Waterloo Station Upgrade

[reytomas1228]

Are any of the new lifts to the Underground level open yet?

 

[Goldfish62]

Are any of the new lifts to the Underground level open yet?

The ones on P21 and 22 were cordoned off this morning, as were the escalators.

 

[ijmad]

The ones on P21 and 22 were cordoned off this morning, as were the escalators.

Cordons rather than hoardings usually suggests they will open soon, though.

 

[swt_passenger]

SWRailway tweets saying platforms 1-22 open tomorrow

Should that have really been “21-22 open tomorrow”, given 1-20 were already in normal use?

I mean we know railway PR people like to exaggerate a bit, but that seems excessive...

 

[nlogax]

Views from the mezzanine this morning. Uploading these from phone so not sure how these will look

 

[DelW]

Should that have really been “21-22 open tomorrow”, given 1-20 were already in normal use?

I mean we know railway PR people like to exaggerate a bit, but that seems excessive...

It works if you consider "open" as an adjective not a verb, i.e. "Platforms 1-22 [will be] open tomorrow", not "Platforms 1-22 [will] open tomorrow",

There was also some speculation above that 19 & 20 might be closed for work to be carried out.

 

[swt_passenger]

...There was also some speculation above that 19 & 20 might be closed for work to be carried out.

I wondered about that because RTT still shows them in normal use. Maybe they’ll become closed most weekends at some stage?

 

[paok]

Apparently 23-24 to come into use when the May 2019 timetable comes in.

 

[swt_passenger]

Apparently 23-24 to come into use when the May 2019 timetable comes in.

Are they actually saying anything positive about May 2019 changes yet? Wouldn’t be a surprise if they became Dec 2019, as seems to have been suggested in a few other areas, eg the GWR area.

 

[Bigfoot]

Apparently 23-24 to come into use when the May 2019 timetable comes in.

They are available for use in disruption currently not for regular traffic.

 

[ijmad]

Had a look round earlier. The escalators down to the 'orchestra pit' still very much look like a work in progress, there's scaffolding filling the space below, so it seems like quite a bit more work to do down there. Couldn't tell you if it's weeks or months worth though.

Lots of continued activity by hardhats/hiviz people in the undercroft.

 

[swt_passenger]

Looking at the earlier pictures that concrete box to the right side of the new concourse (P23/24 side above orchestra pit) seems a very poor design feature. Many recent lift shafts seem to be much more lightweight, often using a lot of glass. Seems a bit of a throwback...

 

[nlogax]

Looking at the earlier pictures that concrete box to the right side of the new concourse (P23/24 side above orchestra pit) seems a very poor design feature. Many recent lift shafts seem to be much more lightweight, often using a lot of glass. Seems a bit of a throwback...

If you want any more pictures let me know, I'll be passing back through Waterloo in a couple of hours.

 

[Bigfoot]

Looking at the earlier pictures that concrete box to the right side of the new concourse (P23/24 side above orchestra pit) seems a very poor design feature. Many recent lift shafts seem to be much more lightweight, often using a lot of glass. Seems a bit of a throwback...

I believe it's original from the eurostar station...

 

[TEW]

Are they actually saying anything positive about May 2019 changes yet? Wouldn’t be a surprise if they became Dec 2019, as seems to have been suggested in a few other areas, eg the GWR area.

It's hard to get any concrete information on the May 2019 timetable. The full changes originally planned for December 2018 certainly seem unlikely.

 

[swt_passenger]

I believe it's original from the eurostar station...

The planning drawings show it is new build over where the end of the P22/23 tracks were filled in. The original lifts down to the Eurostar check-in were on the other side of the “pit” near the P19 gateline.

Searching online images and videos shows it wasn’t there in late summer 2017, it’s new since then.

 

[Class 170101]

There was also some speculation above that 19 & 20 might be closed for work to be carried out.

Apparently 23-24 to come into use when the May 2019 timetable comes in.

They are available for use in disruption currently not for regular traffic.

But if 19 and 20 need to be closed for an extended period between now and May 2019 for work to be carried out then perhaps everything can shift to the right to use Platforms 21 to 24 instead of 19 to 22 rather than cancelling services.

 

[DennisM]

What is the function of the orchestra pit level other than retail space?

I assume it’s the route between 20-24 and the underground during off peak times (when the escalators on the platforms aren’t in use) to avoid walking across the bridge and round to the main underground entrance. In which case it merely fixes a problem caused by it being the there in the first place! Is it reopening purely for the sake of prime retail space instead of simply having a flat(ish) concourse covering over the area?

 

[swt_passenger]

What is the function of the orchestra pit level other than retail space?

I assume it’s the route between 20-24 and the underground during off peak times (when the escalators on the platforms aren’t in use) to avoid walking across the bridge and round to the main underground entrance. In which case it merely fixes a problem caused by it being the there in the first place! Is it reopening purely for the sake of prime retail space instead of simply having a flat(ish) concourse covering over the area?

It will also provide a street level entrance to the whole station and the underground from York Rd, once further development outside the station takes place.

 

[Helvellyn]

It is a shame the original plan to drop the whole concourse opposite platforms 20-24 to ground level didn't go ahead. This would have included modifying the victory arch as well. Would have given much larger circulating space and a better entrance to the tube.

 

[swt_passenger]

It is a shame the original plan to drop the whole concourse opposite platforms 20-24 to ground level didn't go ahead. This would have included modifying the victory arch as well. Would have given much larger circulating space and a better entrance to the tube.

