Ways to reduce the costs of commuting by rail.

[m1037433]

mods note - split from this thread

I believe they have to work on the rail fares and make it affordable for the commuters. I'm attaching a return ticket for London - Coventry which costs 64£ next week. The return ticket for Europe in flight ✈️ would be much cheaper.

Having a reasonable fare may reduce the issues

 

[najaB]

Having a reasonable fare may reduce the issues

The issue there is simple. It costs a certain amount to run the railway and that money has to come from somewhere. If it isn't from fares then it will be from taxation.

So yes, fares could go down, but it will mean your taxes go up.

 

[Horizon22]

The issue there is simple. It costs a certain amount to run the railway and that money has to come from somewhere. If it isn't from fares then it will be from taxation.

So yes, fares could go down, but it will mean your taxes go up.

Not really the place for such a discussion but its obviously not that simple.

If a reduction in fares, means more people buy tickets, then it might be revenue positive. Also you can try to reduce costs as long as they don't lead to longer-term issues/costs (for instance like reducing revenue by adding to unreliability).

If 200 people buy £30 tickets, but then tickets are worth £25, you need 41 extra people to buy tickets to be net positive.

 

[jacksonbang]

I believe they have to work on the rail fares and make it affordable for the commuters. I'm attaching a return ticket for London - Coventry which costs 64£ next week. The return ticket for Europe in flight ✈️ would be much cheaper.

Having a reasonable fare may reduce the issues

How would you be getting to the airport for this cheap flight?

 

[signed]

How would you be getting to the airport for this cheap flight?

Coach is usually under or near £10 for most London airports when booked in advance, so for a £30-40 return flight (as you can get with Ryanair), it would agree with OP about the fact flying is becoming cheaper

 

[The Planner]

Still need significant yield management, as if you make it too cheap then you get overwhelmed.

 

[jacksonbang]

Coach is usually under or near £10 for most London airports when booked in advance, so for a £30-40 return flight (as you can get with Ryanair), it would agree with OP about the fact flying is becoming cheaper

"booked in advance" being the key point. It seems a little unfair to compare walk up train fares to booked in advance flights and coaches.

 

[spyinthesky]

Comparisons with air travel are meaningless as the commute is Coventry to London not Vilnius or Krakow.
As coach travel has been mentioned this could be cheaper but not likely suitable for working hours.
Using Advanced/split or other operators may help.
Personally I would just live closer to where I work.

 

[The exile]

mods note - split from this thread

I believe they have to work on the rail fares and make it affordable for the commuters. I'm attaching a return ticket for London - Coventry which costs 64£ next week. The return ticket for Europe in flight ✈️ would be much cheaper.

Having a reasonable fare may reduce the issues

Just out of interest, how can you travel from Marylebone to Coventry on Avanti West Coast only? Incidentally - how much would it cost to fly from London to Coventry?

 

[Sun Chariot]

Comparisons with air travel are meaningless as the commute is Coventry to London not Vilnius or Krakow.
As coach travel has been mentioned this could be cheaper but not likely suitable for working hours.
Using Advanced/split or other operators may help.
Personally I would just live closer to where I work.

The last point, the sad reality is that many of us do not have that luxury. Many have family obligations e.g. children settled at a school / caring for elderly parent(s); and the difference in prices for equivalent property, can be far higher than the cost of commuting.

My wife has once-per-week 180 mile round trip to her office; and one of her colleagues has to do a 380 mile round trip. There are no equivalent senior-level job opportunities in the UK where we live.

 

[Horizon22]

Still need significant yield management, as if you make it too cheap then you get overwhelmed.

Yes this is also important. Many Saturday services are packed at certain times of the day. It’s all quite complex to get the right balance but that’s why there are people employed to do it.

 

[mrcheek]

Commuters are generally among the better paid people in this country.
(Yes, I know its a circular argument)
But why should those who travel by bus, or walk to work, subsidise those who can afford to pay to travel by rail?

