Waterloo Station Upgrade

[ijmad]

It would appear the new route to the tube is open to the public, as per IanVisits (which has some photos):

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/03/12/see-the-newish-entrance-to-waterloo-tube-station/

 

[paok]

It would appear the new route to the tube is open to the public, as per IanVisits (which has some photos):

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/03/12/see-the-newish-entrance-to-waterloo-tube-station/

That's been open for a while. It's the access to the orchestra pit that isn't open yet.

 

[Goldfish62]

Maybe I'm imagining it, but I'm sure more hoardings and fencing have appeared in the orchestra pit. It certainly looks more cluttered than it did a few weeks ago when it appeared that it was close to opening.

The extra services that SWR will be running from May will require full use of all the platforms and, ideally, full pedestrian access through this part of the station from then as well. At a guess that's now the deadline being worked towards.

 

[hwl]

Maybe I'm imagining it, but I'm sure more hoardings and fencing have appeared in the orchestra pit. It certainly looks more cluttered than it did a few weeks ago when it appeared that it was close to opening.

The extra services that SWR will be running from May will require full use of all the platforms and, ideally, full pedestrian access through this part of the station from then as well. At a guess that's now the deadline being worked towards.

Possibly laydown space for the lift installation that is due to start soon?

 

[Goldfish62]

Possibly laydown space for the lift installation that is due to start soon?

Which lift is this? I thought they had all been installed.

 

[hwl]

Which lift is this? I thought they had all been installed.

I though 2 shafts were still lacking innards the last I heard.

 

[Goldfish62]

I though 2 shafts were still lacking innards the last I heard.

If you mean the ones from concourse level to the orchestra pit they're installed and working, just not open yet.

 

[Deepgreen]

I was at the Waterloo International side on Wednesday and was aghast to see that SWR have seemingly seen fit to start dispensing with the word 'station' in favour of the phrase 'calling point'!! The main indicator screen had trains described with both terms, and it beggars belief that anyone in their right mind would see a need to replace the word 'station' with a more cumbersome and unhelpful phrase! This is, in microcosm, symptomatic what is wrong with the railway today - a lack of common sense and commonality of terms which would present a unified and familiar message to passengers. Each TOC seems to think that it must 're-invent' things which have been in the public consciousness for generations/centuries. Is there no-one at any of them that has the vaguest idea of what constitutes good communications? Pathetic.

 

[HowardGWR]

I was at the Waterloo International side on Wednesday and was aghast to see that SWR have seemingly seen fit to start dispensing with the word 'station' in favour of the phrase 'calling point'!! The main indicator screen had trains described with both terms, and it beggars belief that anyone in their right mind would see a need to replace the word 'station' with a more cumbersome and unhelpful phrase! This is, in microcosm, symptomatic what is wrong with the railway today - a lack of common sense and commonality of terms which would present a unified and familiar message to passengers. Each TOC seems to think that it must 're-invent' things which have been in the public consciousness for generations/centuries. Is there no-one at any of them that has the vaguest idea of what constitutes good communications? Pathetic.

Indeed. Apparently the 1805 calls at stations. Weird!

 

[theironroad]

Things are slowly taking shape at Waterloo.
View attachment 59311 View attachment 59312 View attachment 59313 View attachment 59314 View attachment 59315 View attachment 59316 View attachment 59317

Nice pics!

 

[theironroad]

Indeed. Apparently the 1805 calls at stations. Weird!

While I really can't get exercised about the change like the other poster, it doesn't seem very helpful and station would be preferable. The only rationale I can think of is that some operators use calling points in their on board announcements so maybe they are trying to harmonize things. Or maybe not....

 

[Deepgreen]

While I really can't get exercised about the change like the other poster, it doesn't seem very helpful and station would be preferable. The only rationale I can think of is that some operators use calling points in their on board announcements so maybe they are trying to harmonize things. Or maybe not....

Indeed, maybe so, but the question is why do any operators use "calling points" rather than "stations"?! "Stations" is concise, accurate and time-honoured/ingrained in the public consciousness. There is absolutely no reason to change it to a longer, less familiar and potentially confusing term ("Call Points", which is similar, means something very different). It "exercises" me because there is a fad of inventing new terms all over the railway (and elsewhere) when existing ones are appropriate and well-known. Most spoken and written messages are becoming ever more elaborate, cumbersome and time/space-consuming, when they need to be the opposite. There is a mini-industry devoted to trying to sound 'modern' and 'innovative' where doing so is simply worse! The fundamental principle of good communications (that concise is best) seems to have been lost.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Indeed, maybe so, but the question is why do any operators use "calling points" rather than "stations"?! "Stations" is concise, accurate and time-honoured/ingrained in the public consciousness. There is absolutely no reason to change it to a longer, less familiar and potentially confusing term ("Call Points", which is similar, means something very different). It "exercises" me because there is a fad of inventing new terms all over the railway (and elsewhere) when existing ones are appropriate and well-known. Most spoken and written messages are becoming ever more elaborate, cumbersome and time/space-consuming, when they need to be the opposite. There is a mini-industry devoted to trying to sound 'modern' and 'innovative' where doing so is simply worse! The fundamental principle of good communications (that concise is best) seems to have been lost.

