• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

WCML current Peak and Off Peak capacity

Status
Not open for further replies.

Edgeley

Member
Joined
27 Jul 2017
Messages
95
Location
North West
The busiest stretch by far is between Milton Keynes Central and Euston (well, Tring-Wembley, as the Tring stoppers are added at Tring and the Southern turns off at Wembley), and it's relieving this stretch (to allow more local services and freight) that is the key business case for HS2.

My emphasis - I'm sure that's right but it is not what is usually said publicly by the HS2 marketing fraternity: instead, generally some guff about regenerating the north.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

ChiefPlanner

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2011
Messages
7,768
Location
Herts
Could that be solved by platforms on the Independent Lines - I seem to recall using a diveunder on a Railtour in this area having come from Wilmslow direction towards Crewe?

Looked at several times over the years - to no avail - part of the issue , apart from the signalling , the linespeed reduced over the years when freight was "prime user" ....
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,070
My emphasis - I'm sure that's right but it is not what is usually said publicly by the HS2 marketing fraternity: instead, generally some guff about regenerating the north.

It’s not quite right, as whilst the Tring stoppers do take up capacity, the capacity north of Tring they leave behind is filled up with services crossing from the fast lines at Ledburn or MK. When you take everything into account, including stopping patterns, the mix of markets served and rolling stock deployed, the WCML is essentially full south of Rugby.

Strictly speaking then, the key to the business case of the west side of HS2 is to relive the WCML south of Rugby, and between Coventry and Birmingham, and between Crewe and Manchester, and between Rugeley and Stafford... all to enable more train services in the Midlands and North, as well as more train services between the North, Midlands and London (including freight), and that is to help rebalance the economy.
 

ChiefPlanner

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2011
Messages
7,768
Location
Herts
It’s not quite right, as whilst the Tring stoppers do take up capacity, the capacity north of Tring they leave behind is filled up with services crossing from the fast lines at Ledburn or MK. When you take everything into account, including stopping patterns, the mix of markets served and rolling stock deployed, the WCML is essentially full south of Rugby.

Strictly speaking then, the key to the business case of the west side of HS2 is to relive the WCML south of Rugby, and between Coventry and Birmingham, and between Crewe and Manchester, and between Rugeley and Stafford... all to enable more train services in the Midlands and North, as well as more train services between the North, Midlands and London (including freight), and that is to help rebalance the economy.

Almost sounds like a speech from "The Life of Brian" ....

Mentioned before that the Tring locals provide useful cross Harrow and Watford connections to stations north of the latter, as well as providing welcome seating capacity in the peaks for these stations. A timetable planned to meet most "known" flows .....
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,540
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Almost sounds like a speech from "The Life of Brian" ....

Mentioned before that the Tring locals provide useful cross Harrow and Watford connections to stations north of the latter, as well as providing welcome seating capacity in the peaks for these stations. A timetable planned to meet most "known" flows .....

But what have the Tring stoppers done for us?! :D

(Yes, the south WCML timetable is an absolute masterpiece of capacity provision)
 

cactustwirly

Established Member
Joined
10 Apr 2013
Messages
7,447
Location
UK
The busiest section of the Fast Lines is between Euston and Ledburn Junction, with something like 15 trains in peak direction in peak periods. The standard pattern of evening peak departures is something like (off memrory)

XX57 Lancaster (Pendolino, first stop Tamworth)
XX00 Manchester (Pendolino, first stop Stoke)
XX03 Birmingham (Pendolino, first stop Rugby)
XX07 Liverpool (Pendolino, first stop Stafford)
XX10 North Wales (Voyager, first stop Milton Keynes)
XX13 LNWR (first stop Milton Keynes
XX16 LNWR (first stop Leighton Buzzard)
XX20 Manchester (Pendolino, first stop Milton Keynes)
XX23 Birmingham (Pendolino, first stop Watford then Coventry)
XX30 Glasgow (Pendolino, first stop Warrington)
XX33 Blackpool or Liverpool (Voyager/Pendolino, first stop Rugby)
XX40 Manchester (Pendolino, first stop Crewe)
XX43 Scotland via Birmingham (Pendolino or Voyager, first stop Milton Keynes)
XX46 LNWR (first stop Milton Keynes then Rugby)
XX49 LNWR (first stop Leighton Buzzard)

The signalling in theory permits departures every 3 minutes, but this is not achievable in practice since:

No xx27 departure is possible as the xx20 needs to stop on the Fast Line at Watford, and by the time it departs again the xx30 has caught up.

Similaly, no xx54 is possibe since the xx46 calls at Milton Keynes and is caught up by the xx57 as a result.

