    It's my usual Hereford to Southport, and as I do it about once a week it would be worth me getting the hang of the Birmingham walkabout.

    Sunday services offer one suitably-timed Advance ticket journey with this walk included, currently @ £19.80 for 1st Class with my Senior railcard, as compared with those that change at BHM, which are either £27.40 (if I'm lucky) or £34.30.

    I've got a taste for 1st Class now, but can only consider affording it at weekends! I've tried just about every other conceivable (permitted!) route, and this is the only one I've yet to get to grips with.

    ETA My comment about Moor Street being an option are purely down to the timings on my inbound and ex-BHM journeys.
     
    Last edited: 13 Jul 2013
  7. pinguini

    pinguini Member

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    Surely Hereford to Snow Hill will take a very long time? I get fed up just doing that stretch of track just from Worcester.
     
  8. trainophile

    trainophile Established Member

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    20 minutes change at Worcester Shrub Hill, and the Webtis (is that right?) schedule allows 45 minutes for the walk :shock: , hence my concern about how complicated and how far it actually is!

    The full journey is over five hours, good thing I like travelling.
     
    Last edited: 13 Jul 2013
  9. pinguini

    pinguini Member

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    No - the walk itself is around 10 minutes (perhaps 15-20 if you're slow on your feet). The 45 minutes quoted is the time you have from arriving at Snow Hill to departing from New Street.

    What is the difference in fares between buying just a standard from Hereford-Birmingham (and using a New Street faster service) and then a 1st class advance from Birmingham to Stockport. I only suggest because London Midland wont offer a 1st class between Hereford and Birmingham anyway.
     
  10. sonic2009

    sonic2009 Established Member

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    It's not actually that far I can walk it in about 5 minutes. Here's a map showing you how long it is :)

    I have directed on Google for you from Costa Coffee which is at the front of Snow Hill Station to Ladbrokes, which is directly opposite the new entrance to New Street Station, It's all downhill as well :)
     
  11. trainophile

    trainophile Established Member

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    I know, and think it's a shame there's no 1st coach on that LM service as I'm sure it would be popular. Very overcrowded by Worcester usually.

    They're only every two hours from Hereford on Sundays, so not a lot of choice. I did try the Stockport route a couple of months ago (can't remember how that happened now, and can't find it again - must have been due to track maintenance or something)... anyway the Virgin into Stockport was late and I missed my connection to Southport, so ended up having to go to Oxford Road, where I spotted a NT bound for Hunts Cross, and eventually got to Southport that way. There was only 5 mins connection at Stockport and VT seem prone to being a bit late!

    Edit (yet again) - that reply was to pinguini. Thanks sonic, that's really helpful.

    Must go to bed now, got a train to catch in the morning :lol:.
     
    Last edited: 13 Jul 2013
  12. Llanigraham

    Llanigraham On Moderation

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    Ignoring the fact that parts are closed this weekend, wouldn't it be better going Hereford, Crewe?
     
  13. trainophile

    trainophile Established Member

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    I often go via Crewe/Liverpool South Parkway on weekdays, but won't pay the extra £5 for that route on Sundays, when via Manchester or Crewe/Chester is available. It's because of the Newport through Shrewsbury bus replacements atm that I'm going the BHM way, and by booking well in advance I've managed to get 1st Class for only £2.65 more than Standard Class, so why not?

    When the engineering work is finished I doubt I'll go that way too often, but if I can get a £19.80 1st Class and sort the walk out I'll definitely consider it when I'm not economising! :lol:
     
  14. Class172

    Class172 Established Member Quizmaster

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    I don't usually walk from Snow Hill to New Street in order to make a connection, but I often walk the distance between the two stations. I know the city centre fairly well and there are a number of routes you can take which are relatively simple - the quickest is probably through the cathedral grounds though currently (I cannot get onto google maps so can't see what sonic's link shows), if you really do find it confusing, you can just follow the roadworks for the new tram line, that links the two stations.

    I'm sure there's a demand for 1st class on the service, judging from the people I see on the services. A few years ago for some reason or another the last section of a 5 car 170 service (0805 DTW-BHM ex HFD) had first class advertised it was used.
     
  15. Mugby

    Mugby Established Member

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    When the tram works are completed and there is a tram link between New St and Snow Hill, it makes me wonder if it will be of much benefit to the average passenger wishing to cross between the two.

    By the time you've exited New St, waited for a tram, boarded, travelled and got off at the other end, wouldn't it be just as quick to have walked?
     
  16. theboywho

    theboywho Member

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    Absolutely, but not so convenient with baggage.
     
  17. Cherry_Picker

    Cherry_Picker Established Member

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    The tram extension isn't really just about providing a link between New Street station and the Snow Hill lines though, it's about giving trams a visible presence in the city centre. I think a lot more people who live along the current route would be more inclined to use the tram if it takes them right into the heart of he city rather than spitting them out beneath a car park at Snow Hill.
     
  18. dvboy

    dvboy Established Member

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    I'd say 5 minutes was cutting it fine to walk from Snow Hill to New Street. I'd say you need at least ten, platform to platform. By far the easiest route, is, turn right at Costa when you come out of Snow Hill, at the end of the shops on the left, turn into the cathedral grounds, walk round the right hand side of the cathedral to the other side, exiting opposite Louis Vuitton. Walk down that road, all the way down to the end, crossing New Street itself, and the station is in front of you. Down hill all the way.