On this subject, why do they announce where the train is calling at, "Station Stops??"

 

[theironroad]

On this subject, why do they announce where the train is calling at, "Station Stops??"

Iirc this came about in the days before modern rolling stock which needs a staff member to enable the doors to be released before they can be actually opened. On older stock , such as slam door where the door was in total control of the passenger, I believe there may have been some incidents where the train stopped at a signal before the station and passengers opened the door thinking they were at the platform (possibly when dark and acting in auto mode and tired). In the legalistic society we were becoming, the guard announcing the 'next stop' is xxx was taken too literally and people were too stupid to differentiate between the next physical time the train stopped (signal) and the intention of the next station to be stopped at.

Both 'station stop' and 'calling point's should be unecessary terms really.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

SWR announcemens are also changing for no obvious reasons. At Feltham trains are now anounced as "the next train to depart from platform X is the..."

Rather than the traditional "next train to arrive at platform X is..."

 

[Goldfish62]

Iirc this came about in the days before modern rolling stock which needs a staff member to enable the doors to be released before they can be actually opened. On older stock , such as slam door where the door was in total control of the passenger, I believe there may have been some incidents where the train stopped at a signal before the station and passengers opened the door thinking they were at the platform (possibly when dark and acting in auto mode and tired). In the legalistic society we were becoming, the guard announcing the 'next stop' is xxx was taken too literally and people were too stupid to differentiate between the next physical time the train stopped (signal) and the intention of the next station to be stopped at.

Both 'station stop' and 'calling point's should be unecessary terms really.

That's correct. It was introduced in the early 70s following a number of incidents

 

[Goldfish62]

SWR announcemens are also changing for no obvious reasons. At Feltham trains are now anounced as "the next train to depart from platform X is the..."

Rather than the traditional "next train to arrive at platform X is..."

But it is perfectly correct though. I'm not sure one is any more traditional than the other??

 

[Goldfish62]

Things seem to have ground to a halt if not gone backwards in the past few weeks. The orchestra pit resembles work in progress more than it has done recently, with barriers and materials reappearing. Some of the newly installed wall panelling has been removed. However, there seems to be very little visible activity, with only a handful of workers on site.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

But it is perfectly correct though. I'm not sure one is any more traditional than the other??

Yes both are technically and grammatically correct, however at non terminal SWR and previously SWT stations I have previously only heard the "next train to arrive at..." version.

 

[Bessie]

Will all platforms 20-24 be open in time for new May timetable? As others have noted this project seems to have drifted

 

[Goldfish62]

Will all platforms 20-24 be open in time for new May timetable? As others have noted this project seems to have drifted

I think P23 and 24 are needed for the extra peak services on the Windsor Lines and I can't see any reason why they can't open.

The orchestra pit is a different matter. It fluctuates between looking about to open and being taken apart again. What strikes me is the general lack of activity. There only seems to be a skeleton workforce on site. I was told by an informed source recently that it should have been fully complete and open by December, which then slipped to the end of February. It has clearly slipped again to I don't know when..

 

[Tio Terry]

I think P23 and 24 are needed for the extra peak services on the Windsor Lines and I can't see any reason why they can't open.

The orchestra pit is a different matter. It fluctuates between looking about to open and being taken apart again. What strikes me is the general lack of activity. There only seems to be a skeleton workforce on site. I was told by an informed source recently that it should have been fully complete and open by December, which then slipped to the end of February. It has clearly slipped again to I don't know when..

Presumably there are some restrictions on what you can do with 20 to 24 if the orchestra pit area is not finished because it is the escape route if, for any reason, 20 to 24 have to be evacuated?

 

[Goldfish62]

Presumably there are some restrictions on what you can do with 20 to 24 if the orchestra pit area is not finished because it is the escape route if, for any reason, 20 to 24 have to be evacuated?

They were in full use without access to the orchestra pit during the Waterloo blockade.

