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Ways to improve the First Glasgow Network

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duffers2324

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1 May 2014
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168
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Glasgow
I have started this thread to get peoples opinions on how they would like to see the First Glasgow Network improved, ie changes they might make to current services or new services or even bringing back some of the older routes and numbers again.

So a little bit of a fantasy thread but within reasonable means

This is just for route improvements or changes specifically rather than clogging up the general First Greater Glasgow thread.

so for eg

Service 1/a/b/c/d/e - Keep as currently although a slightly better evening timetable
Service 2- Fine as is although may help from some deckers
Service 3- Deckers on this route
Service 6- Try and keep deckers on the route and I think they should trim the route slightly to run between Clydebank Bus Station and East Kilbride Bus Station and replace the Calderwood section with the M1 local bus
Service 7- Could do with some deckers also gets quite busy between Summerston and City Section

New services

Bring back the 11 service between Robroyston and Clydebank with an every 30 mins frequency as well as the 16 again revised to run between Auchinairn, Westerhill and Drumchapel via Royston Road, City Centre, Charing Cross, Partick and Gartnavel hospital running say every 20 mins

Withdraw the M4 and 19/19a services

Improve some frequencies such as 57/a, 10, and 87 and 88 back to every 12 minutes off peak and maybe even every 10 mins during peak times
 
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Gingerbus1991

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992
I think new things should be tried, many route variations should be simplified, I don’t think the SimpliCITY branding makes sence either with regards to this.
Why can’t operators just find a simple yet attractive livery and stick with it, pitty we don’t see a Dark Grey/Strathclyde Red bus around glasgow.
Airport links in Glasgow as well need seriously looked at!
Route Connections as well to create more inter-suburban links,

Connect 87 <> 10 operating as the 100 via Killermont St and Hope St/Renfrew St to Silverburn of course on a 15 minute interval, with a Half-Hourly extension out to Neilston and Barrhead to compete with Mcgills 3 Service.

41 <> 9/9A with a new 300 route number, operating a combined 10 minute frequency Easterhouse to Paisley Rd West via the City Centre THEN from Paisley Rd West a 20 minute interval to Braehead via Penilee and another 20 minute split to Glasgow Airport via Paisley Town Centre.
Connecting paisley rd wst and paisley town centre to the Airport as well.
I understand this would reduce the frequency at Penilee to the City Centre by 10 minutes so I’d also take on McGills 17 with a New half-hourly 78 service, via Partick, QEUH, Penilee to Paisley from the City Centre, if timed properly is would maintain a 10 minute frequency to the City Centre from penilee, jointly between the new 78 or 300.

Continue the 77 half-hourly to the airport via Renfrew and change the 500 to coach operation for more comfort and to take the luggage need away from the interior.
I would have the 500 operate directly onto the motorway instead of using George Square etc.

Perhaps a new service from EK to the Airport considering EK is a particularly large extremity of glasgow, An hourly bus to the airport navigating the northside of glasgow such as Summerston, Drumchapel via the Clyde Tunnel.

The 38 and 38A I’d keep, considering they start and terminate in the same place with only alittle variation at the southside of the route.
The 38C as the 36 service considering in-part that it used to be the 36 route to Chryston anyways.
38E > 35 and the 38B > 37 changes.

Changing up the 34/34A as well, I’d have the 34 navigating Castlemilk to Glasgow University/Kelvingrove via QEUH/Clyde Tunnel and the 34A omitting QEUH but traveling via Govan, The Arc and onto Kelvingrove/Glasgow Uni as well.
Of course creating new links for possible students on the southside, including Govan whilst maintaining QEUH access on the 34.

The 7/7A renumbered to 62/62A, keeping them near the same numbering commonality, where the 64/65 operate on the South-East side of town, and the 60/61 at the northside of the city.
Summerston terminous would be ideal for opp-charge pylons for electric Volvo 7900e buses, provided that the glasgow young team left them alone.

The 1/1A as the dedicated Balloch services as they are or “The One” as its so called, of course the 1E becoming the 1B.
Newly Renumber the existing Helensburgh 1B as a new express limited-stop service, split this up to operate a service from Garelochhead/Feorlin Way to Glasgow via Helensburgh, Cardross, Colgrain, Dumbarton and on to Great Western Rd with Coaches.
I’d give the 1C and 1D new numbers and disassociate them from the one given that they don’t go nearer the extremity of the west coast.