    It's probably slightly quicker and easier to do this presently than to stay on a train to Moor Street and walk from there. If going the other way, however, I'd be inclined to go from New Street to Moor Street than to Snow Hill, give the uphill walk, and that platform 2 at Moor Street is on the right side of the station when you enter.
     
  19. Bevan Price

    Bevan Price Established Member

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    But it wouldn't be popular with the extra standard class passengers who would be forced to stand, due to loss of those standard seats in the area converted to 1st class. Similar problem to what happened on Birmingham - Leicester when the already inadequate 2 coach 170s lost standard class seats to allow 1st class seating on XC services.
     
  20. trainophile

    trainophile Established Member

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    Would it be out of the question to change to a 4-coach set for that run then? I know LM have them, as I often travel on one between LIV and BHM. Presumably they don't have enough in service though, or that's what they'd do?

    I understand from discussions on another public transport forum (some time ago, can't remember what it was called - something like "fixmyride"?) that the BHM to HFD service gets even more overcrowded in that direction, and having used it myself occasionally I can verify this, especially in the afternoons, so everything seems to point to reviewing the allocated trains ongoing for this popular route.

    Or give the franchise to someone else? I bet FGW could handle it, but perhaps they wouldn't want it :lol:.

    Edit: Engage brain before posting :oops:. Slight problem with my idea - no electrification on HFD-BHM is there? :oops:

    Illustrating why 'passengers' are not the best people to suggest how rail services could be improved!
     
    Last edited: 15 Jul 2013
  21. Marvin

    Marvin Member

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    The 4-coach sets you speak of are electric, so they can't be used on those routes anyway.
     
    Last edited: 15 Jul 2013
  22. Rich McLean

    Rich McLean Established Member

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    LM LIV to BHM are 350s and operate under OHLE. The XC run 170s to Leicester. There are no 4 coach 170s with LM

    Edit: Seem you mean Hereford trains, but same applies
     
    Last edited: 15 Jul 2013
  23. trainophile

    trainophile Established Member

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    Snap! See my edit of two mins before you posted! Funny what realisations come to you in the shower :lol:.
     
  24. Class172

    Class172 Established Member Quizmaster

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    As someone who uses the line every day in term time, I can agree with the above statements that during the peak time certainly, the line is very overcrowded, a few services would qualify for the 'sardine tin' description. Whilst services country-bound are okay by around 1000, trains continue to be full towards New St until at least lunchtime. Currently the line sees a mix of 2-5 car services all operated by 170s (there are exceptions).

    I did hear a rumour when Central Trains were split up, and Chiltern were possibly going to get the Snow Hill Lines, that BHM-HFD would be transferred to XC, though given their current resources, I'm not too sure that would have provided any benefit. I would be surprised if FGW were interested in the route, considering it is so far out of their main area.

    As for stock I have had a quick look at the statistics for the line to see if any improvements could be made:

    Line Length: 55m 05ch
    Avg. distance between stations*: 6m 18ch
    Journey Length*: 90mins
    Avg. time between stations*: 10mins

    I can't see any more DMUs being made available so perhaps on a limited number of services, say two loco-hauled diagrams could be introduced: this allows released 170s to bulk up other services both on the line and the Chase and Shrewsbury lines. Perhaps a formation of 4/5 mk2/mk3s with DBSO/DVT could be used with a suitable locomotive. Then also you may be able to offer 1st class without losing standard capacity since a peak-time 5 car 170 formation seats 318 and 5 mk3 coaches can seat around 375 (as an example).

    Just my thoughts on the matter. ;)
     
  25. dvboy

    dvboy Established Member

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    No but there are some doubled-up 2x coach 170s services on the Shrewsbury route, and perhaps elsewhere.
     
  26. Eagle

    Eagle Established Member

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    Here is a related question which has just cropped up in my life:

    How long does it take to walk from Moor Street station to Digbeth coach station? (This'll be at around 22.00 on Wednesday.)
     
  27. Class172

    Class172 Established Member Quizmaster

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    I would say a brisk 5 minute walk - here's the route on google.
     
  28. dvboy

    dvboy Established Member

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    That route suggested by Google by that link is silly because it's a driving route.

    Come out of Moor Street, turn left and follow the side of Selfridges round (big silver shiny building). At St Martin's church turn left and continue along this road, you'll need to cross the road but you'll see it on the right.

    Don't try and cut through the Bullring car park onto Allison Street - you can't.
     
    Last edited: 15 Jul 2013
  29. Class172

    Class172 Established Member Quizmaster

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    Just because the route defaults to following roads doesn't make it silly; anyhow, your described route is virtually the same as what google has given. :roll:
     
  30. dvboy

    dvboy Established Member

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    If you change it to a Walking Route, yes, but the link provided was to a driving route taking you all around Masshouse, down Park Street and then Bradford Street.
     
    Last edited: 15 Jul 2013
  31. Eagle

    Eagle Established Member

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    No it isn't; your Google route is following the one way system. It's going all the way up to Chapel St and back down Park St, and going the long way round the coach station.

    You can choose walking directions from the options though, and it'll ignore one way roads.
     
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