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Waterloo to Aylesford routeing.

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moonrakerz

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Would very much appreciate some help on which routes are permitted on a certain journey.
Have tried the Routeing Guide and my local station - even more confused !

Journey is from Waterloo East to Aylesford on an Off Peak Return.
The booking website (FGW) says the route is via/change at Strood.
However, if this journey is done from Woking (of course this also takes you through Waterloo East) the route given is via Strood OR Paddock Wood.
To my simple mind it would follow that the same would/should apply from Waterloo East - but I can't get an answer one way or the other.

Any thoughts ?

TIA
 
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telstarbox

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Aylesford is part of Maidstone Group.
The permitted routes from London Group to Maidstone Group include Map LK which allows travel via Tonbridge and Paddock Wood.
 

moonrakerz

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Would very much appreciate some help on this one please.

Standard return (railcard) from Waterloo East to Aylesford is £16.10 (via Strood) or £18.35 via Tonbridge/Paddock Wood. Always used to go Strood way to save a few pennies. Have always assumed that cheaper ticket is not valid via Tonbridge.

Did Woking to Aylesford on one occasion, noticed ticket routeing gave a plethora of routes: via Strood/Tonbridge/St Pancras/Maidstone - all at the same fare of £19.

Next time I did the trip (via Strood) I asked the guard (to Strood) if the return half of my ticket was valid via Tonbridge. He said "yes". I asked the same question of the staff at Strood (whilst waiting for my connection), the two men on the barrier "thought" yes and checked with the ticket office - another "yes". I also asked the guard on the train to Aylesford who also said "yes".
This has confused me - the ticketing system says one thing - but the staff seem to say something different.
The last two times I have gone out via Strood and come back via Tonbrdge (nicer scenery/better rolling stock) - my ticket has not been queried. BUT - I still have a nagging doubt as to whether my ticket is actually valid for this routeing.

I have looked at the Routeing Guide - it would make more sense to me if it was written Japanese :roll:

Can anyone give a definitive answer ? Thanks...........
 

soil

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There is no 'via Tonbridge'/'via Strood'. There is 'Plus High Speed' and 'Not Valid On High Speed'.

Plus High Speed is from St Pancras. Not Valid on high Speed is what you want from Waterloo East
 

moonrakerz

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There is no 'via Tonbridge'/'via Strood'.

The tickets themselves do not say via Strood or Tonbridge -but the booking engines do - and they charge different fares for the two routes.

The first screen shot shows the £16-10 fare selected, the only trains shown as being available on this fare are Via Strood. I have selected the 10:42.

18549046b5a92e88d95d3fe003a56843fb503342.jpg



The second screen shot shows the £16.10 fare selected, but I have asked for the route for a “non-available” train at 11:18. This shows the route to be via Tonbridge.

18549048b53b309744d9e94bd55ee3230839f369.jpg


The third screen shot shows the £18.35 fare selected. Not surprisingly, both the 10:42 via Strood and the 11:18 via Tonbridge are available at this fare.
18549049ad1752c9671a046b1a7ecb98b0055b14.jpg


Hope that clarifies my question a bit further.


There is 'Plus High Speed' and 'Not Valid On High Speed'.

Plus High Speed is from St Pancras. Not Valid on high Speed is what you want from Waterloo East

There is another oddity on these tickets too. Which I won't pursue..........I normally have a ticket marked "Not valid on HS1" but on one occasion - on a cheap ticket -it did say "valid on HS1" - so I did take the opportunity to try one of the High Speed trains :D
 

maniacmartin

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The screenshots you posted do not show anything saying "via Strood". It is merely showing an example itinerary for the ticket.

I've search for a return with a railcard, and if you do the same but instead of clicking a time, click a ticket price instead, it will grey out some of the times (the St Pancras ones), leaving some itineraries via Strood and some via Tonbridge. You can then click Buy Now and buy the ticket without specifying which route you need to take.

You can find the names of how the tickets will print at the unofficial site BRFares
 
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moonrakerz

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The screenshots you posted do not show anything saying "via Strood". It is merely showing an example itinerary for the ticket.

That is my point. The ticket does not give a route - but the booking engine does. It appears to state quite clearly that if I wish to travel via Tonbridge then I must pay the higher fare. I'm not sure how you can describe the route shown on the booking engine as an "example itinerary" - the route is tied to the fare ??

I've search for a return with a railcard, and if you do the same but instead of clicking a time, click a ticket price instead, it will grey out some of the times (the St Pancras ones), leaving some itineraries via Strood and some via Tonbridge. You can then click Buy Now and buy the ticket without specifying which route you need to take.

I did exactly what you suggest to obtain the screen shots I posted. The services which are greyed out are described as being "unavailable for your selected fare". The only fares not greyed out are via Strood.
In fact, the greyed out fares not only include the Tonbridge route but the peak services. This tells me I cannot use an off peak ticket at £16.10 on a peak service (eg: the 0844) - therefore the same logic tells me that I cannot travel via Tonbridge (at any time) for £16.10. It quite clearly states: "your chosen fare is not valid on this service"

You can then click Buy Now and buy the ticket without specifying which route you need to take.

Again, this is my point - I am buying a ticket which does not indicate a route, when the booking engine clearly shows that one route (Tonbridge) is not available at the cheaper fare. Surely the fare I select specifies which route to take ? How do I persuade the ticket inspector that my "cheap" (Strood) ticket is valid on the "dear" (Tonbridge) route ? - when other SE trains staff have told me that it is OK.

How many times have on train ticket inspectors been told: "the bloke on the platform/other train/ticket office said it was OK to travel on this train with this ticket" :lol:
 

island

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The conditions of your ticket do not say you have to travel via Strood. The route will print as "NOT VALID ON HS1". That means what it says on the tin: the ticket is not valid on High Speed 1 route between Ashford Intl, Ebbsfleet Intl, and St Pancakes Intl. It is perfectly valid on any other permitted route.

Validity is determined by the National Rail Conditions of Carriage, and not the Southeastern website.
 

Paul Kelly

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I think there is an error in the booking engine. I don't think either fare is valid on the route via Tonbridge because the relevant Routeing Point, Maidstone Group, fails the fares check - by this I mean that fares from Maidstone to London are more expensive than from Aylesford to London, so you are not permitted to travel via Maidstone (on a London Terminals to Aylesford ticket). For tickets from a different origin, the permitted routes may be different.
 
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Paul Kelly

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The linked thread is out of date though. Aylesford isn't a member of Maidstone Group now - is this just a recent change? Maybe another good example of permitted route removal by stealth?
 

DeeGee

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NRE has a £13.20 return via Strood, which is the same price as via Maidstone Barracks/East to Victoria, but considerably less than via highspeed to St Pancras which is almost 10 quid more.

NRE is also not showing fares, although is showing times, via Tonbridge.
 

soil

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The linked thread is out of date though. Aylesford isn't a member of Maidstone Group now - is this just a recent change? Maybe another good example of permitted route removal by stealth?

It could be that due to the disgracefully amateur and shoddy implementation of the new routeing guide that they f***ed this one up the way they did Blackwater and Farnborough Group.
 
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