WCML InterCity Franchise

[pt_mad]

A while ago I posted a thread which showed future trademark names that the DfT owned. Two of them were: LMS and London Midland & Scottish.

Here is the list of Trademarked names. I am expecting the franchisee to be trading as London Midland & Scottish (LMS).

https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=501407&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003270382

Anyone expecting the day when a customer at the station says, 'oh, I thought I was catching an express train not a London Midland'?

 

[pt_mad]

Didn't a poster further up link to BBC North West Tonight with a claim that the BBC had received information that MTR had won???

 

[andyj158]

Oh god please no, not First Group.

Having endured Transpennie Express on a daily basis for just over a year now, if First do get the West Coast Mainline I predict a fall in reliability = a fall in passengers = a fall in profits = franchise being handed back.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh god please no, not First Group.

Having endured Transpennie Express on a daily basis for just over a year now, if First do get the West Coast Mainline I predict a fall in reliability = a fall in passengers = a fall in profits = franchise being handed back.

We might be saved by FirstGroup not existing long enough to take it on.

 

[pt_mad]

Oh god please no, not First Group.

Having endured Transpennie Express on a daily basis for just over a year now, if First do get the West Coast Mainline I predict a fall in reliability = a fall in passengers = a fall in profits = franchise being handed back.

Why's that? It will be the same tilting train stock, at least for a good many years at the start, similar or the same calling pattern with the VHF timetable, and much of the necessities of the franchise will surely be protected in agreements made with the DFT?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

We might be saved by FirstGroup not existing long enough to take it on.

In which case it would "go to the Chinese", just like Crossrail.
Although I don't think MTR is in the pockets of the PRC, at least not yet.

 

[RPI]

Oh god please no, not First Group.

Having endured Transpennie Express on a daily basis for just over a year now, if First do get the West Coast Mainline I predict a fall in reliability = a fall in passengers = a fall in profits = franchise being handed back.

Strange, First have (yet) to hand any franchise back yet Stagecoach/Virgin have previous yet they can do no wrong.....

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Didn't a poster further up link to BBC North West Tonight with a claim that the BBC had received information that MTR had won???

That I think was on the basis that First Group were struggling and Virgin/Stagecoach had been barred so it was assumed that MTR's bid would win, however now it seems FirstGroup will be the winner and the sources seem to be coming from advisers to Grayling. However, we should find out this week.

 

[irish_rail]

Oh god please no, not First Group.

Having endured Transpennie Express on a daily basis for just over a year now, if First do get the West Coast Mainline I predict a fall in reliability = a fall in passengers = a fall in profits = franchise being handed back.

First group are a darn sight better than virgin! Pendolino interior remains the benchmark of appalling intercity train interior whilst it is virgin we can thank for thrusting voyagers on us. Everything about the virgin brand screams of tackyness .
I for one hope first group have indeed won this competition.

 

[700007]

Hoping for an MTR win, but hey ho...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

First group are a darn sight better than virgin! Pendolino interior remains the benchmark of appalling intercity train interior whilst it is virgin we can thank for thrusting voyagers on us. Everything about the virgin brand screams of tackyness .
I for one hope first group have indeed won this competition.

VT doubling passengers on ICWC tells a different story.
And on Voyagers, there is no current WCML (ie tilting) solution which will deliver faster journey times to off-wire routes like North Wales or Shrewsbury.

 

[irish_rail]

VT doubling passengers on ICWC tells a different story.
And on Voyagers, there is no current WCML (ie tilting) solution which will deliver faster journey times to off-wire routes like North Wales or Shrewsbury.

I would argue the growth is very much in spite of the pendolinos interior.

 

[3141]

I would argue the growth is very much in spite of the pendolinos interior.

Have a look at the current thread about what ordinary passengers think. I doubt that most passengers have a view about the interior of the Pendolinos. Some people may have had a view fifteen years ago when they were new, but they'll be used to them now, and it's most unlikely that any significant number of passengers have to grit their teeth when they buy a ticket for a Virgin train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would argue the growth is very much in spite of the pendolinos interior.

While some enthusiasts seem not to like it, I've never heard a non-enthusiast say anything disparaging about the Pendolino interior. Personally, I like the seats, particularly in 1st but Standard is fine too. A bit lacking legroom in the normal seats but priority seats aren't generally hard to get, and because those of limited mobility tend to reserve it's unusual to be unseated from one.

 

[Bertie the bus]

While some enthusiasts seem not to like it, I've never heard a non-enthusiast say anything disparaging about the Pendolino interior.

All I can say is you haven't looked very hard. There was a survey, I think by Passenger Focus (as was), in which Pendolinos scored very low in almost all categories. I'm sure somebody can find it if they desire. Even the head of Transport Focus has said he dislikes Pendolinos.

 

[pt_mad]

It'd be good if they could take out those seats where there's a blank plastic panel in place of a window. If they could put luggage racks there and move those seats to where the luggage racks were, that might mean more passengers get more natural light at all seats during daytime.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

All I can say is you haven't looked very hard. There was a survey, I think by Passenger Focus (as was), in which Pendolinos scored very low in almost all categories. I'm sure somebody can find it if they desire. Even the head of Transport Focus has said he dislikes Pendolinos.

