Walton bus driver 'ordered mother and crying child off bus'

[wintonian]

I admit to sometimes silently wishing parents would carry Laudanum these days but I wouldn't chuck them off. On the other hand I expect nothing less from a Frstbus operation. :roll:

Walton bus driver 'ordered mother and crying child off bus'

A bus driver accused of ordering a mother and toddler off his vehicle because the child was crying is facing disciplinary action.

Paryss Walter, 22, said she and daughter, Lillie, two, were told to get off the route 76 First bus in Walton, near Felixstowe, Suffolk.

Ms Walter had a 10 minute walk home and said she felt "humiliated".

First confirmed it had received a complaint and said a disciplinary process was "ongoing".

A spokesman said: "We received a complaint from this customer, regarding inappropriate behaviour from a driver on our 76 service.

Disabled mother

"The driver has been identified and the disciplinary process is still ongoing.

"First take allegations of this nature extremely seriously, and the driver in question will be dealt with according to our company policy."

Shop assistant Ms Walter said she had been to visit her disabled mother in Old Felixstowe when the incident happened at about 17:50 GMT on 19 February.

She said her daughter began screaming and crying intermittently during the journey and claimed the driver ordered her off the bus one stop before she had planned, in High Street, Walton.

"He said that he had a headache and told us to get off the bus," she said.

"Other passengers were all telling me to stay on the bus. He got more and more angry. I was absolutely humiliated."

Ms Walter said after her complaint she received a letter from First, dated 21 March, referring to the "unacceptable behaviour" she had "encountered from one of our drivers".

It added: "I am sorry you received such a poor level of customer service from our driver."

BBC

 

[SteamPower]

I'm not excusing his behaviour (if true) though I always think bus drivers get a bad deal compared to most other drivers, they face a lot more distraction from things like this that are out of their control

 

[NSEFAN]

Let's wait and see if these allegations are actually true. If we hear nothing more of it, then we know that someone was telling fibs.

 

[34D]

Direct link http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-22108599

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I am sure I read somewhere a couple of years ago where a driver did the same because a crying toddler was a severe distraction and the company backed him. Must be more to this.

 

[Ivo]

Unless there is more to this than meets the eye - besides the claim that she was told to alight only one stop early - then there is no adequate reason for someone to do this, no matter their position. First tend to be more supportive of mothers than average - for example, breast feeding is permitted (maybe the mother didn't know about this?) - so this should come as a wake up call for someone, somewhere, be it driver, manager, mother, or whoever.

Conveniently, on Tuesday the Eastern Counties Customer Service phone lines weren't working...

I'm not excusing his behaviour (if true) though I always think bus drivers get a bad deal compared to most other drivers, they face a lot more distraction from things like this that are out of their control

Distractions are part of the job as they are with any other job. A good driver of any vehicle, not just a bus, will be able to cope with these distractions to such an effective degree that they may as well not be there.

Similarly, this distraction is only audible to the driver, unless he keeps looking in the mirror to his immediate left in which case he is not paying enough attention to the road ahead of him, meaning it shouldn't affect his driving (much) - and that, along with safety, is what should matter most.

 

[455driver]

First tend to be more supportive of mothers than average - for example, breast feeding is permitted (maybe the mother didn't know about this?)

It always has been on every bus!

 

[Ivo]

It always has been on every bus!

Fair enough, but in that case why isn't it more openly advised? All I have seen in 12 years of paying proper attention to buses is a (recent) note in the (recent) Customer Charter for Bristol and Bath.

If something like the above happened here, and I knew the mother in question, First would be in it deep.

 

[455driver]

I can remember when I was at school (yep my memory is that good ) a young mum sitting at the front upstairs seat on a bus breast feeding so its been known about for a few decades at least.

 

[mbonwick]

Breast feeding in public has been a legal right since 1975 (under the Sex Discrimination Act). Why should bus companies have to waste money publicising their 'stance', when it can only be supportive?

