Waterloo and City 1992 Stock

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HSTEd

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Continuing my long history of rather esoteric questions, does anyone know whether the 4-car 1992 stock trains on the W&C are significantly different to the regular 1992 stock, and how much work it would take to convert the DM/NDM end pairs of the regular stock into more W&C style sets?


ALso - does anyone know what the total traction rating of a 4-car 1992 stock train actually is? Are they rigged for regenerative braking?

Thanks for any replies to these rather specific and obscure questions.
 
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HMS Ark Royal

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Continuing my long history of rather esoteric questions, does anyone know whether the 4-car 1992 stock trains on the W&C are significantly different to the regular 1992 stock, and how much work it would take to convert the DM/NDM end pairs of the regular stock into more W&C style sets?

There is quite a lot, but the big one for me is that trip-cocks are used for protection instead of ATO/ATP
 

Mojo

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There's no Air conditioning in the cab on the W&C trains either
 

NSE

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Hehe never thought of it, but I guess there's absolutely no need to have destination screens as the carriages will never be turned!
 

HMS Ark Royal

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Hehe never thought of it, but I guess there's absolutely no need to have destination screens as the carriages will never be turned!

I think when they were put in after the refurbishment, they entered the depot in reverse order
 

ANDREW_D_WEBB

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Central Line stock had arm rests when they were first delivered, but they were soon removed. They seemed to fall off, I remember getting a Central
Line home late one night and finding several on the floor.
 

phoenixcronin

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Central Line stock had arm rests when they were first delivered, but they were soon removed. They seemed to fall off, I remember getting a Central
Line home late one night and finding several on the floor.

They didn't fall off, the local hooligans found that the armrests were of a weak construction and therefore began to kick them off. Eventually it was decided to remove them all!
 

HSTEd

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You could convert whatever you want, but theres nowhere to store them in Waterloo Depot...

I am kind of working up a post-Central Line use for them and it most certainly doesn't need 8 car sets.

But I am struggling to find documentation as to the power of the trains etc. From what I can tell they are extremely powerful considering their rather low weight.

Also does anyone know what the voltage tolerances on tube lines actually are?
I can't seem to find the specification anywhere, although I was able to score a copy of the old Railtrack standard for 660V/750V systems.#
I doubt a tube train would cope well with 900V permanently across the rails, as would be allowed on a main line train.
 
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trash80

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"But I am struggling to find documentation as to the power of the trains etc. From what I can tell they are extremely powerful considering their rather low weight."

Funnily enough thats something i was trying to work out a few months ago. Now the Brush LT130 traction motor provides 62hp/46kW [1]. There are 4 motors per car so its a total power of 248hp/184kW per car.

[1] Piers Conner, The London Underground Electric Train p. 18

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Actually as the W&C stock used to be British Rail Class 482 they are of course in Marsden's DMU/EMU book[2] (forgot about that book last night!)

He gives slightly different figures, 57.6hp/43kW per traction motor and a total of 461hp/344kW (for a 2 car set). The other figure given was for a traction motor in a Central Line train so either the W&C stock is slightly derated or someone is wrong :lol:

[2] Colin J. Marsden, DMU and EMU Recognition Guide p. 364
 
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SpacePhoenix

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Once LU have finished with them, would they be any good on the Island Line? Looking at the stock numbers in terms of numbers of units and cars per unit it would be like for like
 

trash80

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They are slightly wider and a bit longer (per carriage) than the Class 483/1938 Stock so i don't know if that would fall foul of the Ryde tunnel or not.
 

Nym

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One must also remember they're fed from one chopper on one car per unit and one chopper per car of the unit, so you can put higher line voltages on should one desire... So long as they're within the tolerances of the converters.
 

Paul180

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Why did they put windscreen wipers on the 92 Waterloo & City line stock as they do not venture outside. The 1940s stock did not have them and I think that they came out more often and were tested on the mainline when it as dry between Alton and Farnham and may have run between Waterloo and Wimbledon.
 