 

[najaB]

Commuters are generally among the better paid people in this country.

Depends on your definition of 'commuter' - lots of people who work in service industry jobs in London can't afford to live in London, at least not inner London.

 

[spyinthesky]

The last point, the sad reality is that many of us do not have that luxury

Hence why I said personally.
Most people do have a choice to make a balance between work and life.
I have given up so many luxuries I don’t need through such choices.

 

[JonathanH]

Depends on your definition of 'commuter' - lots of people who work in service industry jobs in London can't afford to live in London, at least not inner London.

The question arises as to whether it is better to pay people to afford to live, or reduce fares to allow them to commute.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Just out of interest, how can you travel from Marylebone to Coventry on Avanti West Coast only?

Walk the mile-and-a-half from Marylebone to Euston?

 

[Elecman]

Just out of interest, how can you travel from Marylebone to Coventry on Avanti West Coast only? Incidentally - how much would it cost to fly from London to Coventry?

Oyster on the Tube?

 

[dastocks]

It does amaze me that people don't do the maths when they look for and/or accept the offer for a job.
A couple of examples:
1. I had to spend a lot of time explaining to a recruitment agent that a local job paying £7.5K less than a London job was actually a better deal for me because I wouldn't be paying around £5K for a season ticket and spending an additional 3 hours/day on trains. A £5K season ticket actually costs more like £10K in gross salary for a higher rate taxpayer.
2. I turned down a job with a consultancy because they would only allow me to expense travel from an office base 70 miles away. The job I was in at the time payed all my expenses once I stepped out of my front door, so there was an immediate penalty of £6-7K (assuming a weekly commute and staying in hotals) of gross salary pissed down the drain on commuting costs.

In the post-pandemic era most of my work is done from home, and I will only tolerate a certain amount of travel to an office. My employer thinks the same way (keen to reduce their carbon footprint) and most of their clients who have to pay for the travel and accommodation likewise.

 

[stuu]

mods note - split from this thread

I believe they have to work on the rail fares and make it affordable for the commuters. I'm attaching a return ticket for London - Coventry which costs 64£ next week. The return ticket for Europe in flight ✈️ would be much cheaper.

Having a reasonable fare may reduce the issues

Sure, you can get a flight at some random time of the day to some city or other, for that price but a lot of the people on that flight will be paying more - Ryanair's average single fare last year was £50, so the average return ticket is over £100. That's more than this train ticket

 

[Sun Chariot]

Hence why I said personally.
Most people do have a choice to make a balance between work and life.
I have given up so many luxuries I don’t need through such choices.

Absolutely. I lived (rented with friends) in Central London for 12 years; then I opted for a slower pace of life - so relocation to south coast, a local(ish) job, mortgage, marriage & family.

 

[Dai Corner]

A weekly season Coventry-London Terminals route High Wycombe is £305.40, so cheaper if you're commuting 5 days a week and valid on any train for 7 days.

In other words, traditional 5 days a week commuters pay less than Advance fares without having the associated restrictions.

 

[Horizon22]

Commuters are generally among the better paid people in this country.
(Yes, I know its a circular argument)
But why should those who travel by bus, or walk to work, subsidise those who can afford to pay to travel by rail?

Surely at the moment though bus travellers are being subsidised by the £2 fare?

Also it's more people who travel by car who are subsidising all public transport modes (or at least should be).

 

[SynthD]

Are there major commuter services that could take more people, all week? The idea of yield management first has to find room to serve more customers.

 

[yorkie]

Commuters are generally among the better paid people in this country.

How do you define a "commuter" and how much better are they paid than non-commuters? How often does someone need to travel to be deemed to be a "commuter"?

But why should those who travel by bus, or walk to work, subsidise those who can afford to pay to travel by rail?

Do you apply that logic to everything that is subsidised, or just selected things? Are you suggesting buses are not subsidised?