WCML disruption 17/06/2022

[306024]

It is wonderful to note that people still come on this forum with suggestions which include getting buses/coaches to transport probably thousands of people in response to something as catastrophic as this incident, with no warning that it was about to happen or the extent of the damage and how long the great problem was likely tocontinue for. Where do people think such buses (with drivers) are hiding, just waiting to leap forth to where they are needed and drive for hours.
Many bus companies all over the country are cancelling their regular services due to driver shortage so where does one get hold of 'instant' drivers?

Indeed. It is amusing how the armchair controllers, all blessed with 20/20 hindsight, not in possession of all the facts, still like to come up with totally impractical suggestions, with the implication that the rail staff dealing with the event are all clueless.

In any major disruption there will be things handled well (which will go unnoticed), problems that can’t be solved easily, and things that could have been done better. What is difficult to appreciate is that disruption is a constantly changing situation acted out in real time. Correct decisions made based on known facts at the time can become the wrong decision 30 minutes later, by which time the course is set.

 

[Peter0124]

I think 1S96 (Willesden to Shieldmuir) was the one that failed at Lockerbie, it only arrived into Mossend (rather than Shieldmuir) about an hour ago. Something like 11 hours late.

https://twitter.com/stephen37292ML/status/1538030144102666240?t=zYAboC4MoIMCkOUKw4a6kQ&s=19

 

[voyagerdude220]

9P85 and 1S06 have currently arrived into Preston, 300L and 135L respectively

Realtime Trains | 9P85 1543 London Euston to Preston | 17/06/2022

Real-time train running information for 9P85 1543 departure from London Euston to Preston on 17/06/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 1S06 1930 London Euston to Glasgow Central | 17/06/2022

Real-time train running information for 1S06 1930 departure from London Euston to Glasgow Central on 17/06/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

There was also a route setting problem at Preston late last night which why 9P85 and 1S06 took so long between Wigan and Preston.

 

[High Dyke]

I think 1S96 (Willesden to Shieldmuir) was the one that failed at Lockerbie, it only arrived into Mossend (rather than Shieldmuir) about an hour ago. Something like 11 hours late.

https://twitter.com/stephen37292ML/status/1538030144102666240?t=zYAboC4MoIMCkOUKw4a6kQ&s=19

In a manner of sorts. Held at Lockerbie due to the failure of 4S47, but then 1S96 suffered brake problems itself.

 

[CAF397]

It is wonderful to note that people still come on this forum with suggestions which include getting buses/coaches to transport probably thousands of people in response to something as catastrophic as this incident, with no warning that it was about to happen or the extent of the damage and how long the great problem was likely tocontinue for. Where do people think such buses (with drivers) are hiding, just waiting to leap forth to where they are needed and drive for hours.
Many bus companies all over the country are cancelling their regular services due to driver shortage so where does one get hold of 'instant' drivers?

By remembering that people don't just want London. Yes, London is the main demand, but by running as far as they could (traincrew hours permitting) - say Nuneaton you could change for Leicester, Birmingham for onward connections on alternative routes. No coaches required.

I do get frustrated when the railway shuts up shop in disruption, instead of running what it can do to ease passenger flows.

There was disruption north Oxenholme once, Virgin abandoned north of Preston instead of running to Oxenholme. Left TPE with 4-car 350s to carry Lancaster and Oxenholme passengers while 9/11 coach Pendolinos sat at Preston.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

By remembering that people don't just want London. Yes, London is the main demand, but by running as far as they could (traincrew hours permitting) - say Nuneaton you could change for Leicester, Birmingham for onward connections on alternative routes. No coaches required.

I do get frustrated when the railway shuts up shop in disruption, instead of running what it can do to ease passenger flows.

There was disruption north Oxenholme once, Virgin abandoned north of Preston instead of running to Oxenholme. Left TPE with 4-car 350s to carry Lancaster and Oxenholme passengers while 9/11 coach Pendolinos sat at Preston.

Given that so many trains (and crew) were trapped at Euston, it may not have been possible to put in a shuttle service.

Take my depot, we had 3 crews trapped (2 south of Keynes, 1 at Keynes) all on late turns. Those on early turns we're already on their last workings and those who were spare could have ran 2 shuttles to Rugby if platform space allowed, but that would not have made a difference for those waiting at stations due to travel time, or those needing trains later on which would have been after their day way up.

The 3 trapped crews could have been taxi'd up and units left IF they were to abandon their trapped units, but as they were very busy trains that would have made zero sense. Sometimes it's just not possible to do what would seem the easiest answer. Avanti had their own reasons for limiting train crews doing such movements

 

[TPO]

Managing an event like this has to be a consideration in how much traffic they let run on the network on a strike day.

What makes you think it wouldn't be? I think you'll find that the front-end Operational Management/Controls of NR and the Train Operators are actually quite sophisticated, and far better at their jobs than most forumites or the general public would give credit for...........

TPO

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

What makes you think it wouldn't be?