HMS Ark Royal

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Why did they put windscreen wipers on the 92 Waterloo & City line stock as they do not venture outside. The 1940s stock did not have them and I think that they came out more often and were tested on the mainline when it as dry between Alton and Farnham and may have run between Waterloo and Wimbledon.

Because the tunnel leaks a little, I believe... Also, the BR order came off the back of the Central Line order, so they left them on

1940 stock would have a set of wipers fitted when tested
 

tranzitjim

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Ok, this is a thread about the W&C line.

Would there be an easy way to put in a rail connection, so you can get trains in and and out of that line?

Could a connection at Bank be possible, say with the Central line?

Would it be possible to put in a ramp up to say the mainline tracks just out from Waterloo, so a train can drive up and out that way?
 

AM9

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Ok, this is a thread about the W&C line.

Would there be an easy way to put in a rail connection, so you can get trains in and and out of that line?

Could a connection at Bank be possible, say with the Central line?

Would it be possible to put in a ramp up to say the mainline tracks just out from Waterloo, so a train can drive up and out that way?

Anything is possible but the W&C runs nearly N-S under Waterloo and transverse to the tracks in the station so hardly cost effective for no real gain.

As for extending at Bank, ludicrously expensive and so disruptive that it would shut the Central line for years.
 
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MrB

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The way forwards at Bank is obstructed anyway isn't it?

I believe so yes. There is, of course, the spaghetti-like layout of lines in the Bank area but a London Reconnections article stated that the way may also be obstructed by the Bank of England vaults.

There has also long been talk of a station at Blackfriars and an extension southwards from Waterloo, but all of these would most likely be prohibitively expensive and would also give very limited returns.
 

317 forever

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Anything is possible but the W&C runs nearly N-S under Waterloo and transverse to the tracks in the station so hardly cost effective for no real gain.

As for extending at Bank, ludicrously expensive and so disruptive that it would shut the Central line for years.

Although I think it has already been described as impracticable on here, I hoped the DLR could be extended from Bank to Waterloo, taking over the W&C Line.
 

gimmea50anyday

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Think the DLR is looking at the former jubilee line thru aldwych to Charing Cross as a possibility. DLR is also looking at the widened lines thru Barbican and Farringdon
 

jopsuk

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I don't think the DLR is considering any such extension seriously, but those rumours have circulated for years.


To get to the Widened Lines would be possible, but it would be a pretty steep climb.

Going to Charing Cross would be almost entirely new build tunnels, presumably including new stations en route. Very expensive, especially as there's nowhere to launch a TBM
 

Dstock7080

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DLR is also looking at the widened lines thru Barbican and Farringdon
The City Widened Line from Farringdon to Moorgate are to be used for stabling of LU SSR trains.
Work to remove the current sidings at Farringdon are to start soon and a connection made with the line through Barbican.
 

swt_passenger

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The City Widened Line from Farringdon to Moorgate are to be used for stabling of LU SSR trains.
Work to remove the current sidings at Farringdon are to start soon and a connection made with the line through Barbican.

Is there any more detail available about this scheme please?

Will they actually stable units in the tunnels, or just in Moorgate and Barbican station's 'other' platforms?

Stabling trains end on with other trains comes with the risk of a defective train blocking others in, or will there be additional S&C fitted all over the place to effectively provide various stabling berths with a separate access line, IYSWIM.
 
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Dstock7080

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Is there any more detail available about this scheme please?

Will they actually stable units in the tunnels, or just in Moorgate and Barbican station's 'other' platforms?

Stabling trains end on with other trains comes with the risk of a defective train blocking others in, or will there be additional S&C fitted all over the place to effectively provide various stabling berths with a separate access line, IYSWIM.
Lillie Bridge depot, until recently, stabled trains in lines of 3 on three roads.

ESTL (End State Track Layout) diagrams 2015:
Farringdon City sidings:

 

swt_passenger

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Thanks for that info, first time I've seen any sort of plan. Seems odd that they aren't using the other platform at Moorgate, but presumably it saves a significant amount of S&C? Will the lines be secure from public access at Barbican, thinking about certain unfortunate nighttime troublemakers?

I see now that 3 in a row with access both ends is fairly safe against any single defective train.
 
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