 

[anthony263]

Having been at the wheel of a bus on a number of occasions I will have some agreement with the drivers actions based on what I have read about this case.

Little children screaming on a bus can be a major annoyance and distraction no matter how much you try and ignore it. It is even worse when there is a group of them one reason why the buggy bridgade is hated by a lot of bus drivers.

I have seen a case where a mother and kids have been asked to get off the bus and the children were out of control and were at risk of causing injuries to themselves and other passengers especially if the bus braked sharply

 

[Ivo]

Regarding the pervious point, I didn't know the legal entitlement went back that far. So fair enough.

I have seen a case where a mother and kids have been asked to get off the bus and the children were out of control and were at risk of causing injuries to themselves and other passengers especially if the bus braked sharply

But this is something completely different. What we are being told was the case here was a child who was crying - something which happens every day, everywhere, including on buses. What you are describing is basically anti-social behaviour which should be the mother's responsibility to sort out - and if she can't, then something has to be done.

Safety is the most important thing here, and whilst unruly children may affect that, crying children certainly will not.

 

[wintonian]

I am sure I read somewhere a couple of years ago where a driver did the same because a crying toddler was a severe distraction and the company backed him. Must be more to this.

I agree the is most likely more to it, should have made that clear in the OP but it was gone midnight.

Direct link http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-22108599

Link in OP fixed.

Under yet another brilliant DM headline they also have a copy of the pretty standard apology letter First sent out.

Goodness why they are using this as evidence of the passengers claims as it says absolutely nothing (as one would expect) :roll:

 

[34D]

I can remember when I was at school (yep my memory is that good ) a young mum sitting at the front upstairs seat on a bus breast feeding so its been known about for a few decades at least.

Indeed. Ladies are welcome to get them out on any bus that I'm driving, and I'm sure you will allow the same on your class 455 unit.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But this is something completely different. What we are being told was the case here was a child who was crying - something which happens every day, everywhere, including on buses. What you are describing is basically anti-social behaviour which should be the mother's responsibility to sort out - and if she can't, then something has to be done.

Erm we're talking about a child of two!! I'm guessing you're not a parent, Ivo?

 

[Shrimper]

Interestingly I was told when being trained by another large bus operating company that as a driver we are well within our right to ask parents with screaming children to leave the vehicle if they are causing a distraction - and this was fairly recently as well.

 

[anthony263]

Interestingly I was told when being trained by another large bus operating company that as a driver we are well within our right to ask parents with screaming children to leave the vehicle if they are causing a distraction - and this was fairly recently as well.

Told the exact same thing

 

[deltic1989]

So let me get this straight. A Bus Driver asked a parent with a 2 year old child to get off the bus because the child was crying?
And there are people here that think that that is reasonable behavior for a professional driver? I can only assume that this Bus Driver is not a parent because if he was then he would understand that children cry.....yes even 2 year olds. In fact there is a phase of child development called the 'Terrible Two's' where children can become unruly and uncontrollable it is so called because the child is generally around 2 years old when they go through this phase, another thing that leads me to believe that this driver is not a parent if he was he would know this already.
On the point of it being a distraction, Bus drivers surely get crying children on their buses every day it is something you become used to. Indeed if I allowed it to distract me whilst driving then my car would never get used.
If said driver is distracted by a crying child then may I suggest he is in the wrong job.

I am a father of 3 i have a 5 year old Boy and 2 girls of 4 years old and 18 months and I am well versed in the child cries i make every effort to console them whilst others look on and judge me a bad father routine, and frankly I'm rather tired of it. People need to understand that if a child wants to throw a tantrum there is nothing on the face of the earth that is going to stop them, it is a natural part of growing up and if you are going to earn a living driving a Public Service Vehicle then it's something you should damn well get used to or find another job.

