"We don't accept the gold card"

Status
Not open for further replies.

toppington

Member
Joined
19 Mar 2016
Messages
24
Odd question here, wondering if any of you can help!

I've got a gold card between Watford Junction and Wolverton to get to work. It is valid via any permitted route.

Yesterday a couple of trains on the London Midland route were cancelled. I was looking to travel from London Euston north, and so approached the ticket office at Euston to see if I could purchase a ticket from Euston to Watford and then use the GC from Watford north, but if this would be valid on Virgin services - seeing as a couple of LM trains were cancelled.

The ticket office advised that they could sell me a ticket from Euston to Watford but that it would only be valid on LM services- the reason being that "here at Virgin Trains we don't accept the gold card".

Was just wondering if anyone could explain if this is the right reasoning, or if it's just that because no Virgin trains stop at Watford at that time of the day, my ticket wouldn't be valid as the train doesn't call there?

Thank you in advance!
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

transportphoto

Established Member
Associate Staff
Quizmaster
Joined
21 Jan 2010
Messages
4,029
Your ticket would be valid, the train does not need to stop at the point at which you split tickets whereby one of the tickets is a season and the other is/are not (19c NRCoC).

I may be mistaken, however Virgin refuse to honour the Gold Card discount aboard their services. This should not apply to them honouring the valid season ticket as a travel ticket.

I'd be considering placing a complaint for this.

TP
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
12,707
If you had purchased a *non-discounted* ticket from Euston to Watford, and then used your season ticket from there, you would have been fine to use it on a Virgin service not stopping at Watford.

Virgin still accept season tickets that just so happen to be issued as Gold Cards, but will not accept tickets discounted by a Gold Card (if that makes sense)
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
53,195
Location
Yorkshire
I don't think it's an enforceable restriction, but it's a can of worms!
 

AM9

Established Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
9,525
Location
St Albans
It's a farce that Virgin can opt out of a scheme that covers 9 of the major stations that their services regularly call at, 5 of which are operated by Virgin. Yet another by-product of the pseudo-privatised railway that claims to have national ticketing.
 

Tim R-T-C

Established Member
Joined
23 May 2011
Messages
2,140
It's a farce that Virgin can opt out of a scheme that covers 9 of the major stations that their services regularly call at, 5 of which are operated by Virgin. Yet another by-product of the pseudo-privatised railway that claims to have national ticketing.

Perhaps they object to a valuable discount offer being made exclusively to residents of the South-East that us poor Northeners are not allowed to take advantage of... <D
 

maniacmartin

Established Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
15 May 2012
Messages
5,223
Location
Croydon
Sadly you were advised correctly - Virgin West Coast doesn't accept Gold card discounts any more.. As you can see on the new Gold card map, the map was recently changed and is now somewhat different to the Network Railcard map.

The area was expanded, but a TOC restriction was introduced. The participating TOCs are detailed at the top of the map.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
24,747
Location
UK
When there was disruption earlier this year, I had a Gold Card discount ticket for LM but trains weren't running. I asked various staff if I could travel on Virgin as tickets were being passed, but I knew they don't accept GC tickets.

All either said no or they weren't sure. Suffice to say, the train manager said it was absolutely fine.

I was even allowed breakfast on the train, and arrived quicker than I would have done on the LM train if it had run!
 

hairyhandedfool

Established Member
Joined
14 Apr 2008
Messages
8,837
When there was disruption earlier this year, I had a Gold Card discount ticket for LM but trains weren't running. I asked various staff if I could travel on Virgin as tickets were being passed, but I knew they don't accept GC tickets.

All either said no or they weren't sure. Suffice to say, the train manager said it was absolutely fine.

I was even allowed breakfast on the train, and arrived quicker than I would have done on the LM train if it had run!

When disruption occurs, train companies can agree to allow each others tickets on their services, this is not uncommon, however, train managers tend to have greater discretionary powers, on their train, than station staff do.

A point I would make here however, is that if the tickets are bought after the disruption is known about, this same level of discretion, or agreement, may not apply.
 

Haywain

Established Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
5,588
Odd question here, wondering if any of you can help!

I've got a gold card between Watford Junction and Wolverton to get to work. It is valid via any permitted route.

Yesterday a couple of trains on the London Midland route were cancelled. I was looking to travel from London Euston north, and so approached the ticket office at Euston to see if I could purchase a ticket from Euston to Watford and then use the GC from Watford north, but if this would be valid on Virgin services - seeing as a couple of LM trains were cancelled.

The ticket office advised that they could sell me a ticket from Euston to Watford but that it would only be valid on LM services- the reason being that "here at Virgin Trains we don't accept the gold card".

Was just wondering if anyone could explain if this is the right reasoning, or if it's just that because no Virgin trains stop at Watford at that time of the day, my ticket wouldn't be valid as the train doesn't call there?

