Watford Landslide 350 expected to be scrapped (according to Watford newspaper)

[Class377/5]

First of the 'first generation' Desiro is going to scrapped it seems with 350264 off on truck to Germany.

http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/ne...akes_final_journey_to_scrapyard/?ref=mrb&lp=7

The damaged coaches from the train which derailed near Watford Junction are making their final journey back to the manufacturer.

The London Midland train hit a landslide during torrential rain on September 16 and was then struck by another service, leaving two passengers injured.

London Midland 350 264, the most badly damaged unit, has now been split up and was removed from the Watford goods yard, coach by coach, by a haulage firm over several days for its transit back to Siemens in Germany.

It is expected that the unit will be scrapped after a damage assessment is carried out.

The final coach was cleared from the goods yard on October 16 but not before it was daubed with graffiti.

 

[D365]

Glad that nobody was seriously injured in the incident. I have a spontaneous question here; if the non-pantograph intermediate carriage is undamaged, would it be possible to stick that into a Class 360/1? So that if Heathrow decides to sell their Class 360/2s, there would be six five-car units available.

 

[swt class 450]

First of the 'first generation' Desiro is going to scrapped it seems with 350264 off on truck to Germany.

http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/ne...akes_final_journey_to_scrapyard/?ref=mrb&lp=7

What a shame that 350 264 is getting scrapped. It seems too good to be scrapped. Are London Midland likely to get anything to replace it? Also is there any news on what is happening with 350 233 (the other unit involved)?

 

[D365]

Are London Midland likely to get anything to replace it?

I'd imagine them either picking up a few more Class 319s (or 321s) in the short-term, or a mix of Class 323/350/360s in a few years - whichever is more suitable.

 

[J-2739]

What a shame that 350 264 is getting scrapped. It seems too good to be scrapped. Are London Midland likely to get anything to replace it? Also is there any news on what is happening with 350 233 (the other unit involved)?

They'd probably get hold of the TPE 350s once they become available.

 

[DasLunatic]

Does this make the Class 350 the first post-privitization class to have a whole train scrapped?

The 390 wrecked at Grayrigg doesn't count - there are still extant coaches parked up somewhere AFAIK

 

[507021]

They'd probably get hold of the TPE 350s once they become available.

That won't be for a few years though.

Shame to see 350264 is getting scrapped, especially as it was one I still needed.

 

[Crossover]

I would have to mention that the article suggests scrapping isn't certain, though seemingly likely - this will presumably depend on the result of the inspection

Does this make the Class 350 the first post-privitization class to have a whole train scrapped?

The 390 wrecked at Grayrigg doesn't count - there are still extant coaches parked up somewhere AFAIK

I think written off would be a better term (see ScotRail 156 which rose from the ashes) - there is every possibility that even if written off, it will be kept in storage for spares (most of the coaches will be probably in fairly good shape) and will probably end up in the same way as the 390

 

[causton]

This news story is very old* and out of date, not to mention inaccurate.

As far as I know, not all of the train has been sent for 'scrap' and there are rumours of the rest of the train being formed into some sort of 'hybrid'. As usual with LM, getting any useful information is like getting blood from a stone though

*I know it was posted today, not blaming the OP, but as the article itself says "The final coach was cleared from the goods yard[sic] on October 16" so the article is just shy of a month overdue!!!

 

[sprinterguy]

That's surprising, as I've never considered London Midland's West Coast operations to be flush with spare stock. Having one less unit surely isn't going to make reliable diagramming any easier, and it seems that the comprehensive reconstructions that BR would sometimes undertake following accident damage; 47522 springs to mind, or even the 156s involved in collisions on the S&C; are a thing of a past.

 

[RobShipway]

That's surprising, as I've never considered London Midland's West Coast operations to be flush with spare stock. Having one less unit surely isn't going to make reliable diagramming any easier, and it seems that the comprehensive reconstructions that BR would sometimes undertake following accident damage; 47522 springs to mind, or even the 156s involved in collisions on the S&C; are a thing of a past.

Not sure if the class 350's do, but if they have a black box in the same way that airline planes do then I suspect that all the data needed would be gained from that wherever it is located within the train.

In the short term as has been said, I can see LM having more class 319's if they are available until the class 350's with TPE become 2018.

 

[SWT_USER]

LM will be delighted, it will give them an excuse for short formations off peak and save them some track access charges

 

[Class377/5]

LM will be delighted, it will give them an excuse for short formations off peak and save them some track access charges

Didn't think LM ran anything other than 4 cars (or splitters) so short forming would mean cancelling off peak?

Am hearing from various people better informed than me that this might not be the whole truth. If I hear more' I will update accordingly.

 

[D365]

Not sure if the class 350's do, but if they have a black box in the same way that airline planes do then I suspect that all the data needed would be gained from that wherever it is located within the train.

Don't know what data there is left to investigate as the conclusion is clearly that the units were damaged in a landslide and the subsequent derailment.

 

[MatthewRead]

Let's hope this means the class 319's get more regular diagrams

 

[tsr]

Not sure if the class 350's do, but if they have a black box in the same way that airline planes do then I suspect that all the data needed would be gained from that wherever it is located within the train.

They will have an onboard recording system and the data will have been extracted quite some considerable time ago - I would not be surprised if it was already being physically recovered once the evacuation was organised and underway. Such is the usual keenness to gain data on any significant incident, ranging from TPWS activations through to accidents such as major derailments.