I would actually reduce the 88 to a 20 minute frequency as well as reduce the 89 to an hourly service, but I’d re-introduce the x86 from Banton to Glasgow via Kilsyth, Croy/Train Station, Blackwood and the M80.
I’d bid for Canavans 43 service and see to operate that to bishopbriggs retail park every 20 mins to help replace the reduced 89 yet improving the frequency to strathkelvin.
An x88 peak service omitting Balgrayhill, Mavis Valley and Lenzie from Harestanes and on to a limited-stop service through bishopbriggs etc

The x85 would become the x85/x85a and I’d operate a Stagecoach-esque coach service on the x85A omitting Lenzie via Lenzie Bypass/Initiative Rd, the x85 would work alongside the x87 to maintain a 15 minute frequency through Lenzie to Glasgow.
Here is where I think the 10.3m 400 MMC’s that are used on this route become to small at peak through Lenzie.

I would also take Stagecoach on at there own game and operate Coaches from Cumbernauld to Glasgow as they did with First years ago.
But I would not operate these from the Bus Station, only the City Centre, as I read recently SPT are increasing the cost of departure from buchanan.
If in control of them I would also take on and upgrade the x36/x39 Midland Bluebird services, they’d be partly coach operated to partake in competition with Stagecoach East Scotlands services.

The 9 Service I’d simply maintain that as is with a raft of new high-spec buses for the route to completely go up against the 38, as both operators seem reluctant to really go for a much nicer vehicle on these routes.
I would also take on McGills in the Govan area with direct to City Centre services, as FiG's 3 takes far to long just for the centre etc.

I’d keep all the M buses on the basis that they are SPT subsidised, of course if there are ways in which they could be withdrawn in favour for a rerouted commercial service you would also be doing SPT a favour.

All of my views are based around the fact that there are so many different operators in Glasgow and much of the public don’t seemingly want to adopt the Tripper ticket, I’m a big fan of bus re-regulation, in this area anyways.

Some of these hypotheticals may make sense considering those who would travel to work in the city centre with there cars and park on the streets, john lewis multi-storey or the car park behind the bus station, these people may be disadvantaged when the LEZ is to take effect meaning the cheapest mode of transport is the bus.

Of course glasgows Subway also takes the focus off the LEZ for bus travel aroundthe City Centre.
 
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Yorks185

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23 Aug 2018
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34
Having visited Glasgow fairly frequently over the last few years,the route numbering system could do with a few tweaks (ironicly cleaning up the messy bits of Simplicity) I Also thing First could do more to fight back against Mcgills,not just on the main Paisley Rd Corridor but also on some slightly more unexpected routes,but would provide a number of new links what could help First.

Current "The One" Network


1/A Remain much the same,running between Balloch & Glasgow

2 Replaces 1B,Both Services run Hourly over the current route,as well as extending to Garelochead via Rhu (current 316 service) providing new links

X2 Replaces 1D to Mountblow,X3 replaces 1C to Drumchapel

This would mean there would be a more simple route set up along the main Pointhouse Rd into the City Cnt with routes 1/A,2,X2,X3 & X4. X3 also fits in with service 3 in the Drumchapel area.


Current Service 2 replaced by new service 62,with the Airdrie extentions replaced by new service 39


Current Services 7/A & 41

Current services between Glasgow & Rutherglen/Westburn unchanged,keeping the 7/A services to tie in with the 4-7 group of services running between Queens Pk & Glasgow City Cnt.

New Service 63 will run Summerston > Maryhill > Glasgow > Queenslie > Easterhouse will replace the cutback 7/A as well as merging it with the 41,numbered 63 to fit in with services 60/61


Current Service 10:

Split into 2 services:

10 Glasgow > Silverburn > Paisley
Every 30 Mins M-Sat,Twice per hour between Silverburn & Glasgow Sundays (running at 20/40 mins intervals)

11 Glasgow > Silverburn > Barrhead > Neilston
Every 30 Mins M-Sat,Hourly Sundays

These changes would see them compete against Mcgills services 3 & 6


Current "38" Network (plus X78)

