WCML disruption Preston to Lancaster 27/11/19

[Rail Ranger]

As recently as 10 years ago. However, there are fewer Voyager services on the Northern part of the WCML now and at short notice, you can't change the whole train plan to make them available for diversions even if the route knowledge was there.

There is something called contingency planning which BR was very good at but which the privatised railway seems incapable of doing.

 

[sprinterguy]

Presumably they'll still need something to run to Chester/Holyhead.

Yeah there'll be thirteen bi-mode sets; but with fewer self-powered trains, focused solely on genuine off-wires services, there'll be even less likelihood of them assisting with ad-hoc diversions on the northern WCML.

 

[JonathanH]

There is something called contingency planning which BR was very good at but which the privatised railway seems incapable of doing.

It appears that an effective contingency plan was enacted yesterday by the account of 4000 passengers being moved by coach and passengers diverted to other routes mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

[underbank]

pretty sure that the second trapped pendolino was dragged back south by a loco off a freight that was in the loop at Broughton. Seemed to be how it worked watching on Opentimestrains. Carlisle thunderbird eventually rescuing the first trapped pendolino.

No, it was Crewe's Thunderbird that dragged back two passenger trains to Preston (the TPE behind them, also stuck, reversed itself up the down line to Preston a few hours earlier). The same Thunderbird then dragged back the Tesco freight which had been in the Broughton loop for several hours.

I think the whole fiasco underlines the need for a Thunderbird stationed at Preston, as them being so far away delayed the rescues whilst waiting for them to arrive (not helped that they weren't even called for until an hour or two after the trains first became trapped).

 

[underbank]

It appears that an effective contingency plan was enacted yesterday by the account of 4000 passengers being moved by coach and passengers diverted to other routes mentioned earlier in this thread.

Yes, eventually, but these things take far too long to set in motion. Local social media and local radio/tv has had a lot of personal accounts , it sounds the same old story of no/little information and little action in the first couple of hours (and no info at all on the trains other than the on board staff saying they just don't know, so at least they were honest). People in queues for buses at stations for 2 hours, people stuck on trapped trains for 4/5 hours without toilets. Also people reporting they couldn't buy food/drink on board because the card machines were down due to lack of electric - why wasn't that provided free - is it reasonable to expect people to pay when they're trapped for a few hours? At the very least, the contingency plans need to be enacted far sooner. It always works out in the end, but the timescales seem glacially slow to get them started.

 

[Sherlock]

57307 is currently rescuing 390 006 in carnforth sidings.

 

[a_c_skinner]

Sitting at home having delayed my trip to London until the worst is over.

A common thread running through all the recent failures I've read about is the huge amount of time it takes to rescue the passengers on failed/trapped trains. It isn't good enough. There is speculation up thread that people might have alighted onto the track, a serious matter obviously if it happens. The "system" needs quicker rescues if only to mitigate this risk. What we do now won't do.

Meanwhile the next Arnside train beckons...

 

[underbank]

Sitting at home having delayed my trip to London until the worst is over.

A common thread running through all the recent failures I've read about is the huge amount of time it takes to rescue the passengers on failed/trapped trains. It isn't good enough. There is speculation up thread that people might have alighted onto the track, a serious matter obviously if it happens. The "system" needs quicker rescues if only to mitigate this risk. What we do now won't do.

Meanwhile the next Arnside train beckons...

Yes, people did alight as they need to go to the loo and behind bushes is better than train aisles/seats. You can't expect anything less when they're trapped on a stationery train with no loos for over 4 hours!

 

[sprinterguy]

There appears to be movement through Lancaster again in both directions. I've been watching things intently as I'm supposed to be heading up to Edinburgh this afternoon, and for reasons unknown I never seem to have a great deal of luck making it past Lancaster successfully.

 

[Muenchener]

There appears to be movement through Lancaster again in both directions. I've been watching things intently as I'm supposed to be heading up to Edinburgh this afternoon, and for reasons unknown I never seem to have a great deal of luck making it past Lancaster successfully.

May the Force be with you...

 

[HOOVER29]

There appears to be movement through Lancaster again in both directions. I've been watching things intently as I'm supposed to be heading up to Edinburgh this afternoon, and for reasons unknown I never seem to have a great deal of luck making it past Lancaster successfully.

