• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Walsall line - Cross City North

Status
Not open for further replies.

thewolf

Member
Joined
1 Apr 2006
Messages
141
Hi all,

Not really a question as such, just something odd I've spotted - no doubt one of the many strange quirks of the ticketing system...


Just checked on Avantix Traveller to see how much it will be to get from Hamstead to Sutton Coldfield tomorrow and it comes up with two fares - an 'Any Permitted' and a cheaper 'Not Birmingham'. The same situation exists from/to all stations along the Walsall line and those along the X-City as far as Blake Street.


I assume 'Not Birmingham' means changing at Aston (rather than the very long way via Rugeley TV and Lichfield TV), however as this is the suggested method, and the shortest, would that not make it the only permitted route anyway?

Secondly, when putting the journey details in on LM's website it only offers the £2.25 'Any Permitted' fare, despite changing at Aston.

I also suspect that is the ticket I will be sold at the station tomorrow. Would be interesting to see if the 'Not Birmingham' fare is available from TVMs though. Or is it a case that this ticket does not, in fact, exist?

Thoughts?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

SS4

Established Member
Joined
30 Jan 2011
Messages
8,589
Location
Birmingham
They share a routeing group so only the shortest route is valid which, as you say, is via Aston.

Blake Street is only really significant as it marks the end of the centro zone in that direction. NRE gives the £2.25 fare (CDR with railcard).

edit: Avantix does have the not Birmingham. I've never seen such a ticket before
 
Joined
8 Jun 2009
Messages
595
Click 'Show Specific Routes' in the mixing deck, then click 'not via Birmingham'...

"No fares have been found for your selected service"

Which makes sense because Aston is part of Birmingham group and that is the only permitted route.

I imagine a TVM would quite possibly sell you this useless ticket.
 

island

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
15,979
Location
0036
I remember reading a letter from ATOC saying that a ticket routed NOT LONDON was valid via London if the only permitted routes for the journey went through London!
 

thewolf

Member
Joined
1 Apr 2006
Messages
141
You must go via Birmingham group (of which Aston is a member) so a 'Not Birmingham' ticket is useless.

I thought New St, Moor St and Snow Hill were the only 'Birmingham' stations? Or is the 'Birmingham Group' something totally different? :-x

For the record, I was sold the 'Not Birmingham' fare after being asked if I was changing at Aston.

The only case I could see the two different fares being of any relevance would be travelling from Walsall or Tame Bridge where there is a Birmingham train that doesn't stop at Aston.
 

Paul Kelly

Verified Rep - BR Fares
Joined
16 Apr 2010
Messages
4,130
Location
Reading
Section 6.12 of the Routeing Guide Datafeed Specification indicates that the route on a ticket can refer to either a specific station, or a routeing guide group. And there is no way for a member of the public to tell which is which. In fact, since it isn't advertised anywhere what it means, perhaps it isn't really enforceable. However we can tell from the behaviour of the London Midland booking engine that in this case it means "not Birmingham routeing guide group", since it is excluding Aston. It's possible this is a mistake and "NOT BIRMINGHAM" is supposed to mean changing at Aston. It may even be worth bringing up with ATOC. Sounds like the "ANY PERMITTED" should be renamed "BIRMINGHAM", specifically meaning Birmingham New Street and as an addition to the permitted routes, and the "NOT BIRMINGHAM" should be renamed "ANY PERMITTED".
 

thewolf

Member
Joined
1 Apr 2006
Messages
141
There seem to be a few odd fares around here.

I recently discovered that with the exception of Sutton Coldfield, there are no off-peak returns to Stratford on Avon from any X-City North or Walsall line stations, but for the rest of the West Midlands area that ticket is available, meaning my ticket cost £2 more than my friend who was travelling from Bourneville - It would've been cheaper for me to split my journey in Birmingham instead of buying the Anytime return :roll:
 

John @ home

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2008
Messages
5,148
Section 6.12 of the Routeing Guide Datafeed Specification indicates that the route on a ticket can refer to either a specific station, or a routeing guide group. And there is no way for a member of the public to tell which is which.
It is this unsatisfactory position which was the cause of the thread WSMR and Birmingham Stations in April - June 2009. The thread includes two contributions by Andy Hamilton. Even he was confused, and he was managing director of the train company.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top