36 - Rouken Glen > Glasgow City Cnt > Stepps > Chyston
37 - Rouken Glen > Glasgow City Cnt > Barlanark
Every 30 Mins M-Sat,60 Mins Sundays repacing routes 38B/C,using Double Deckers

38 - Newton Mearns > Glasgow City Cnt > Easterhouse
38A - Eastwood Toll > Glasgow City Cnt > Easterhouse
Every 20 Mins (Each) M-Sat,60 Mins (Each) Sundays using Double Deckers

39 - Rouken Glen > Glasgow City Cnt > Baillieston > Airdrie/Eurocentre
Every 30 mins M-Sat,60 Mins Sundays replacing routes 38B/C plus the Airdrie Extentions on service 2,using Single deckers

X38 Newton Mearns > M8 > Glasgow City Cnt
Peak time express service replacing service X78


Current Service 77:

Split into 3 services

77 Glasgow > Partick > Braehead > Glasgow Airport
Every 30 Mins Daily as present

78 Glasgow > Partick > Braehead > Renfrew > Paisley
Every 30 Mins M-Sat,60 Mins Sundays extending 2 of the current short journeys per hour to Paisley,competing against Mcgills on service 21

79 Glasgow > Partick > Braehead > Renfrew > Erskine
Every 30 Mins M-Sat,60 Mins Sundays extending 2 of the current short journeys per hour to Erskine,competing against Mcgills on Service 23


Cumbernauld Express:

Current service X3 will be renumbered X30

New Service X31 Glasgow > M8 > Seafar > Cumbernauld > Croy > Kilsyth
Running Every 30 Mins M-Sat & Hourly on Sundays,competing against Stagecoach service X25 & Canavan service 43
 

duffers2324

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Interesting so far seems the Paisley road corridor is one area that needs sort of fixed out to compete against McGills, tbf I don't have a problem with the current B7RLES that run on the 9 services for the most part and think that in general they are good buses and look quite smart in the branding, granted they may need a little bit of a refresh inside but there could be a lot worse running on it such as Tridents but those seem to be reserved for the 10 seemingly at times.

In regards to the change and split of the 7/A and running it between just the City and Rutherglen and the addition of a new service 63 running between Summerston and Easterhouse what would replace the section of route between Summerston and City as the 7/A currently run from Summerston via Cadder, Lambhill, and Possilpark before the City Centre.

I can see the 1 service being possibly upgraded in the future again and agree that there should be different numbers for the 1C and D possibly try a 42 service again from Barlanark to City replacing the 38B but then continuing on the current 1C route from Argyle St to Drumchapel. Even just run the 1D as a different number and make it a Clydebank local bus between Mountblow and say the ASDA.

Also another possible new service could be between Partick and Antonine Park via Broomhill, Jordanhill, Lincoln Avenue, High Knightswood, Great Western Road, Drumry, Clydebank and Dalmuir numbered the 84 and running every 30 mins daytime and finishing around 8pm. Or as a person who has memories of this have the 23 run again but between High Possil and Knightswood say via Saracen Cross, City Centre, Charing Cross, University, Anniesland and Knightswood.
 

tbtc

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Fun place, Glasgow. In bus terms, I mean. Huge city but apart from the Stagecoach X19 (Easterhouse - QE Hospital), how many competitive commercial bus services are there entirely within the city boundaries? Sure, there's the McGills services to Renfrewshire and the Stagecoach services to Ayrshire/ North Lanarkshire (and beyond), Some local Avondale services around Clydebank but not much competition actually in the city. Citybus 17 and...? That means plenty of main roads lack competition - e.g. in another city something like Great Western Road would have independent operators along it - maybe the great suburban rail network means there's no point competing though.

There seem to be a few areas here things could be improved - the "SimpliCity" network gave places good simple services to the city centre but the evolving nature of Glasgow means that there are some other places that aren't served as well as they might be (Braehead, Silverburn, The Fort, the Hospitals etc). Feels like the operator is still serving markets to where older people shopped in the past (e.g. Parkhead) rather than places like the Fort (but, I appreciate, not all shopping is suitable by bus).

The north west seems pretty good - services have evolved to provide a faster journey into the city from Drumchapel(1C), Moutblow (1C), Knightswood (X4) etc than the previous journeys on the 44/62/66. Given the numbering on the 38B/C/D (where the north/eastern terminus shares its first letter with the letter on the destination screen) it'd have made more sense to me to have the 1D being the Dumchapel service and the 1C the one for parts of Clydebank but it's a bit fussy to amend that now!