Thank you in advance!
I think that you may have confused the staff you spoke to by referring to a Gold Card rather than a season ticket, as one would imply a discounted ticket being used while the other is entirely valid.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The area was expanded, but a TOC restriction was introduced. The participating TOCs are detailed at the top of the map.
I believe that this TOC restriction was the only way an agreement to expand the area, in the way LM (and others) wanted, could be reached. The alternative being to have no change at all. As with Groupsave, I take the view that the TOC restriction is shown by application of the discount being indicated on the ticket.
 

maniacmartin

Established Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
15 May 2012
Messages
5,223
Location
Croydon
I think that you may have confused the staff you spoke to by referring to a Gold Card rather than a season ticket

Confused me too - a schoolboy error on my part :cry:

Using the Gold card as a season ticket rather than a railcard is valid on Virgin in my opinion. If a season ticket is combined with non season(s) then the train would also not need to call at the station where you change tickets.
 
Last edited:

Haywain

Established Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
5,588
Using the Gold card as a season ticket rather than a railcard is valid on Virgin in my opinion. If a season ticket is combined with non season(s) then the train would also not need to call at the station where you change tickets.
I completely agree, but I think it is best referred to as a season ticket when being used as such, and only as a Gold Card when being used to buy (or use) a discounted ticket.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
53,195
Location
Yorkshire
I don't think NRCoC Condition 10 is trumped, so will have to agree to disagree with those who do.

The validity of a ticket may:
a) be restricted to; or
b) prohibit
travel in the trains of a particular Train Company or Train Companies. Any such restriction
or prohibition will be shown on the ticket....
 

hairyhandedfool

Established Member
Joined
14 Apr 2008
Messages
8,837
Condition 10 does not say how the prohibition or restriction should be shown on the ticket. As Haywain and Owlman note, the restriction is caused by application of a discount and the discount is shown on the ticket.
 

island

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
11,934
Location
0036
As am I. The term GOLDC (or however it appears on new style tickets) indicates that a ticket has been issued with Gold Card discount, and therefore has all the restrictions attached to that (such as not being valid before 0930 even when the underlying ticket is).
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Events Co-ordinator
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
16,109
Location
Manchester
I completely agree, but I think it is best referred to as a season ticket when being used as such, and only as a Gold Card when being used to buy (or use) a discounted ticket.

Staff, train companies and passengers refer to season tickets which are also Gold Cards as Gold Cards, even when the discount card element of this is not relevant (as is most likely the case, most of the time). So this suits this situation perfectly but is terribly idealistic. It's hardly a difficult concept anyway. I'm shocked if you mean that there are any staff on the ground who don't understand the difference between the two functions of this ubiquitous product.
 

RJ

Established Member
Joined
25 Jun 2005
Messages
7,707
Location
Rail replacement bus cab
I don't think NRCoC Condition 10 is trumped, so will have to agree to disagree with those who do.

I view this in the same vein as trying to use a Network Railcard discounted Northampton to Reading Not via London ticket via Coventry. I believe discounted ticket restrictions are covered by Condition 10, so long as the discount is shown on the ticket.
 
Last edited:

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
65,449
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Staff, train companies and passengers refer to season tickets which are also Gold Cards as Gold Cards, even when the discount card element of this is not relevant (as is most likely the case, most of the time). So this suits this situation perfectly but is terribly idealistic. It's hardly a difficult concept anyway. I'm shocked if you mean that there are any staff on the ground who don't understand the difference between the two functions of this ubiquitous product.

It might also be possible that this is another example of VT not accepting 19 (c) splits on their trains despite being required to do so, claiming something is only valid on LM.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Events Co-ordinator
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
16,109
Location
Manchester
I view this in the same vein as trying to use a Network Railcard discounted Northampton to Reading Not via London ticket via Coventry. I believe discounted ticket restrictions are covered by Condition 10, so long as the discount is shown on the ticket.

What about Gold Card discounted tickets from Exeter St Davids to Stafford? They're all routed Via Bristol :p
 

LexyBoy

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
4,472
Location
North of the rivers
Or indeed any of these fares - http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=LMS&dest=COV&rlc=NGC

I can't believe the intention is that they be used via Birmingham, particularly as they are priced by XC. I bought one last week, which was unquestioned on board the direct XC train.

Not being questioned does not make it valid - it's likely the guard was either unaware of the details of XC's Gold Card policy, or did not consider the Railcard in checking the ticket's validity.

The GC discount is available on tickets if both origin and destination are within the GC area, thus there will be cases where it can be applied but the resulting ticket cannot be used.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Events Co-ordinator
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
16,109
Location
Manchester
The GC discount is available on tickets if both origin and destination are within the GC area, thus there will be cases where it can be applied but the resulting ticket cannot be used.

Not usually. For example, for tickets from Reading to Worcester, only 'Via Evesham' fares were available with the discount. Others, including 'Evesham/Stroud' were not and are not. Similarly for Exeter St Davids to London Terminals, only the relevant Via Honiton fares are available. It seems to me that tickets that can be sold with a Gold Card discount but then not used are a new advent.

Another good example is Exeter St Davids to Shrewsbury where there is a Via Hereford fare available.
 

LexyBoy

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
4,472
Location
North of the rivers
You are correct. On the newly-expanded area though, there doesn't seem to have been a removal of discounted fares when they cannot be used as there is (by and large) on the original NSE area. I don't know whether this is because the same flag is used for both (and the Network Card is unchanged of course), or simply that there's not been the effort made.

Add Salisbury-Worcester and Cambridge-Birmingham (Not Via London) to the list!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top