• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

WCML closures Spring 2020

Status
Not open for further replies.

AndrewE

Established Member
Joined
9 Nov 2015
Messages
5,075
https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2020/0...-be-replaced-on-the-west-coast-main-line.html says
Network Rail has announced that it will be completing maintenance and renewal work on the West Coast Mainline over 10 weekends between April and June in 2020. Engineers will refurbish or renew more than 17 kilometres of the track at 20 locations along the line, between Carstairs and the Scottish border. A bridge near Beattock will also be replaced.
Due to the amount of engineering work taking place, this will mean the short term closure of the railway.
Buses will replace trains between Carlisle and both Glasgow and Edinburgh on weekends between Saturday, April 4, and Sunday, June 7.
On most weekends, the closures will affect trains from mid-morning on Saturdays until the start of service on the following Monday.
Over Easter and some weekends in May the closures will extend for longer, with buses replacing trains on Monday, April 13 and Mondays May 4 and 25.
It's a blow to me...
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
11,048
Location
Macclesfield
Ah crap, that knackers up getting home from my stag do in Edinburgh then. Guess I'll be coming back via the East Coast and York or Sheffield.

Thanks for the heads up. Just as well we're travelling up on a Friday!
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,542
Location
Redcar
I wonder if there has been a change of plan? I was under the impression that there was some plan to run at least some sort of service between Carlisle and Glasgow using the route via Dumfries. Or perhaps they're just not able to confirm those arrangements yet?
 

CN12

Member
Joined
14 Apr 2019
Messages
9
Euxton junction south of Preston is due to be renewed at Easter. Parts of prefabricated point can be seen laying in available spaces.
 

Scotrail314209

Established Member
Joined
1 Feb 2017
Messages
2,346
Location
Edinburgh
I think these works will spark chaos for families, as in Scotland people will start to be travelling away. Maybe they could operate a limited Carlisle service using some 10 car Super Voyagers, and connecting at Carlisle? A bit like Lamington
 

Bungle965

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
2 Jul 2014
Messages
2,835
Location
Blackley and Broughton/ Walsall South
I wonder if there has been a change of plan? I was under the impression that there was some plan to run at least some sort of service between Carlisle and Glasgow using the route via Dumfries. Or perhaps they're just not able to confirm those arrangements yet?

I think these works will spark chaos for families, as in Scotland people will start to be travelling away. Maybe they could operate a limited Carlisle service using some 10 car Super Voyagers, and connecting at Carlisle? A bit like Lamington
This would seem to suggest that this may be the case.
Sam
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,555
Location
Mold, Clwyd
Euxton junction south of Preston is due to be renewed at Easter. Parts of prefabricated point can be seen laying in available spaces.

Despite Euxton Jn having being rebuilt and doubled within the last 10 years, as part of WCRM.

The WCML has got a policy of shutting up shop over extended bank holidays (ie closed for most of the 3 days), so that work can proceed at multiple locations.
Usually this includes locations south of Rugby and knackers the whole service for the weekend.
I'd be interested to know if the repeated spring closures in Scotland are being used as a reason to close the whole route on some of these dates.
 

The_Train

Established Member
Joined
2 Jun 2018
Messages
4,314
Despite Euxton Jn having being rebuilt and doubled within the last 10 years, as part of WCRM.

The WCML has got a policy of shutting up shop over extended bank holidays (ie closed for most of the 3 days), so that work can proceed at multiple locations.
Usually this includes locations south of Rugby and knackers the whole service for the weekend.
I'd be interested to know if the repeated spring closures in Scotland are being used as a reason to close the whole route on some of these dates.

But this is what we want isn't it? We don't want new high speed railways being built, we just want to keep fixing the Victorian infrastructure we currently have and to do that lines have to be closed.