Nothing

I think you'll find that the front-end Operational Management/Controls of NR and the Train Operators are actually quite sophisticated, and far better at their jobs than most forumites or the general public would give credit for...........

TPH

Absolutely.

Just making the point that commentators who believe more trains should be run may not consider that these sort of scenarios have to be factored in.

 

[6Gman]

Buses are a no go they have a huge staffing issue at the moment with operators running Saturday and Sunday timetable on week days and still have 1000s of runs failing to run or running short

And on a Friday afternoon during school and college terms . . .

 

[Agent_Squash]

There was disruption north Oxenholme once, Virgin abandoned north of Preston instead of running to Oxenholme. Left TPE with 4-car 350s to carry Lancaster and Oxenholme passengers while 9/11 coach Pendolinos sat at Preston.

Virgin/Avanti definitely do seem to forget there is a network north of Preston at times. At least run up to Oxenholme or Lancaster - the latter is barely 15 minutes away!

Obviously since the improved Northern service it isn’t *as* important - but a 3 (or even soon to be 6) coach 195 can’t absorb multiple Pendolinos - as well as the barely existant TPE services…

 

[JohnB27]

More disruption today - stuck on an LNR service at Nuneaton and been told all lines blocked between here and Stafford due to animals on the line near Rugely. Looks like all trains are being held in platforms at Stafford, Nuneaton or Rugby. No idea when we'll be moving.

 

[Peter0124]

Virgin/Avanti definitely do seem to forget there is a network north of Preston at times. At least run up to Oxenholme or Lancaster - the latter is barely 15 minutes away!

Obviously since the improved Northern service it isn’t *as* important - but a 3 (or even soon to be 6) coach 195 can’t absorb multiple Pendolinos - as well as the barely existant TPE services…

Could it be something to do with the Avanti depot being at Preston? Doubt it would hurt to run to Lancaster though.

 

[The Prisoner]

Passed the Highlander Fort William sleeper service running over four hours late at Rannoch at 1pm (on 1140 Fort William - Glasgow). It eventually reached its destination around 2pm nearly 5 hours late.

Was at Glasgow Central at 6.40 and noticed the last southbound Avanti service to Birmingham was cancelled. Buses were waiting outside, so there must have been planning to this, whilst the last southbound TPE service a few minutes later was also cancelled.

Fair play to CS for bothering to run to Fort William under the circumstances today, but I feel for the folk expecting a train from Glasgow tonight either bussing long distance or missing out completely.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

More disruption today - stuck on an LNR service at Nuneaton and been told all lines blocked between here and Stafford due to animals on the line near Rugely. Looks like all trains are being held in platforms at Stafford, Nuneaton or Rugby. No idea when we'll be moving.

Yep, 9 of them between Colwich and Rugeley TV. I was held at Stafford for an hour before being ECSd back to Crewe.

Unfortunate given that there's no route via International this weekend due to engineering works. Farmer was on hand in about 45 minutes with the MOM

 

[Class 466]

Had the joy of being shut on a Voyager (1A53 HHD-EUS) completely contained within a platform at Stafford for an hour and 20 on Friday. Watched a number of XCs heading south to Birmingham depart which I and many others could've used - but we were held captive because the driver couldn't get permission to release the doors. At Stafford. Real mismanagement of the situation and within 20 minutes of being stopped the shop was swiftly closed because the person running it was unable to carry on serving people without being rude to them when they asked about getting off the train. After an hour some were getting understandably anxious. Eventually let off at 1840ish after being there since 1716 - Never experienced it in my life and it really had a negative impact on my impression of Avanti's ability to deal with any sort of disruption. I've travelled and been caught up in disruption on multiple TOCs and never had a situation where they point blank refuse to let people off. Surprised there wasn't an egress.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Had the joy of being shut on a Voyager (1A53 HHD-EUS) completely contained within a platform at Stafford for an hour and 20 on Friday. Watched a number of XCs heading south to Birmingham depart which I and many others could've used - but we were held captive because the driver couldn't get permission to release the doors. At Stafford. Real mismanagement of the situation and within 20 minutes of being stopped the shop was swiftly closed because the person running it was unable to carry on serving people without being rude to them when they asked about getting off the train. After an hour some were getting understandably anxious. Eventually let off at 1840ish after being there since 1716 - Never experienced it in my life and it really had a negative impact on my impression of Avanti's ability to deal with any sort of disruption. I've travelled and been caught up in disruption on multiple TOCs and never had a situation where they point blank refuse to let people off. Surprised there wasn't an egress.

I was told the same by a signaller during this disruption too, thankfully only for around 35 minutes. Any longer and I would have released doors until we were ready to leave.