Pendolinos are the inevitable result of needing a fully tilting profile.
You can't have 125mph (or the 140mph they were deigned for) and have a generous non-tilting interior.
Do you want short journey times or extra passenger space?
They also perform exceptionally well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It'd be good if they could take out those seats where there's a blank plastic panel in place of a window. If they could put luggage racks there and move those seats to where the luggage racks were, that might mean more passengers get more natural light at all seats during daytime.

Yes, it would be possible to tweak with the layout a bit. But that's true of many trains - since the Class 158 it has become the trend to be lazy with layouts and not pay any attention to window alignment.

 

[route101]

While some enthusiasts seem not to like it, I've never heard a non-enthusiast say anything disparaging about the Pendolino interior. Personally, I like the seats, particularly in 1st but Standard is fine too. A bit lacking legroom in the normal seats but priority seats aren't generally hard to get, and because those of limited mobility tend to reserve it's unusual to be unseated from one.

I have no problems with them , could be updated inside .

 

[Bertie the bus]

Here's a snippet of what Transport Focus say real passengers think about Pendolinos:

Looking at long-distance trains, he said passengers “love the old Grand Central HSTs” but they think Pendolinos and FGW HSTs are “ghastly” in terms of passenger comfort, even though the HST would always struggle to meet all the different passenger needs on the routes it serves. But the Hitachi IEP mock-ups he’s seen so far are “looking fairly positive”.

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...ed-and-a-spontaneous-negative-in-focus-groups

 

[irish_rail]

Indeed. I have a friend with no railway interest whatsoever however he will not travel on pendolinos anymore preferring to travel on class 350s instead when travelling to the north west.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed. I have a friend with no railway interest whatsoever however he will not travel on pendolinos anymore preferring to travel on class 350s instead when travelling to the north west.

I bet that is not unrelated to the rather lower price of doing so.

 

[irish_rail]

No it's because he appreciates the better legroom and bigger windows for your information.

 

[KashmireHawker]

CityAM report that if Coast Capital succeed in there overthrow of the board on Tuesday, they will instantly withdraw First from running WCP, calling the Telegraph story a "disturbing revelation"

https://www.cityam.com/activist-investor-coast-capital-rails-against-first-franchise-bid/

 

[pt_mad]

Yes, it would be possible to tweak with the layout a bit. But that's true of many trains - since the Class 158 it has become the trend to be lazy with layouts and not pay any attention to window alignment.

To be fair though it's not just poor window alignment, it's no window there at all where there's an outline of one but it's filled in. So there's not even at window at the seat in front which gives you some light. I have reserved the two rear seats at that table before unknowingly with an advance which came with an auto reservation. And was gutted when me and the better half got on and couldn't watch the scenery or even see the outside on our side of the train.

 

[Hadders]

The windows on a Pendolino aren't great but I believe they're a compromise of crash worthiness and the need to accommodate the tilt profile within the normal loading gauge. One good thing the IETs are better at.

However, overall the Pendolinos have been transformational for the WCML with superb reliability despite being thrashed heavily, reduced journey times and bringing a touch of glamour in the eyes of the general public.

 

[Bertie the bus]

However, overall the Pendolinos have been transformational for the WCML with superb reliability despite being thrashed heavily, reduced journey times and bringing a touch of glamour in the eyes of the general public.

Do you work in the Virgin Trains PR department?

 

[sufian123]

The windows on a Pendolino aren't great but I believe they're a compromise of crash worthiness and the need to accommodate the tilt profile within the normal loading gauge. One good thing the IETs are better at.

However, overall the Pendolinos have been transformational for the WCML with superb reliability despite being thrashed heavily, reduced journey times and bringing a touch of glamour in the eyes of the general public.

Crashed worthiness was the word of Branson. After 07 incident.

 

[3141]

Here's a snippet of what Transport Focus say real passengers think about Pendolinos:

Looking at long-distance trains, he said passengers “love the old Grand Central HSTs” but they think Pendolinos and FGW HSTs are “ghastly” in terms of passenger comfort, even though the HST would always struggle to meet all the different passenger needs on the routes it serves. But the Hitachi IEP mock-ups he’s seen so far are “looking fairly positive”.

Carefully researched and objectively assessed, I suppose.

 

[andyj158]

Why's that? It will be the same tilting train stock, at least for a good many years at the start, similar or the same calling pattern with the VHF timetable, and much of the necessities of the franchise will surely be protected in agreements made with the DFT?

I'm just of a belief that whenever First Group run something they always seem to find a way to mess it up.

Maybe it's because where I live our main local bus route is run by First, with buses often missing or late. In the early evening though when Stagecoach take over it manages to run fine. Then when our train services switched from Northern to First TPE in May last year we now very often face delays, cancellation or services terminating early. Northern ran the service fine.

Even me as a rail enthusiast now chooses to avoid using TPE services for anything other than the commute. I had to travel to Hull with work recently and even though it's a direct service for the station I can see if I look out of the living room window, I opted for a hire car. If someone would have told me told I'd be doing that before we got TPE I'd have not believed them. If they are managing to drive the likes of me away from their services then I'm sure the none enthusiasts would have given up using them unless they had to a long time before me. That can't be good for business.

I may hopefully be wrong and they could be a huge success if they are successful on the west coast.