In the north east, the X3 seems a relic of older times - I'd suggest they give Cumbernauld up to Stagecoach but the recent changes to the X36/X37 mean they are running more services in Cumbernauld than for a couple of years, so maybe they would be reluctant to do so at the moment.

Forgive me as I'm not sure what's tendered or not, but I think the 8/90 could be better marketed as a kind of fifteen minute (QE Hospital) Partick - Maryhill Road - Springburn - Parkhead service (e.g. renumber the 8 into the 91?). Then the southern side of the 90 (Parkhead - Mount Florida - QE Hospital) could be replaced by an extended 43, giving QE Hospital links to further afield (given that some hospital passengers and visitors will appreciate a slow/direct service).

In the south east, there are some oddly diverted routes that struggle to go in a straight line for more than a few hundred yards. The 65 being a prime example!

Any reason why the "long" journeys on the 7 corridor are the ones that take the diversion into Croftfoot, delaying longer distance passengers, whilst the "short" journeys run direct from Rutherglen (other than operational convenience for the bus operator)?

Ideally I'd get the crayons out and turn the 7/7a/65 into four half hourly routes (e.g. some of the short 7s extend to Halfway, so that the current 65 journeys turn into a circular looping back onto other short 7s, giving Kirkhill more services to central Glasgow), but since they've just given the 65 new branded buses that obviously isn't going to happen!

Rutherglen - Castlemilk always feels like one of those suburban links that is under-bussed - given the relative proximity and populations. But I say that as an outsider.

In the south west, the 3 looks like a horribly long route to keep reliable (given it starts in Drumchapel). Given that First have chopped a lot of the longer routes (e.g. the 9 no longer runs Drumchapel - Linwood), I'm surprised they haven't chopped the 3 at Springburn. That would give the potential to run an orbital service a bit like the 34. Say Rutherglen - Victoria Hospital - Shawlands - Silverburn - Pollock - Govan (maybe even with some services to the QE Hospital)? One other benefit of this is that it'd allow the route to be run by older buses (given the need to get lots of modern vehicles for the city centre emission zone). Wonder if there are any other routes that might face similar treatment (e.g. the 2 east of Ballieston/ north of Clydebank)?

(I'm trying to suggest a few "tweaks" rather than ripping up the whole network and starting again)
 

GaryMcEwan

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I'd be quite happy if they were to rip up the network and routes for all operators and go down a TFL style of operating via SPT. Unfortunately SPT are still stuck in the 70s with all it's zone, which could quite easily condensed instead of the current 77 zones that SPT covers.
 

PaulMc7

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I'd make some changes but not too many I think:

West Dunbartonshire

1/1A- Stay the same route but increase frequency between Glasgow and Dumbarton to cover reworked 1B/1C/1D
1B- remove and extend 206 to Helensburgh at least every 30mins
1C- Replace with X3 to separate from the 1s
1D- Renumber into a local service between Linnvale and Mountblow
1E- Could be used to fill gap left with withdrawn 1B between City Centre and Bowling but keep as current route to Balloch

206- Every 30mins-Helensburgh to Haldane
Every 30mins-Dumbarton to Haldane

Glasgow Southside:

3- Reroute between the city centre and Govan and go against the X19,23 and 26 through science centre

Start a new service to cover Silverburn through to Braehead via Crookston, Cardonald, QEUH and IKEA

Change 34 to cover 3 route in Shawlands to Pollokshaws West and then go Haggs Road back towards Dumbreck to go to normal route

Increase 34A frequency back to 15 mins in order to cover change to 34

Break the 77 into 3 separate routes after Braehead:

77 to Airport as normal
78- Paisley via Renfrew but through Renfrew High St to compete with 21,23 and X23 from McGills
79- Paisley via Hillington, Penilee, Sandwood Road then Glasgow Road

Swap 7 and 7A around between Aikenhead Road and Rutherglen so that the 7A route length is cut as it runs to Westburn

Glasgow West:

X4-Make peak time service only and extend 4s that run from Muirend to Knightswood from Broomhill every 30mins and 60mins at night