 

[swt_passenger]

Presumably there are some restrictions on what you can do with 20 to 24 if the orchestra pit area is not finished because it is the escape route if, for any reason, 20 to 24 have to be evacuated?

There are additional escape stairs towards the country end of the platforms as well, but as Goldfish62 mentioned they have already been in full use.

 

[Tio Terry]

There are additional escape stairs towards the country end of the platforms as well, but as Goldfish62 mentioned they have already been in full use.

Stairs are fine for able bodied but some provision would be necessary for PRM. It's OK if they have been in use with suitable emergency facilities but if any of the on-going works have affected those facilities then either other facilities need to be provided or special arrangements made. That would include appropriate signage and updating the emergency arrangements plan.

 

[swt_passenger]

Stairs are fine for able bodied but some provision would be necessary for PRM. It's OK if they have been in use with suitable emergency facilities but if any of the on-going works have affected those facilities then either other facilities need to be provided or special arrangements made. That would include appropriate signage and updating the emergency arrangements plan.

They are no worse than the other 19 platforms without the direct orchestra pit route, and probably far better...

 

[Tio Terry]

They are no worse than the other 19 platforms without the direct orchestra pit route, and probably far better...

You probably know better than me. 1 to 19 have level access to the concourse via the ticket gate line, I thought the orchestra pit area was being rafted over to provide the same kind of level access? If it's done then there is no problem, perhaps I've misinterpreted the orchestra pit works still on-going as meaning that route is not usable. The only other route I know of is via the hole in the wall between 19 and 20, doubt that would be suitable as an emergency exit for 20 to 24. But I'm sure Network Rail will have it all in hand, in fairness they are pretty good with that sort of thing.

 

[swt_passenger]

You probably know better than me. 1 to 19 have level access to the concourse via the ticket gate line, I thought the orchestra pit area was being rafted over to provide the same kind of level access? If it's done then there is no problem, perhaps I've misinterpreted the orchestra pit works still on-going as meaning that route is not usable. The only other route I know of is via the hole in the wall between 19 and 20, doubt that would be suitable as an emergency exit for 20 to 24. But I'm sure Network Rail will have it all in hand, in fairness they are pretty good with that sort of thing.

Oh I see. Yes, the orchestra pit is bridged over rather than rafted over, it’s quite a wide bridge which I take to be the main route out towards the concourse, and that bridge has been open and in use since summer 2017, although it had temporary side walls and a temporary roof initially. But going down the stairs at the platform end to the orchestra pit level itself isn’t really a main route to anywhere except the new toilets, yet. There’s also access from the mid platform area down two flights to the LU Bakerloo/Northern level, which corresponds to the P1-19 access to LU via the peak hours subway.
Lastly, and as you already mentioned, there is still the existing ability to get through from P20 to P19 and use the P18/19 barrier line alongside the LU escalators. That route has had a ramp added as well.

The station plan in image 4 of post #119 shows all the various stairs, ramps and lifts, as well as the bridge, but not the dedicated escape stairs towards the country end as the full platform length is not shown.

AIUI there is no specific requirement for “PRM capable” evacuation from the outer end of platforms, based on brand new builds such as Reading or London Bridge. Stairs is all you get.

 

[Ianno87]

Oh I see. Yes, the orchestra pit is bridged over rather than rafted over, it’s quite a wide bridge which I take to be the main route out towards the concourse, and that bridge has been open and in use since summer 2017, although it had temporary side walls and a temporary roof initially. But going down the stairs at the platform end to the orchestra pit level itself isn’t really a main route to anywhere except the new toilets, yet. There’s also access from the mid platform area down two flights to the LU Bakerloo/Northern level, which corresponds to the P1-19 access to LU via the peak hours subway.
Lastly, and as you already mentioned, there is still the existing ability to get through from P20 to P19 and use the P18/19 barrier line alongside the LU escalators. That route has had a ramp added as well.

The station plan in image 4 of post #119 shows all the various stairs, ramps and lifts, as well as the bridge, but not the dedicated escape stairs towards the country end as the full platform length is not shown.

AIUI there is no specific requirement for “PRM capable” evacuation from the outer end of platforms, based on brand new builds such as Reading or London Bridge. Stairs is all you get.

IIRC the country end of London Bridge have a PRM refuge point adjacent to the stairs, beyond the limit of the canopies.

 

[swt_passenger]

IIRC the country end of London Bridge have a PRM refuge point adjacent to the stairs, beyond the limit of the canopies.

Yes, similarly at Reading. It’s got signs and communication and presumably that’s where planned assistance will be provided to cross the tracks.