I suggest we make some sort of pact. You tell us when you’re travelling north & we won’t bother

 

[Grumpy Git]

Yes, people did alight as they need to go to the loo and behind bushes is better than train aisles/seats. You can't expect anything less when they're trapped on a stationery train with no loos for over 4 hours!

If only the CEO of VTWC would have been on board! It might have got rescued a bit sooner then though?

Like everything else in a capitalist society, the shareholders have to be paid and if they get paid more by having less contingency, so be it. It's not going to change anytime soon.

 

[underbank]

If only the CEO of VTWC would have been on board! It might have got rescued a bit sooner then though?

Like everything else in a capitalist society, the shareholders have to be paid and if they get paid more by having less contingency, so be it. It's not going to change anytime soon.

Are the Thunderbirds owned/rented by VTWC then? I thought they'd have been owned/operated by another firm, maybe DRS? Wouldn't VTWC just hire then in as and when needed to rescue, or is it Network Rail responsible to rescue stranded trains due to infrastructure failures? Not sure how the CEO could have got things moving quicker if such rescues are in the hands of another body such as NR?

 

[sprinterguy]

I suggest we make some sort of pact. You tell us when you’re travelling north & we won’t bother

I'll try and keep you posted in future. I'm supposed to be coming back south through Lancaster tomorrow teatime, so you have been duly warned...

May the Force be with you...

Thanks muchly!

 

[sprinterguy]

Are the Thunderbirds owned/rented by VTWC then? I thought they'd have been owned/operated by another firm, maybe DRS? Wouldn't VTWC just hire then in as and when needed to rescue, or is it Network Rail responsible to rescue stranded trains due to infrastructure failures? Not sure how the CEO could have got things moving quicker if such rescues are in the hands of another body such as NR?

The Thunderbirds are hired from DRS. They're permanently available on standby with Virgin, which is the rationale behind Thunderbird locos.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

VT has a contract with DRS for class 57s for rescue standby, but the numbers have been reduced.
There used to be one based at Preston, and it was used each night for a 390 ECS move to Longsight.
However that is not needed now the wires are up.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Are the Thunderbirds owned/rented by VTWC then? I thought they'd have been owned/operated by another firm, maybe DRS? Wouldn't VTWC just hire then in as and when needed to rescue, or is it Network Rail responsible to rescue stranded trains due to infrastructure failures? Not sure how the CEO could have got things moving quicker if such rescues are in the hands of another body such as NR?

It might have concentrated their mind for when such events happen in the future. It's bad enough on trains when everything is running to time but half the toilets are out of use.

 

[Mathew S]

Yes, eventually, but these things take far too long to set in motion. Local social media and local radio/tv has had a lot of personal accounts , it sounds the same old story of no/little information and little action in the first couple of hours (and no info at all on the trains other than the on board staff saying they just don't know, so at least they were honest). People in queues for buses at stations for 2 hours, people stuck on trapped trains for 4/5 hours without toilets. Also people reporting they couldn't buy food/drink on board because the card machines were down due to lack of electric - why wasn't that provided free - is it reasonable to expect people to pay when they're trapped for a few hours? At the very least, the contingency plans need to be enacted far sooner. It always works out in the end, but the timescales seem glacially slow to get them started.

It takes however long it takes. I'm sure that nobody is sat in a control room delaying things on purpose. We all know that the WCML is stupidly congested, underfunded (like everything else on the railway), and stretched to breaking point - frankly it's a wonder things don't go wrong more often.

 

[stu]

The 12:00 from Glasgow to London was put into a loop somewhere north of Carlise around 1pm ish, I saw a light engine DRS loco zoom past us not much later so where would have this loco been stationed?

(Excuse the basic explanation, I'm more of a passenger with interest than anything else!)

 

[headshot119]

Got to say that I experienced this first hand, as a passenger, and it was an extremely well organised emergency bus replacement. Despite a massive queue at Preston, staff involved dealt with people very effectively, the queue kept moving and within an hour I was on a bus, less than two hours later in Carlisle.

Carlisle itself was something of a shambles as the forecourt just can’t cope with large volumes of buses, and they really need a better arrangement in future.