The child has done nothing except be a child and the Mother has done nothing but be a Mother, they are not the ones at fault here. The bus driver with his disgusting attitude and weak excuse (if your headache is that bad why are you driving a bus full of people) is whats wrong here and frankly I hope that his boss finds the largest book in the land and throws it at him.
I find it incredible that people can work in a public service role and have such disdain for the public.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I can only assume that some people posting in this thread have never had the 'pleasure' of driving a bus with a screaming child on board. A bit of crying? That's fine. It's understandable, acceptable and pretty much ignorable. A child crying, regularly punctuated by an almost deafening, loud, high pitched scream? That's a completely different thing, and can easily affect the drivers concentration. It's even worse when the parent totally ignores the child and makes no attempt to calm it. We have, of course, only heard one side of the story, as is all so often the case.

Also, remember that the driver is responsible for the safety of everyone on board the bus. It's only natural therefore, for the driver to pay attention to somebody screaming loudly. Just wait until there's a headline in the papers along the lines of "Child injured on bus - Disgust as driver ignores screams and continues driving..."

 

[mbonwick]

Mother with out of control child (not saying that's the case here) ejected from bus and shock horror has to walk a short distance, or bus is involved in an accident due to the distraction of said child. I know which I'd prefer.

 

[deltic1989]

I can only assume that some people posting in this thread have never had the 'pleasure' of driving a bus with a screaming child on board.

This much is true. I have never had that pleasure. I have however had the pleasure of driving a car, a much more confined space, with 3 children on board. Those that have children will understand that one throwing a tantrum will invariably set the others off.
In my situation I don't have the option to eject the children from the vehicle as they are my own.
Fair enough the screaming (though it has to be said your description is a little melodramatic) was a bit annoying for the first week or so but i have now trained myself to ignore it whilst driving. In actual fact when i am alone in the car or driving my work vehicle I miss it.
The fact is children will get onto buses, they will have tantrums and bus drivers should get used to it.

Mother with out of control child (not saying that's the case here) ejected from bus and shock horror has to walk a short distance, or bus is involved in an accident due to the distraction of said child. I know which I'd prefer.

IMHO the distance is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that a Mother and Child were ejected from the bus for no greater crime than the Child being a Child.
As I have said a child's tantrum need not be a distraction it's a fact of everyday life a child has a tantrum on some buses I get on and I don't see them being chucked off. No. If one is going to earn a living from driving public Service Vehicles then they should learn to accept this as part of the job.
The more concerning thing here is the fact that the driver was driving with a "Headache" which to me provides far more of a distraction than a child, and IMO he shouldn't have been behind the wheel.

If we are to feel sorry for the poor driver who was distracted by the "out of control child" then what are we to do with Ambulance drivers those poor folk who have to put up with screaming coming from the back of their vehicle whilst weaving through traffic at 50 mph, do they get distracted? No it's part of their job. Do they have the option to eject their passengers for being too noisy? No, because they are providing a service. Just like bus drivers are and they have got used to it and accept noisy passengers as a given, why can't bus drivers do the same.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In High Street, Walton, is it the stated 10 minutes to the next bus stop or was that inclusive of the time it would have taken to walk home from the stop she originally had intended to disembark ? The story is rather unclear on that point.

 

[mbonwick]

I read it as 10minutes to the door Paul, but I agree it isn't clear.

deltic - ever considered the fact that the headache may be due to the child screaming its head off? Personally I know I get headaches very quickly from screaming kids...

 

[Shrimper]

I do find in my experience to find it one of the most distracting noises - it's loud and piercing; and it is human instinct to pay attention to it. Anti-social music and noisiness I can deal with; screaming children I find difficult to tolerate though I have never had to ask a passenger with a screaming child to disembark.

 

[SS4]

Disabled mother

These two words alone make me suspicious that she is pasting it on thick and embellishing any facts to make herself look better and the driver look worse. It also implies she is the disabled person rather than her mother imo. All in all I think I'll need a silo of salt

 

[deltic1989]

I read it as 10minutes to the door Paul, but I agree it isn't clear.

deltic - ever considered the fact that the headache may be due to the child screaming its head off? Personally I know I get headaches very quickly from screaming kids...