At the end of the day, anyone (and that's regular passengers or enthusiasts) travelling by train over a bank holiday would be extremely naive not to expect engineering works. Its hardly a new thing for the new decade :lol:
 

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
11,048
Location
Macclesfield
Euxton junction south of Preston is due to be renewed at Easter. Parts of prefabricated point can be seen laying in available spaces.
On a related note is there any other work in that sort of area that's expected to be taking place in late May? As I noticed a little while ago that neither The Trainline nor Realtime Trains show any Northern services between Manchester and Preston on Friday 22nd May, just the hourly Transpennine one. Hoping that it's just because it's too early for finalised services to be loaded into whatever system these use - Couldn't find any sources that list upcoming engineering work that far in advance.
 

jawr256

Member
Joined
15 Apr 2017
Messages
131
On a related note is there any other work in that sort of area that's expected to be taking place in late May? As I noticed a little while ago that neither The Trainline nor Realtime Trains show any Northern services between Manchester and Preston on Friday 22nd May, just the hourly Transpennine one. Hoping that it's just because it's too early for finalised services to be loaded into whatever system these use - Couldn't find any sources that list upcoming engineering work that far in advance.
As you suggest, I doubt you'll find any Northern services in the schedule for any route after 17 May at the moment - they appear not to be finalised and uploaded yet for after the timetable change.
 

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
11,048
Location
Macclesfield
As you suggest, I doubt you'll find any Northern services in the schedule for any route after 17 May at the moment - they appear not to be finalised and uploaded yet for after the timetable change.
That's reassuring, wondered if that was the case.
 

Mag_seven

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
1 Sep 2014
Messages
9,994
Location
here to eternity
Maybe they could operate a limited Carlisle service using some 10 car Super Voyagers, and connecting at Carlisle? A bit like Lamington

I hope they do and don't give the usual reasons of "no paths" or "no driver route knowledge" as excuses not to run it.
 

mcmad

Member
Joined
11 Mar 2015
Messages
977
I'd not be holding my breath, will no doubt be busses down the M74 as usual.
 

cosmo

Member
Joined
10 Dec 2018
Messages
135
Location
North East England
How possible would it be to run a diversion down the Tyne Valley to Newcastle and go that way? LNER often do the inverse when the ECML is shut, though I'm not sure if Avanti drivers sign the Tyne Valley. DRS would need to be on hand to provide loco support for the Pendos too, since the 67 at Newcastle can't drag it without an adapter. Voyagers could go under their own power obviously, maybe with tilt disabled. But saying all this came together, would there be anything else that might stop it?
 

Mag_seven

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
1 Sep 2014
Messages
9,994
Location
here to eternity
How possible would it be to run a diversion down the Tyne Valley to Newcastle and go that way? LNER often do the inverse when the ECML is shut, though I'm not sure if Avanti drivers sign the Tyne Valley. DRS would need to be on hand to provide loco support for the Pendos too, since the 67 at Newcastle can't drag it without an adapter. Voyagers could go under their own power obviously, maybe with tilt disabled. But saying all this came together, would there be anything else that might stop it?

I'm not sure why they would want to do that - the extended journey time would be massive compared to going via Kilmarnock/Dumfries.
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,555
Location
Mold, Clwyd
How possible would it be to run a diversion down the Tyne Valley to Newcastle and go that way? LNER often do the inverse when the ECML is shut, though I'm not sure if Avanti drivers sign the Tyne Valley. DRS would need to be on hand to provide loco support for the Pendos too, since the 67 at Newcastle can't drag it without an adapter. Voyagers could go under their own power obviously, maybe with tilt disabled. But saying all this came together, would there be anything else that might stop it?

Trouble is that LNER don't miss any of their major traffic centres when they divert via Carlisle.
But Avanti would miss Preston and other big NW stations, and they wouldn't want to regain the WCML via Leeds or Derby (too much time).
Easier to send London/Birmingham passengers via the ECML.
They don't seem to have many options at Carlisle, as it's not a major base for them now. The Voyagers won't be around either (their replacements will be kept further south).
TPE will have some new diversion options now they have a regular Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds-Edinburgh service.
 

voyagerdude220

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2005
Messages
3,264
It looks like the 18:30 London Euston to Glasgow Central is being diverted via Kilmarnock on Saturday 4th April, formed of one or probably more likely two Super Voyagers, arriving into Glasgow just after midnight.
 

Mag_seven

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
1 Sep 2014
Messages
9,994
Location
here to eternity
Trouble is that LNER don't miss any of their major traffic centres when they divert via Carlisle.
But Avanti would miss Preston and other big NW stations, and they wouldn't want to regain the WCML via Leeds or Derby (too much time).

My reading of @cosmo's proposal was to divert Glasgow- Euston services via Edinburgh then Berwick - Newcastle - Hexham - Carlisle thence via usual route via Preston. Perhaps they could confirm?
 

cosmo

Member
Joined
10 Dec 2018
Messages
135
Location
North East England
I'm not sure why they would want to do that - the extended journey time would be massive compared to going via Kilmarnock/Dumfries.