I waited just 10 minutes for a train north (actually formed of the double voyager which had done the rescue earlier in the day, and was forming a special service from Lancaster), but only caught that because the bus driver took pity on us and dropped us off short of the turning area at Carlisle Citadel, earning a boll@@king from the supervisor but everyone else’s heartfelt thanks.

edit to add: pretty sure that the second trapped pendolino was dragged back south by a loco off a freight that was in the loop at Broughton. Seemed to be how it worked watching on Opentimestrains. Carlisle thunderbird eventually rescuing the first trapped pendolino.

Given the current closure of Victoria Viaduct in Carlisle, an alternative pick up / drop off was out of the question.

 

[sprinterguy]

The 12:00 from Glasgow to London was put into a loop somewhere north of Carlise around 1pm ish, I saw a light engine DRS loco zoom past us not much later so where would have this loco been stationed?

I suspect that was this Motherwell to Carlisle Kingmoor move, which passed you while you were looped at Beattock:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O63512/2019-11-27/detailed

In normal practice, it would have been the DRS movement that gets put into the loop there to allow the 12:00 Glasgow - London to pass!

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

From a friend who is a TM at VT:

1. TPE 350 failed at Garstang this morning.

2. Another 350 resuced the failed 350 and dragged it to Lancaster.

3. Unknown to everyone the 'Resuce 350' pulled the Wires down (yet got through)

4. They let a 390 out of Preston, only to plowh into the section where the Wires came down. Trapped!

5. They let 'another 390 out of Preston only to get stuck behind the trapped 390! (That got dragged back to Preston with a 57).

6. Everyone 'self evacuated' off the failed 390 as it was stuck there for hours.

Crumbs, how many hours are we talking???

 

[underbank]

Crumbs, how many hours are we talking???

There were people who'd set off from London/Birmingham first thing and didn't get off the trains until they were dragged back to Preston at 3pm/4pm in the afternoon, after being stationery for 3/4/5 hours in the affected area. More personal reports are being broadcast on local radio this morning. One guy was complaining that when they were finally dragged back to Preston (after having to wait for trains behind them to be dragged back), they were told to go to the back of the huge queue for replacement buses (1 hour plus on the road outside the station) - saying they didn't even let them "jump the queue" to get on a sooner bus. That kind of thing is completely out of order, just making a bad situation even worse. After being trapped for so long, they should have been waved straight onto a bus, or better still, a taxi to compensate!

 

[Robertj21a]

As I often think on similar threads, we take replacement buses and coaches so much for granted. Once again, they seem to have got this well sorted, once they were called out.
Just imagine if there were no buses or drivers so readily available !

 

[Scousemouse]

I'm just hoping the 1400 from Glasgow leaves and runs on time - I need to catch it from wigan and change at wolverhampton - and the change is VERY tight.

 

[Bertie the bus]

It appears that an effective contingency plan was enacted yesterday by the account of 4000 passengers being moved by coach and passengers diverted to other routes mentioned earlier in this thread.

You call a queue of people 300 yards long at around 16:00 waiting for buses when there was a pair of Voyagers in Preston station that could have taken nearly the whole lot in one go via the S&C an effective contingency plan? Seriously?

 

[Grumpy Git]

I'm just hoping the 1400 from Glasgow leaves and runs on time - I need to catch it from wigan and change at wolverhampton - and the change is VERY tight.

What about heading to Lime St from Wigan and avoiding the disruption further north altogether?

 

[Grumpy Git]

You call a queue of people 300 yards long at around 16:00 waiting for buses when there was a pair of Voyagers in Preston station that could have taken nearly the whole lot in one go via the S&C an effective contingency plan? Seriously?

hear hear.

 

[a_c_skinner]

Still chaos, but resolving. My early start in London has lapsed to a pair of Voyagers via the West Mids.

The 390 in CARNFORTH seemed hooked up to the 57. The southern pantograph looked mangled.

 

[Scousemouse]

What about heading to Lime St from Wigan and avoiding the disruption further north altogether?

Because I have a car parking pass for wigan station so I need to go from there - as that is where I will return to on Monday

Also, I'm going to Taunton so at best I get in at 2015 if I make the tight connection at Wolverhampton - at worst I would get in at 2115.

If I park up at Wigan at 1600 the earliest I would get to Taunton if I went via Liverpool (or Manchester) is:

2144 if I go via liverpool
2118 if I go via Manchester

But as I have an advance first class ticket from wolverhampton to Taunton - I'd probably need to bu a new ticket. If I suck up the delays, at least I'd get my money back