Didn't think LM ran anything other than 4 cars (or splitters) so short forming would mean cancelling off peak?

They run 350s in formations of up to 12 coaches.

 

[D365]

Let's hope this means the class 319's get more regular diagrams

Out of interest, why do you always ask about older EMUs being the first choice for any operator?

They will have an onboard recording system and the data will have been extracted quite some considerable time ago - I would not be surprised if it was already being physically recovered once the evacuation was organised and underway. Such is the usual keenness to gain data on any significant incident, ranging from TPWS activations through to accidents such as major derailments.

Yep, best to extract data ASAP. Don't want to risk it being tampered with or being lost.

 

[tsr]

Yep, best to extract data ASAP. Don't want to risk it being tampered with or being lost.

I quite agree. The more accuracy in the data provided to any investigation, the better.

(The "possible" bit of ASAP is key though. Not saying it applies here, but I could tell more than one story about managers wandering around unscrewing the interior panels on my trains to get to OTMR interfaces for a download of a prior incident, whilst on the move but without telling the next crew what they're doing - something which does not usually leave me best pleased...)

 

[westcoaster]

I think what is more likely is that it is of back to Siemens for assessment then repair, is it even confirmed it's of to Germany.

 

[D365]

(The "possible" bit of ASAP is key though. Not saying it applies here, but I could tell more than one story about managers wandering around unscrewing the interior panels on my trains to get to OTMR interfaces for a download of a prior incident, whilst on the move but without telling the next crew what they're doing - something which does not usually leave me best pleased...)

Is some kind of authorisation usually required in order to proceed with a download?

 

[westcoaster]

Is some kind of authorisation usually required in order to proceed with a download?

No, no authorisation needed. Downloads can be random, as part of our SQMS, for an incident or for investigation, can also be by fleet staff for faults and failures.

 

[43096]

First of the 'first generation' Desiro is going to scrapped it seems with 350264 off on truck to Germany.

http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/ne...akes_final_journey_to_scrapyard/?ref=mrb&lp=7

So where has the local rag got its gen from? Newspapers are not known for their accuracy on reporting railway matters...

Is it from London Midland, Porterbrook or Siemens? Or from a spotter who was there?

It may be a write-off or it may not. It could just as easily be going back to Siemens for repair, just as it could be going for scrap. I'd like to see something definite from an authoritative source...

 

[TheEdge]

...and it seems that the comprehensive reconstructions that BR would sometimes undertake following accident damage; 47522 springs to mind, or even the 156s involved in collisions on the S&C; are a thing of a past.

Are they though? Look at 156478 and 170204. Both sustained serious damage and both are being repaired and returned to service. Maybe Siemens are doing an assessment and possible rebuild in Germany and a local journo has put 1+1 together and got 3.

 

[Bevan Price]

I imagine that its fate depends on the state of the frames. Bodywork repairs are relatively simple (if expensive), but if the coach frames are bent, that can be a serious problem. Replacement might be easier - but Siemens no longer build 350s.

 

[tsr]

No, no authorisation needed. Downloads can be random, as part of our SQMS, for an incident or for investigation, can also be by fleet staff for faults and failures.

You don't need authorisation to download when onboard, as such, provided your professional duties require it - but pulling panels off a moving train to do so, without a) telling crew or b) having any visible uniform or ID is a different matter entirely...

It was a footnote with an anecdote - that'll do - rant over!

 

[59CosG95]

I imagine that its fate depends on the state of the frames. Bodywork repairs are relatively simple (if expensive), but if the coach frames are bent, that can be a serious problem. Replacement might be easier - but Siemens no longer build 350s.

Agreed. LM seems to need all the capacity it can get its mitts on, especially out of Euston. I suspect, if any scrapping is done, it'll be on the coaches that came out worst, with new-build shells being constructed and given the same numbers, à la 321420 post-Watford South.

EDIT: Wikipedia has apparently been edited using the same source as posted here to say "On the 10th November 2016, 350264 was seen on a low-loader being taken to Germany to be scrapped!" Seems rather unprofessional to me as edits go. Besides, we've only heard from ine source. If London Midland/NR/Porterbrook publish a statement on 264, THEN I'll buy it, but not one from the local rag.

 

[D365]

Agreed. LM seems to need all the capacity it can get its mitts on, especially out of Euston. I suspect, if any scrapping is done, it'll be on the coaches that came out worst, with new-build shells being constructed and given the same numbers, à la 321420 post-Watford South.

To be honest I doubt that. The replacement 321 carriages were built at a time when safety regulations weren't changing as often as they do now, hence why no replacement carriages were built for 365526.

 

[fgwrich]

I'm sure there's been at least one damaged 450 which has returned back to Germany at some point as well.

 

[bramling]

Didn't think LM ran anything other than 4 cars (or splitters) so short forming would mean cancelling off peak?

I think he was being sarcastic about LM's tendency to run grossly overcrowded 4-car trains at off-peak times, suggesting being a unit down could be used as some form of 'justification' for this practice.

 

[Bigfoot]

The Germans come over to repair crash damage that is more minor. I would suggest that it's returned for detailed inspection and potential repair quickest way of doing so is to transport the damaged coach to Germany.