I thought the plan was to extend the 1,500 v DC electrification from Sheffield Victoria to Marylebone via the GC main line....hence the construction of the 90mph EM2 (class 77) locos, which could never reach their full potential on the 60mph maximum Woodhead line. However, they certainly earned their keep and stretched their wheels in their last 16 years after sale to the Netherlands - hammering up and down between Den Haag CS and Venlo with 135km/h Inter-City trains.
The electrification did extend west, because the 1500v Altrincham line started in those times at the through platforms at Manchester London Road, and i believe there were wires right across from the Sheffield line. Nothing seems to have operated through though, possibly the substations on the Altrincham line did not have enough output for locomotives. The connection was taken out when the 25Kv was installed in 1960, thereafter for another 10 years or so Piccadilly station had 25Kv in the middle and 1500v either side.
IIRC the two 1500v DC schemes were never linked. The MSW 1500v dc gantries were only for the old GCR platforms. The LNWR platforms were not wired until 1960. In 1960 the 1500v Altrincham line was cut back to Oxford Road - and the Piccadilly to Oxford Road section was rewired at 25kv. The rest of the line to Altrincham was done in 1971.
I agree.
The running down of the GC London extension as an "inter-city" route started pretty much immediately after the grouping. I very much doubt whether they ever regarded it as a priority electrification project!
Yeah I'm pretty certain the two systems were never linked, even before the bits between then got 25Kv'd.
not necessarily. Trains could have run from Glazebrook on the CLC towards Stockport Tiviot Dale then headed to the woodhead that way thereby avoiding manchester completely. most if not all of the route has since been lifted especially after the tunnel at Stockport was damaged during the motorway construction.
AFAIK, the South Yorkshire - Fiddlers Ferry coal traffic over Woodhead took a freight-only route from Godley Junction (after electric to diesel traction change), via Stockport Tiviot Dale, Northenden, Skelton Junction (nr. Timperley), direct to Latchford, Arpley Junction (nr. Warrington) and Fiddlers Ferry, not via Glazebrook and the CLC line, which runs parallel a bit further north.
I believe the original intention was to electrify to Liverpool.
It was closed because of the condition of the viaduct across the Manchester Ship Canal at Latchford.
Did the remaining coal traffic get re-routed via Northwich and Acton Bridge then (to keep it away from Manchester)?
Yes, as I understand it, the GC London Extension was never a busy long-distance route - I once saw it described as a 'connoisseurs' route to London i.e. the services were not that frequent.
Between Nottingham and Woodford Halse the GC was primarily a freight railway, moving huge quantities of coal. Passenger trains were sometimes viewed as a bit of a nuisance, eating capacity.
Really? I honestly think it was an obvious candidate for closure, and that it's never seriously been missed, in terms of practical need.
Indeed, but it’s interesting to wonder how its future would have panned out if it had been. I think that would have required the survival of the LNER though.
Effectively, yes. The electrification was planned in the world that existed before the war, and by the time it was eventually finished, that world had disappeared.
I don't think it was more significantly direct — Sheffield Victoria via Penistone was 41½ miles, whereas today's route via Stockport is 42½ miles (and via Belle Vue 42 miles). I think from a passenger traffic perspective Sheffield Victoria always was the "wrong" station, even if one could ever have dreamt of massive development of the Great Central routes south and east. And whilst it might just have been possible to build a west-to-south curve to get into Midland—which was always going to be the principal Sheffield station—in the couple of decades after the War, that has long since been an impossible option. It would be interesting to know if there were ever any studies of whether better speeds could have been achieved over Woodhead, though from memories of the curvature I'd have thought it unlikley much could have been done. Whereas teh greater part of the Midland line was over two sections of relatively modern and well laid out railway, suitable for quite good speeds (and adaptable to allow Stockport to be served if that became desirable (which it did, only to be achieved on the cheap, like other things in the Manchester area).)
According to my 1969 Eastern Region (South) Sectional Appendix, the maximum speed at any point between Manchester Piccadilly and Sheffield Victoria was 60 mph. This may have been something to do with the fact that the line was resignalled 'on the cheap' in the early 1950s at the time of electrification, with colour light running signals on the main lines, but with individual signalboxes and absolute block working retained with semaphore signals in loops and sidings. The braking distances between distant, home and starter signals may have had a bearing on the maximum permitted speed....as was the case with the Glasgow North electric lines, which were electrified and resignalled a few years later - and also retained a 60 mph speed limited. Strange though that the EM1s (76s) had a top speed of 65!
And the EM2s were 90! A facility they did eventually get the chance to exploit, but on NS rails not BR ones.
Apparently they were demonstrated at full speed over Woodhead to some NS officials prior to the sale. Must've been interesting!
Interesting! They had been stored in the old steam shed at Bury for several years prior to the sale, so they must have needed a fair bit of dusting and greasing before those exploits.
