WCML disruption Preston to Lancaster 27/11/19

[paul1609]

Crews have never had that route signed, maybe in Virgin days but not for the last 15 years anyway. No locos capable of supplying power anyway.

We know a 73/9 can do 8 coaches, can 2 do 16?

 

[Scotrail84]

We know a 73/9 can do 8 coaches, can 2 do 16?

No they can't power 16.

 

[paul1609]

No they can't power 16.

What about one on each end with the jumpers off in the middle?

 

[Scotrail84]

What about one on each end with the jumpers off in the middle?

Wouldn't be able to haul it as the train would be too heavy, need 2 drivers as well, one in the front loco and one in the rear.

 

[trainmananthon]

I made the trip to Preston this evening to lend a helping hand to all the hard working staff having to deal with this disruption, however when I arrived the station was eerily quiet - hardly a soul about. Just a pendo sat in platforms 3 & 6 and that's it!

4000 people through the station this afternoon shifted by bus according to some of the workers there!

 

[Steddenm]

From a friend who is a TM at VT:

1. TPE 350 failed at Garstang this morning.

2. Another 350 resuced the failed 350 and dragged it to Lancaster.

3. Unknown to everyone the 'Resuce 350' pulled the Wires down (yet got through)

4. They let a 390 out of Preston, only to plowh into the section where the Wires came down. Trapped!

5. They let 'another 390 out of Preston only to get stuck behind the trapped 390! (That got dragged back to Preston with a 57).

6. Everyone 'self evacuated' off the failed 390 as it was stuck there for hours.

 

[gray1404]

Seriously, "self evacuating" out of a 390 is very dangerous to say the least. I'm sure photos will follow taken on mobile phone if this is true.

 

[Grumpy Git]

What a farce. Three cheers for privatisation again, two alternative routes north for the sleepers, but no joined up thinking.

 

[djpontrack]

Possession now planned to be given up at 06:30 tomorrow morning.
1M99 06:28 Lancaster to Manchester Airport is now cancelled.

 

[Bertie the bus]

5. They let 'another 390 out of Preston only to get stuck behind the trapped 390! (That got dragged back to Preston with a 57).

Dragged back 5 hours later.

 

[tsr]

From a friend who is a TM at VT:

1. TPE 350 failed at Garstang this morning.

2. Another 350 resuced the failed 350 and dragged it to Lancaster.

3. Unknown to everyone the 'Resuce 350' pulled the Wires down (yet got through)

4. They let a 390 out of Preston, only to plowh into the section where the Wires came down. Trapped!

5. They let 'another 390 out of Preston only to get stuck behind the trapped 390! (That got dragged back to Preston with a 57).

6. Everyone 'self evacuated' off the failed 390 as it was stuck there for hours.

Only points 1 and 2 are correct.

The OHLE structure appeared to have been dislodged by something (possibly geological issues but unsure) and the wires came down ahead of the next VT service, which got trapped with a mast leaning against it and the wires all over the place. A couple of other trains were also in the immediate area when the power tripped out, and couldn’t be moved until locomotives arrived, despite being clear of the damage. The passengers (many hundreds of them) on the train with the wires on top of it were evacuated to another. No passengers were found trackside.

 

[trainmananthon]

Only points 1 and 2 are correct.

The OHLE structure appeared to have been dislodged by something (possibly geological issues but unsure) and the wires came down ahead of the next VT service, which got trapped with a mast leaning against it and the wires all over the place. A couple of other trains were also in the immediate area when the power tripped out, and couldn’t be moved until locomotives arrived, despite being clear of the damage. The passengers (many hundreds of them) on the train with the wires on top of it were evacuated to another. No passengers were found trackside.

Did that 350 fail in roughly the same place where the OHLE issues were? And do we know why it failed?

Pure speculation on my part, but could it have detected a problem with the OHLE and dropped the pan, and for some reason was unable to be reset? Just seems too ironic to me that one unit failed in what I believe it roughly the same location as the next unit ran into downed overheads.

 

[tsr]

Did that 350 fail in roughly the same place where the OHLE issues were? And do we know why it failed?

Pure speculation on my part, but could it have detected a problem with the OHLE and dropped the pan, and for some reason was unable to be reset? Just seems too ironic to me that one unit failed in what I believe it roughly the same location as the next unit ran into downed overheads.

At the moment it looks to have been a very unfortunate coincidence.

 

[Paul_10]

For those who are interested in unit numbers the units involved in todays incidents were 350402+350408. 350402 must of been the unit that failed and 350408 came to rescue it. Both units parked up in Lancaster P3 in darkness and pantographs down late on tonight.

I assumed the voyager that was reported on here earlier did end up rescuring the passengers eventually? Might of been the same voyager that was in platform 4 at the same time as the 350 sightings.

Tomorrow will no doubt end up being quite a disruptive day on the WCML unfortunately.

 

[HOOVER29]

1M92 07:10 Glasgow Central to Manchester Airport is cancelled tomorrow due to “damage to overhead electric wires.”

Currently alongside platform 1 at GC.