If I'm right in thinking, a run from Carlisle to Glasgow Central is something like 2.5 hours with stops? If we said just over 2 hours non-stop, assuming no holdups behind stopping services:

- it's about an hour or 1h10 for CAR to Newcastle
- 1h15 or so for NCL to Edinburgh
- 1h or so EDB to GLC via Motherwell

That makes 2h25 to get to Edinburgh, 3h30 for Glasgow. It really depends on if they wanted to prioritise their Glasgow or Edinburgh services; I suppose since the ECML is working fine (hopefully) during the closures, there's no need to prioritise EDB services, but it's an option.

My reading of @cosmo's proposal was to divert Glasgow- Euston services via Edinburgh then Berwick - Newcastle - Hexham - Carlisle thence via usual route via Preston. Perhaps they could confirm?

Yes, this is what I meant, divert GLC via BWK and NCL, then CAR and down the WCML as normal from there. Inverse is true for ex-Euston trains.
 

AndrewE

Established Member
Joined
9 Nov 2015
Messages
5,075
I'm not sure why they would want to do that - the extended journey time would be massive compared to going via Kilmarnock/Dumfries.
It would be better for the WCML Edinburgh services though (They run alternate hours & are well-filled, so that's quite a few passengers you would help.)
 

Bungle965

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
2 Jul 2014
Messages
2,835
Location
Blackley and Broughton/ Walsall South
How possible would it be to run a diversion down the Tyne Valley to Newcastle and go that way? LNER often do the inverse when the ECML is shut, though I'm not sure if Avanti drivers sign the Tyne Valley. DRS would need to be on hand to provide loco support for the Pendos too, since the 67 at Newcastle can't drag it without an adapter. Voyagers could go under their own power obviously, maybe with tilt disabled. But saying all this came together, would there be anything else that might stop it?
Not very possible.
Any idea of the 57s running in service with Pendolino's anymore is a non-starter.
Sam
 

cosmo

Member
Joined
10 Dec 2018
Messages
135
Location
North East England
Not very possible.
Any idea of the 57s running in service with Pendolino's anymore is a non-starter.
Sam

I presume this is more to do with the 57s not being run/operated by Avanti? I thought DRS had the 57/3s still, but I imagine they'd need to make an arrangement for drags along the TVL. Voyagers of course would be able to do it; maybe a scenario where Pendo services terminate at Carlisle but Super Voyagers continue through via Newcastle?
 

Put Kettle On

Member
Joined
2 Apr 2019
Messages
51
Location
Here & there , but mainly there .
When East Coast services run via West Coast, this is run as a reduced service .
With West Coast blockades, as far as I’m aware, these have never been diverted & cant see it really being feasible, due to capacity, route knowledge, traction issues as well as time factor .

These blockades on Scottish section of WCML have been taking place for many years at the same time of year, covering April & May period .
This is due to the ongoing programme of renewal / enhancement work moving around the network in a cyclic programme .
The East Coast gets its share of weekend closures, then the work moves elsewhere .
The Stirling to Dundee was closed over several weekends recently & at present it is Ayrshire’s turn for closures to allow work to be done there .
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,909

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,909
Euxton junction south of Preston is due to be renewed at Easter. Parts of prefabricated point can be seen laying in available spaces.

Not sure that this junction can be diverted around unless each pair of lines is sufficiently far apart that two track working (out of four) can be used.
 

cosmo

Member
Joined
10 Dec 2018
Messages
135
Location
North East England
Looks like the plan according to RTT is Pendos from Euston as far as Carlisle, calling all/most Avanti stops (including stops at both Penrith North Lakes and Oxenholme Lake District, usually they alternate stops) and Voyagers from Carlisle to Glasgow via Dumfries, with a stop at Barrhead or Kilmarnock.
 
Last edited:

AndrewE

Established Member
Joined
9 Nov 2015
Messages
5,075
Looks like the plan according to RTT is Pendos from Euston as far as Carlisle, calling all/most Avanti stops (including stops at both Penrith North Lakes and Oxenholme Lake District, usually they alternate stops) and Voyagers from Carlisle to Glasgow via Dumfries, with a stop at Barrhead or Kilmarnock.
That's good, but what about the WCML passengers for Edinburgh?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top