I had considered the possibility but the way that it was quoted in the article it has made me think that the headache was pre-exsisting before mother and child boarded. I could have misunderstood though.

These two words alone make me suspicious that she is pasting it on thick and embellishing any facts to make herself look better and the driver look worse. It also implies she is the disabled person rather than her mother imo. All in all I think I'll need a silo of salt

I was wondering what relevance that the woman's disabled mother had to the story at hand. It could be a case of the woman trying to use it to her advantage to make the driver seem even more out of line than he already is for chucking them off the bus.

 

[william]

Without getting caught up in the hard facts of this case, which we may never fully know, it seems there is a general differing opinion of what is acceptable.
Either screaming kids is part and parcel of being a bus driver or it isn't and the driver has the right to ask them to leave the bus regardless of where, when and any other circumstances.

I personally find the latter point of view disgraceful and I'd hate to think that is what is being instructed by the bus companies. For one, parents don't have a choice if their two year old starts screaming and secondly asking them to leave the bus may leave them vulnerable, in danger and quite frankly stuck.

It shows a lack of basic human compassion and I agree, those drivers who don't demonstrate that surely are in the wrong job.

 

[455driver]

Indeed. Ladies are welcome to get them out on any bus that I'm driving, and I'm sure you will allow the same on your class 455 unit.

After seeing what some women were (not) wearing last night I am sure a few would have fallen out at the slightest provocation!

Roll on summer!

edit-

A bus driver can ask anyone who is causing them a distaction to leave the bus, it is a question of safety.
I used to drive buses and when doing school specials I used to pull up at the side of the road regularly until the little darlings quietened down, I am not crashing due to being distacted.
All those saying how wrong asking her to leave the bus was need to try it before commenting, a kid crying/ screaming is one of the worst noises possible when you are trying to concentrate.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

So let me get this straight. A Bus Driver asked a parent with a 2 year old child to get off the bus because the child was crying?
And there are people here that think that that is reasonable behavior for a professional driver? I can only assume that this Bus Driver is not a parent because if he was then he would understand that children cry.....yes even 2 year olds. In fact there is a phase of child development called the 'Terrible Two's' where children can become unruly and uncontrollable it is so called because the child is generally around 2 years old when they go through this phase, another thing that leads me to believe that this driver is not a parent if he was he would know this already.
On the point of it being a distraction, Bus drivers surely get crying children on their buses every day it is something you become used to. Indeed if I allowed it to distract me whilst driving then my car would never get used.
If said driver is distracted by a crying child then may I suggest he is in the wrong job.

I am a father of 3 i have a 5 year old Boy and 2 girls of 4 years old and 18 months and I am well versed in the child cries i make every effort to console them whilst others look on and judge me a bad father routine, and frankly I'm rather tired of it. People need to understand that if a child wants to throw a tantrum there is nothing on the face of the earth that is going to stop them, it is a natural part of growing up and if you are going to earn a living driving a Public Service Vehicle then it's something you should damn well get used to or find another job.

The child has done nothing except be a child and the Mother has done nothing but be a Mother, they are not the ones at fault here. The bus driver with his disgusting attitude and weak excuse (if your headache is that bad why are you driving a bus full of people) is whats wrong here and frankly I hope that his boss finds the largest book in the land and throws it at him.
I find it incredible that people can work in a public service role and have such disdain for the public.

Public service or not if a driver becomes distracted to a point where it is dangerous for him/her to continue what exactly is he supposed to do? Put up with the noise and cause an accident? Where ear plugs? Everyone has a different tolerence to different distractions from day to day. Stop hanging the driver out to dry. This hysterics is quite frankly laughable.

 

[mbonwick]

I'd also wager that a child screaming produces enough decibels to require ear protection for the driver, if the letter of EU law were to be followed!

EDIT: Buses are referred to as PCVs - Public Carrying Vehicles, not PSVs any more.

 

[455driver]

EDIT: Buses are referred to as PCVs - Public Carrying Vehicles, not PSVs any more.

<Pedant mode>

Passenger carrying vehicles!