6- Operate between Clydebank and Battlefield every 7/8mins
6A-Change to X6 and run from Stockwell Place via Expressway, Crow Road, Anniesland then current 6A route
Create new service to run between City Centre and East Kilbride through current 6 route

Bring back the old 11 route but operate between Dalmuir and Castle Street via Clydebank, Yoker, Garscadden, Archerhill Road, Anniesland, Kelvindale, Hyndland, Byres Road then Sauchiehall St

South/North Lanarkshire

Run services X1 and X11 later into the day and have them leave M8 to go into Glasgow Fort to allow more alternatives from Lanarkshire

Add in new express service to East Kilbride from Charing Cross at peak times

Extra changes:

Split the 8 and 90 in half to run as follows:


8-QEUH to Robroyston 8A-Robroyston to Carmyle
90-Partick to Rutherglen 91-Parkhead to Braehead

Run more services to QEUH from north and east of Glasgow. Springburn, Parkhead, Rutherglen etc

Renumber 60A and reduce service to running between City Centre and Milngavie

Increase 60 back to every 10mins during the day and 30mins at night to cover this

Start new circular services through the following route every 20mins:

Clydebank-Hardgate-Faifley-Baljaffary-Bearsden-Canniesburn-Drumchapel-Drumry via Onslow Road-Clydebank Shopping Centre
 

PaulMc7

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Hey guys I would love to know what changes you would make to the current services First Glasgow operate.

I think First could benefit from reading forum engagement as I feel like we could offer some very creative suggestions
 

route101

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More deckers on the 2 for a start .

Later and earlier buses to and from town
 

PaulMc7

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More deckers on the 2 for a start .

Later and earlier buses to and from town

Yeah the 2 badly needs deckers tbh. Would love to see new deckers on it within the next year or so. Yeah main services could do with later buses. There's barely any after midnight even from the city centre
 

PaulMc7

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Now that the latest list of changes is out and set in for August 18th what else do you feel like First could do?

Extend the 43 through Swinton to Baillieston and Bargeddie and for me another thing I'd do is make the 61 go from Sandyhills to Clydebank and bring in a 61A to Milngavie and make the 60 one bus and go to Summerston to shorten the route length slightly
 

PaulMc7

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So guys, what would you suggest First could do in order to compete with Mcgills especially for Renfrewshire?

My main suggestions are to extend 2 77s to Erskine an hour to go against the 23/X23 and to extend the 9s to Johnstone/Linwood to compete with the 7/38s. I would also consider extending the 10 from Silverburn to Barrhead or Neilston now that Barrhead depot is closed too
 

sannox

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So guys, what would you suggest First could do in order to compete with Mcgills especially for Renfrewshire?

My main suggestions are to extend 2 77s to Erskine an hour to go against the 23/X23 and to extend the 9s to Johnstone/Linwood to compete with the 7/38s. I would also consider extending the 10 from Silverburn to Barrhead or Neilston now that Barrhead depot is closed too

I don't know how sensible it would be to compete. You kind of get the feeling both would lose out in the long run as they both use extra vehicles, split custom and eat into profits on the routes. It's not without the bounds of possibility McGill's fight back. It's almost returned to SBG structure- McGill's in Renfrewshire, Glasgow punters use First (in the main).

I think the one that makes the most sense would be Barrhead but not even sure First would want that route- most punters from Silverburn onwards wait for First buses anyway and if you go into Paisley you need a McGill's bus anyway.
 

PaulMc7

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I don't know how sensible it would be to compete. You kind of get the feeling both would lose out in the long run as they both use extra vehicles, split custom and eat into profits on the routes. It's not without the bounds of possibility McGill's fight back. It's almost returned to SBG structure- McGill's in Renfrewshire, Glasgow punters use First (in the main).

I think the one that makes the most sense would be Barrhead but not even sure First would want that route- most punters from Silverburn onwards wait for First buses anyway and if you go into Paisley you need a McGill's bus anyway.

Don't think Mcgills are as strong as before especially given their cuts around Paisley and Erskine. Could even link a bus into Paisley through Barrhead and Silverburn and market it as a shopping service. Problem is that promotion isn't something First are consistently great at
 

Gingerbus1991

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Yeah the 2 badly needs deckers tbh. Would love to see new deckers on it within the next year or so. Yeah main services could do with later buses. There's barely any after midnight even from the city centre
LOL make it a 10 minute service with 400XLB on it
 

Get Out There

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I can't see why all day operation of X78 wouldn't work, calling at Silverburn off-peak to provide G77 Concession Holders with a shopper's bus and extending to Glasgow Uni for students.
 