 

[a_c_skinner]

Predictions of disruption seem correct looking at RTT. I'll post again if my Barrow-Airport train doesn't make Manchester, I'm off to London via MAN, prefer to lose an hour than get into the chaos. Scottish trains will be very busy judging by the numbers not running.

(I couldn't get an itinerary from National Enq. site for via Skipton and Sheffield, though looking at the routing guide it seems permitted. Can't face arguments on the train!)

 

[Fleetwood Boy]

Got to say that I experienced this first hand, as a passenger, and it was an extremely well organised emergency bus replacement. Despite a massive queue at Preston, staff involved dealt with people very effectively, the queue kept moving and within an hour I was on a bus, less than two hours later in Carlisle.

Carlisle itself was something of a shambles as the forecourt just can’t cope with large volumes of buses, and they really need a better arrangement in future.

I waited just 10 minutes for a train north (actually formed of the double voyager which had done the rescue earlier in the day, and was forming a special service from Lancaster), but only caught that because the bus driver took pity on us and dropped us off short of the turning area at Carlisle Citadel, earning a boll@@king from the supervisor but everyone else’s heartfelt thanks.

edit to add: pretty sure that the second trapped pendolino was dragged back south by a loco off a freight that was in the loop at Broughton. Seemed to be how it worked watching on Opentimestrains. Carlisle thunderbird eventually rescuing the first trapped pendolino.

 

[Fleetwood Boy]

I was a bit surprised that no attempt was made to terminate at Lancaster rather than Carlisle from the north. Sure there’s a good reason, but all the main platforms are bi-directional so an hourly Glasgow-Lancaster must be feasible and would only need half of Virgin’s crews and sets compared to the normal timetable? Perhaps with TPE doing an hourly Edinburgh-Carlisle connection?

 

[Rail Ranger]

The incident again demonstrates the folly of Virgin not maintaining route knowledge via Blackburn, Hellifield and the Settle & Carlisle line.

 

[JonathanH]

The incident again demonstrates the folly of Virgin not maintaining route knowledge via Blackburn, Hellifield and the Settle & Carlisle line.

No it doesn't. They only have a limited fleet of trains that can go that way and it is quicker to go by coach than be diverted.

 

[Ianno87]

The incident again demonstrates the folly of Virgin not maintaining route knowledge via Blackburn, Hellifield and the Settle & Carlisle line.

Costly to maintain and very rarely required.

Why don't people get this?

 

[Rail Ranger]

Costly to maintain and very rarely required.
Why don't people get this?

Having a different view is allowed chaps! Passengers have chosen to travel by train and have paid for a rail journey. Surveys have consistently shown that passengers prefer their train to be diverted rather than using bus replacements (even if the journey time is a bit longer). BR would have diverted via the S&C. I hope that a more joined-up railway will again do so in the future.

 

[yorksrob]

Costly to maintain and very rarely required.

Why don't people get this?

The number of times it happens suggests that it's not as rare as some on here like to make out.

Perhaps the situation has been rectified in the new franchise agreement ?

 

[Elecman]

possession handed back trains running through now

 

[JonathanH]

Having a different view is allowed chaps! Passengers have chosen to travel by train and have paid for a rail journey. Surveys have consistently shown that passengers prefer their train to be diverted rather than using bus replacements. BR would have diverted via the S&C. I hope that a more joined-up railway will again do so in the future.

There isn't enough rolling stock to divert trains that way and, at short notice, it won't be in the right place.

While there are some Voyagers still used on anglo-Scottish workings, most are Pendolinos.

In BR days you might have been able to commandeer some locomotives to haul trains via the Settle and Carlisle line but they aren't lying around now (or suitable).

The time penalty is enormous.

 

[JonathanH]

Perhaps the situation has been rectified in the new franchise agreement ?

It will be even less likely if (part of) the Voyager fleet is being replaced by straight electric trains.

 

[yorksrob]

It will be even less likely if Voyagers are being replaced by straight electric trains.

Presumably they'll still need something to run to Chester/Holyhead.

The sensible thing would have been to have the sleeper as part of the franchise (or at least using a common pool of drivers and guards), then you could use it as a long and windy route learner.

And of course, no Pretendolino any more either !

 

[driver9000]

Did that 350 fail in roughly the same place where the OHLE issues were? And do we know why it failed?

The 350 failed near Garstang and the OLE came down near Bay Horse. Several miles between those locations.

 

[Rail Ranger]

There isn't enough rolling stock to divert trains that way and, at short notice, it won't be in the right place.
While there are some Voyagers still used on anglo-Scottish workings, most are Pendolinos.
In BR days you might have been able to commandeer some locomotives to haul trains via he Settle and Carlisle line but they aren't lying around now (or suitable).
The time penalty is enormous.

Virgin themselves diverted via the S&C until around 15 years ago. It can be done if the will is there but of course maintaining route knowledge costs money and is an easy target if spending cuts are required. It used to be done by Virgin Preston drivers driving the Sunday Dalesrail train.

 

[JonathanH]

Virgin themselves diverted via the S&C until around 15 years ago.

As recently as 10 years ago. However, there are fewer Voyager services on the Northern part of the WCML now and at short notice, you can't change the whole train plan to make them available for diversions even if the route knowledge was there.