Sometimes there's a genuine reason not to, especially if the signaller thinks you're going to move soon. But, the train crew can take this decision and inform the signaller that they have done so

 

[Bletchleyite]

Had the joy of being shut on a Voyager (1A53 HHD-EUS) completely contained within a platform at Stafford for an hour and 20 on Friday. Watched a number of XCs heading south to Birmingham depart which I and many others could've used - but we were held captive because the driver couldn't get permission to release the doors. At Stafford. Real mismanagement of the situation and within 20 minutes of being stopped the shop was swiftly closed because the person running it was unable to carry on serving people without being rude to them when they asked about getting off the train. After an hour some were getting understandably anxious. Eventually let off at 1840ish after being there since 1716 - Never experienced it in my life and it really had a negative impact on my impression of Avanti's ability to deal with any sort of disruption. I've travelled and been caught up in disruption on multiple TOCs and never had a situation where they point blank refuse to let people off. Surprised there wasn't an egress.

Unacceptable, and in my view the use of the egress would have been totally justified (not within the rules, but morally justified), and I'm amazed nobody did.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Unacceptable, and in my view the use of the egress would have been totally justified (not within the rules, but morally justified), and I'm amazed nobody did.

Indeed, I'm not sure what Avanti's protocol is for disruption like this. I know ours is dependent on whether train has power (air con), percentage load and potential vulnerable passengers.

I wouldn't have begrudged egress being used, but it would certainly be better to have a conversation with the train crew so as not to panic them by a sudden evac!

 

[MalaiseForever]

Why would driver/guard need permission to open doors in a station? Surely it was fairly obvious nothing was going to be moving for a good while? Seems very poor.

Obviously different case if you are out of station, but surely within 10/15 mins when it is obvious nothing is moving they should've let everyone off with the proviso to stay nearby and listen for announcements about onward travel.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Why would driver/guard need permission to open doors in a station? Surely it was fairly obvious nothing was going to be moving for a good while? Seems very poor.

Obviously different case if you are out of station, but surely within 10/15 mins when it is obvious nothing is moving they should've let everyone off with the proviso to stay nearby and listen for announcements about onward travel.

If you are not scheduled to stop there, but are at a signal the driver would need to request to open the doors. That's how it panned out for me in this disruption even though I was stopped at Harrow (which I sign)

 

[MalaiseForever]

If you are not scheduled to stop there, but are at a signal the driver would need to request to open the doors. That's how it panned out for me in this disruption even though I was stopped at Harrow (which I sign)

That's fair enough - I suppose I am more asking why it took so long to get permission to open the doors

 

[SCDR_WMR]

That's fair enough - I suppose I am more asking why it took so long to get permission to open the doors

It will be depend on the TOCs policy, ours is 60 minutes unless no Aircon or vulnerable passengers onboard. TM/Conductor can certainly make their own judgement call if the train is fully occupied on the platform. Clear and concise communication would limit any risks.

Personally, I wouldn't do it at a station I don't know or sign, but if passengers are already getting angry I'd probably have opened the doors

 

[MalaiseForever]

It will be depend on the TOCs policy, ours is 60 minutes unless no Aircon or vulnerable passengers onboard. TM/Conductor can certainly make their own judgement call if the train is fully occupied on the platform. Clear and concise communication would limit any risks.

Personally, I wouldn't do it at a station I don't know or sign, but if passengers are already getting angry I'd probably have opened the doors

Thanks for the details!

 

[leananger]

Would it not be wonderful if we could run the railways like the Japanese!

 

[voyagerdude220]

Why would driver/guard need permission to open doors in a station? Surely it was fairly obvious nothing was going to be moving for a good while? Seems very poor.

I agree.

I wonder why the Driver has to obtain permission to release the doors when the train was fully platformed at Stafford?

Surely all that needs to happen is the Driver and Train Manager liase with each other to double check neither member of staff had a concern about opening the doors, then inform the signaller so they know the train won't be ready to move immediately if they got given a signal.

Train Manager knows to despatch the train. Driver knows to only go once given the go ahead from the Train Manager.

Am I missing something?

 

[55002]

Seems to be another issue in Lichfield Nuneaton section at minute..signals I believe

 

[bramling]

Unacceptable, and in my view the use of the egress would have been totally justified (not within the rules, but morally justified), and I'm amazed nobody did.

I saw a daft one a couple of years ago. Northern Pacer stopped in the platform at Seaburn (T&W Metro) for over an hour due to a broken-down metro ahead. Woman asked if she could be allowed off, guard initially wouldn’t, then control got involved and no one seemed to know whether it was allowed or not, which then kicked things off a little.

These sorts of things do the railway job favours at all. First the passengers are delayed, then the initial delay is compounded. In the old days on a slam-door train it wouldn’t have been an issue, of course.

 

[The Middle]

Round 2.

Loss of signalling between Rugby and Lichfield

 

[87015]

Personally, I wouldn't do it at a station I don't know or sign, but if passengers are already getting angry I'd probably have opened the doors

how would you be at a station “you don’t sign” - you shouldn’t be there if you don’t sign the route surely. Gotta love traincrew rules.

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

Seems to be another issue in Lichfield Nuneaton section at minute..signals I believe

Yes. Mate currently on 2100 Euston Piccadily just passed through Aston a good 60 late !
Looks like the 1915 Piccadilly Euston died at Polesworth!!