PaulMc7

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I can't see why all day operation of X78 wouldn't work, calling at Silverburn off-peak to provide G77 Concession Holders with a shopper's bus and extending to Glasgow Uni for students.

Yeah that's true. Could work but it would definitely depend on passenger numbers. The 4 would suggest it's not great in Newton Mearns for them
 

Get Out There

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Yeah if you wanted to make money, probably hourly. I think the X9/10 are proof of how this model might not work. Although the original Pollok Centre didn't draw crowds from G77... for some reason. :lol:
 

KGGXXXY

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The amount of new houses along the M77 especially at the Mearns could be a good shout for a new express bus service especially as the top end of the Mearns is not so close to a Train station.
Another option if they want to go for Mcgills territory, is an express service terminating @ Newton Mearns via Barrhead, Silverburn, M77/M8 to the City Centre.
 

Get Out There

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That would be good, but the 3 tonne limit on Aurs Road would scupper the Barrhead option. Stagecoach could do something on this corridor with an express going to or via Mearns. They already have the 4 in that area for those who want a more leisurely pace.
 

PaulMc7

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That would be good, but the 3 tonne limit on Aurs Road would scupper the Barrhead option. Stagecoach could do something on this corridor with an express going to or via Mearns. They already have the 4 in that area for those who want a more leisurely pace.

Could split it into 2 and have one terminate in Newton Mearns and one in Barrhead through the hurlet the way the Mcgills 3 goes
 

ClydeCoaster

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I do think the Mearns is crying out for an express bus. I have good friends there and the one frequent complaint is the lack of a fast alternative into the city on weekends (and evenings) if you were wanting to go for dinner or a few drinks, as the 38 and 4 take just under and hour and 45 minutes respectively (they tend to use the 4 as it’s a “far nicer bus”) and they don’t live near the train station.
 

PaulMc7

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I do think the Mearns is crying out for an express bus. I have good friends there and the one frequent complaint is the lack of a fast alternative into the city on weekends (and evenings) if you were wanting to go for dinner or a few drinks, as the 38 and 4 take just under and hour and 45 minutes respectively (they tend to use the 4 as it’s a “far nicer bus”) and they don’t live near the train station.

I'd have Mearns and East Kilbride down for express buses tbh. East Kilbride is massive so even having an express bus from the town centre would benefit. The 18 and 31 are the quickest into the city centre and still take 55 mins out with peak time
 

route101

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I do think the Mearns is crying out for an express bus. I have good friends there and the one frequent complaint is the lack of a fast alternative into the city on weekends (and evenings) if you were wanting to go for dinner or a few drinks, as the 38 and 4 take just under and hour and 45 minutes respectively (they tend to use the 4 as it’s a “far nicer bus”) and they don’t live near the train station.

The stagecoach 4 or first 4 ? 38 uses new buses . 38 is quicker and feels due to it being one straight road. I think with Newton Mearns most people are at work during the day and have cars .
 

route101

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I'd have Mearns and East Kilbride down for express buses tbh. East Kilbride is massive so even having an express bus from the town centre would benefit. The 18 and 31 are the quickest into the city centre and still take 55 mins out with peak time

I use the 31 and its the quickest way into the centre . When its quiet at night ive been n a 31 that has taken 30 mins from Town to my stop . But if you stay up Greenhills or Whitehills then its a long journey to town .
 

Get Out There

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For purely sadistic reasons, I always wished City Sprinter had extended to the council scheme in Newton Mearns :lol:
Sadly they didn't have the O disks.
Remember the Stagecoach Blochairn 4A from Buchanan to Mearns circular in 2005? What a laugh that was.
 

route101

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For purely sadistic reasons, I always wished City Sprinter had extended to the council scheme in Newton Mearns :lol:
Sadly they didn't have the O disks.
Remember the Stagecoach Blochairn 4A from Buchanan to Mearns circular in 2005? What a laugh that was.

Yeah remember that 4a , was 2007 i think . Boosted the freq at least
 
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