Looking at it today, isn’t the Bakerloo/Northern concourse an entire level lower than the orchestra pit level? There seems to be a relatively small set of stairs heading down towards the underground (roughly under the P19 gateline and to the right of the new stairs down from the main concourse), but it doesn’t look as if it will be able to cope with large numbers. I think it will come out where the hoarding is at the foot of the ‘tube’ escalators.

I have a couple of photos I’ll try and get from the phone to the internet later, see post #92.

 

[Goldfish62]

Looking at it today, isn’t the Bakerloo/Northern concourse an entire level lower than the orchestra pit level? There seems to be a relatively small set of stairs heading down towards the underground (roughly under the P19 gateline and to the right of the new stairs down from the main concourse), but it doesn’t look as if it will be able to cope with large numbers. I think it will come out where the hoarding is at the foot of the ‘tube’ escalators.

I have a couple of photos I’ll try and get from the phone to the internet later...

The escalators direct to the Underground, according to the NR press release, will be in use from "early 2019" so I guess we'll find out soon.

P23 and 24 in use from May.

 

[swt_passenger]

The escalators direct to the Underground, according to the NR press release, will be in use from "early 2019" so I guess we'll find out soon.

P23 and 24 in use from May.

Odd. According to the planning drawings there can’t really be escalators ‘directly’ to the underground as they only go from platform to orchestra pit level, then there’s another set to underground level, but they are further along the building. But how they then get to the underground gateline seems a bit round the houses as well...

 

[Goldfish62]

Odd. According to the planning drawings there can’t really be escalators ‘directly’ to the underground as they only go from platform to orchestra pit level, then there’s another set to underground level, but they are further along the building. But how they then get to the underground gateline seems a bit round the houses as well...

I think they mean the escalators on the platforms which lead to the undercroft under the former international platforms. They are there because I used them during the blockade.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think they mean the escalators on the platforms which lead to the undercroft under the former international platforms. They are there because I used them during the blockade.

Yes that’s the ones I meant, but that level they reach down to is still another flight above underground level. I cannot see anything that could really be called ‘direct’ towards the Bakerloo/Northern concourse. During the blockade didn’t the route down the escalators end up connecting to the main station peak hours subway?

I expect we cannot link to the planning drawings, but the case reference number on Lambeth’s planning website is “16/02973/FUL”. I’d love to find a drawing of the existing areas that the new circulation links into...

 

[moley]

Yes that’s the ones I meant, but that level they reach down to is still another flight above underground level. I cannot see anything that could really be called ‘direct’ towards the Bakerloo/Northern concourse. During the blockade didn’t the route down the escalators end up connecting to the main station peak hours subway?

Most likely, as that's where the connection will be now according to the maps.
​

So, the underground ticket hall is actually on street level / ground floor of the international terminal. Local Geography and existing buildings meant that the orchestra pit is actually on level 1 with the main terminal platforms on level 2. The stairs at Victory arch only take you from level 1 to level 2 as the ground here is raised.

The underground ticket hall feels as if its in the basement because the road alongside the international terminal slopes to be above ground level at the orchestra pit end.

There are new stairs/esclators where the old escalators used to be going from orchestra pit to the underground ticket hall. These appear to be double the width of the old escalators - marked on some plans in blue. Once these are in use, I've heard strong indications that the old stairs next to the platform 18 buffers (with their crazy angles) are likely to be replaced by a lift to the main concourse.

As for the lift from the international concourse, this arrives at ground level above to the left of the Bakerloo line triple escalator (If looking from the road). It will then have a corridor to go over both sets of Bakerloo escalators. It will then meet the new lower shopping arcade. If walking from the lift (away from the Northern Line escalators), you will need to turn 90 degrees left, walk alongside the double Bakerloo escalator to your left (behind a wall) and then should be able to turn 90 degrees left into the ticket hall, next to where the peak hour passage way joins. The lift is marked in green on some plans, with the corridors in blue.

There appears to be escalators direct from the platforms to both levels of the shopping arcade. For the underground you would want the lower arcade whereas for the orchestra pit you will want the upper level.

 

[swt_passenger]

That’s helpful moley - I think I’m having difficulty visualising/remembering what’s outside the “red lines”. Also, maybe minor changes within the LU station boundary don’t actually need planning permission.

 

[Helvellyn]

I found this image of the original vision. Victory Arch would be behind the viewer and would have level access through to the lower level concourse in front. There would have been lifts/escalators up to the concourse for platforms 1-19 on the left.

https://www.railengineer.uk/2015/03/25/major-changes-due-at-waterloo/

 

[ijmad]

From what I can tell from the planning application, to use the new escalators to get to the tube you will:

• Descend from Platform Level (02) to Orchestra Pit level (01)
• Walk forward through a wide set of ticket gates
• Descend down a further pair of escalators from Orchestra Pit Level (01) to LU Level (00)
• Walk down a corridor at this level under the platforms
• Make a right turn in to the peak hours subway
• Turn left twice (back on yourself) to access the tube ticket hall through its existing entrance from the Peak hours subway

Is that right?

I think the doors you can see at 1:20 in this Geoff Marshall video are the doors to the end of the peak hours subway.

I think what @moley posted about the lift route seems correct from how I read the plans.

 

[DPWH]

I'm sure regular commuters will soon get the hang of it.