Therefore the only "spare" path might be considered to he the xx36...which is prudent to keep as a performance reserve after all of the above (and if it did run it would have linited options with what could be done with it).

Note in particular that the sequence of trains is careful and well-optimised (random it is certainly not). Notice for example:
-The sequence of trains running non-stop for a long distance at 57,00,03 and 07
-Then followed by an xx10 and 13 calling Milton Keynes (after the fast trains have passed), then a 16 which leaves the Slow Lines at Ledburn (giving 'space' for the 10/13 to call without blocking a train straight behind it).

Another example is the 23 calling at Watford, which gives space for the 20 to call at Milton Keynes.

A work of art to squeeze as many trains as possible out of this railway.

The GWML is very similar, there are 19 main line departures from Paddington from 1700-1800 on a typical weekday.
 

causton

Established Member
Joined
4 Aug 2010
Messages
5,504
Location
Somewhere between WY372 and MV7
I specifically said "off peak" - I would not expect anyone to get a £20 fare in the business hours. The real life example I quoted was for someone who works a solid day , in an office , Monday to Friday. If he needed to travel in these hours then he would bite the bullet and drive south or north.

I think you are both making valid, but different, points. It is true that off-peak there are many good deals to be had. Yet, at peak time, nobody is on the trains as they are so expensive. This means quite a few peak-time trains are busier than those off-peak!
 

cactustwirly

Established Member
Joined
10 Apr 2013
Messages
7,447
Location
UK
GWML has shorter headways up to Heathrow though.

Ignoring HEx there's still 13 departures as far as Reading, 1 as far as Maidenhead East jct and 1 as far as Dolphin jct (Slough). Not far off the WCML!

The relief lines have 10tph in the peaks, with 2 to Hayes, 2 to Heathrow, 4 all stations to Reading, and finally 2 semi fast to Reading (GWR)
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
GWML has shorter headways up to Heathrow though.

And fewer peak calls made on the Main line platforms along the way (until Reading that is).

Just seems to be the 1736 Paignton (at Maidenhead) and 1807 Frome (at Twyford) in the evening.

Both possible due to the 1740* and 1810 Heathrow Express services leaving a path behind after Airport Jn

*Though a 1738 Didcot fast is also squeezed in an pathed behind through Maidenhead.
 

Wilts Wanderer

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2016
Messages
2,463
GWML has shorter headways up to Heathrow though.

It has shorter planning headways certainly. How do the technical headways compare between WCML and GWML? The ML planning headway was reduced from 2.5 to 2 mins (Padd-Airport Jn) and from 3 to 2 mins (Airport Jn-Reading) purely to enable the high frequency timetable to be accommodated. No actual enhancements were made to the signalling. Furthermore the GWML is ‘hampered’ by ATP which generally makes driving technique more defensive. It actually surprises me the GWR timetable works as well as it does, given how little margin for error there is.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,070
It has shorter planning headways certainly. How do the technical headways compare between WCML and GWML? The ML planning headway was reduced from 2.5 to 2 mins (Padd-Airport Jn) and from 3 to 2 mins (Airport Jn-Reading) purely to enable the high frequency timetable to be accommodated. No actual enhancements were made to the signalling. Furthermore the GWML is ‘hampered’ by ATP which generally makes driving technique more defensive. It actually surprises me the GWR timetable works as well as it does, given how little margin for error there is.

Presumably the Airport Jn - Reading headway was previously based on the technical headway at Reading itself, which has unquestionably been improved through the remodelling.

Most 4 aspect multi aspect routes have a technical headway of around 2 minutes or less for the plain track sections. Most of the WCML south of Rugby has a technical headway of 90seconds or less. The planning headway is, however, usually limited by what all trains have to do to get on/off the plain track section.
 

cactustwirly

Established Member
Joined
10 Apr 2013
Messages
7,447
Location
UK
And fewer peak calls made on the Main line platforms along the way (until Reading that is).

Just seems to be the 1736 Paignton (at Maidenhead) and 1807 Frome (at Twyford) in the evening.

Both possible due to the 1740* and 1810 Heathrow Express services leaving a path behind after Airport Jn

*Though a 1738 Didcot fast is also squeezed in an pathed behind through Maidenhead.

That's not quite correct, the 1707 & 1907 to Bedwyn both stop at Twyford on the mains as well.
The 1650 to Didcot also stops Maidenhead on the mains
 

city dweller

Member
Joined
17 Apr 2019
Messages
102
Not exactly the subject of the thread but I havn't seen else where. This was in the updated business case for HS2 and show possible future service patterns post HS2 phase 1.

EVoofpfUYAAcECT


EVoofpKXYAECcM6
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top