Wellglade Group: Kinch, N+D, Trent, TM

[cnjb8]

I thought I'd make a thread because it's too hot to do anything else. Sorry if one exists already.
Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire County Council's websites state that timetable changes are coming for Comet, Skylink Clifton, Rapid One and Calverton.
The Comet is getting its later buses withdrawn and the R1 has a new route. There is no mention on Trents website (they leave it till late).
Make of that what you will, considering this is the millionth timetable change for the Skylink Clifton/Express.

 

[Deerfold]

There's a mildly huge thread here where Wellglade posts have ended up for the last few years:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/nottingham-bus-war.36750/

 

[43055]

Normally the timetables appear around two or three weeks before the change. DCC website sometimes get the up earlier. I would say Midland Classic can be bad for new timetables as they have left there's to a week before the changes.

It is interesting that the Rapid one is showing as the same route description as the Skylink Clifton on the Nottinghamshire website but I suspect this info is very recent. One thing that I would like (and wont happen) is the Skylink to call at East Midlands Parkway station which could help with passenger numbers for the route and the station.

 

[cnjb8]

Normally the timetables appear around two or three weeks before the change. DCC website sometimes get the up earlier. I would say Midland Classic can be bad for new timetables as they have left there's to a week before the changes.

It is interesting that the Rapid one is showing as the same route description as the Skylink Clifton on the Nottinghamshire website but I suspect this info is very recent. One thing that I would like (and wont happen) is the Skylink to call at East Midlands Parkway station which could help with passenger numbers for the route and the station.

Isn't there a shuttle bus run by a minivan between the Parkway and the Airport?
Probably the reason why it's a minivan is because people are unwilling to switch between a train and a bus just to get a flight.

 

[Deerfold]

Isn't there a shuttle bus run by a minivan between the Parkway and the Airport?
Probably the reason why it's a minivan is because people are unwilling to switch between a train and a bus just to get a flight.

There was an hourly minivan. There's a timetable at http://www.elitecars-uk.co.uk/timetable.html which claims it's £6 single. I can't find any registration for this service.

It might also be because there's only 2 long distance services an hour call at the station - and they're about 10 minutes apart.
Anyone heading for the airport is almost certain to have passed through Leicester, Nottingham, Derby or Long Eaton first - all of which have good bus connections to the airport. Why go there if you can go to Long Eaton and get a bus every 20 minutes which takes 20 minutes and costs £3.40?

 

[cnjb8]

There was an hourly minivan. There's a timetable at http://www.elitecars-uk.co.uk/timetable.html which claims it's £6 single. I can't find any registration for this service.

It might also be because there's only 2 long distance services an hour call at the station - and they're about 10 minutes apart.
Anyone heading for the airport is almost certain to have passed through Leicester, Nottingham, Derby or Long Eaton first - all of which have good bus connections to the airport. Why go there if you can go to Long Eaton and get a bus every 20 minutes which takes 20 minutes and costs £3.40?

Exactly.

 

[edwin_m]

Interested to see what they do with Skylink Clifton. I posted on here recently that the detour through Clifton is incredibly slow and if it stayed on the A453 it would probably save 10min and would stop within 5min walk of the places it stops now.

 

[Robertj21a]

Interested to see what they do with Skylink Clifton. I posted on here recently that the detour through Clifton is incredibly slow and if it stayed on the A453 it would probably save 10min and would stop within 5min walk of the places it stops now.

I'm not sure there's enough business for that Skylink Clifton anyway, much as there were few takers for the Skylink Express before it.

 

[cnjb8]

TM Travel have put on the fleet list page on their website (quite a while ago actually) that the 218 is getting rebranded (probably at the timetable change). FD53 WWH has been debranded as a result

 

[edwin_m]

I'm not sure there's enough business for that Skylink Clifton anyway, much as there were few takers for the Skylink Express before it.

You may well be right. It might help (once the initial confusion had died down) if they transferred the Nottingham name to the Clifton route and called what is now the Skylink Nottingham something else.

 

[SCH117X]

You may well be right. It might help (once the initial confusion had died down) if they transferred the Nottingham name to the Clifton route and called what is now the Skylink Nottingham something else.

Completely sensible as well; why they through the name of the service direct people on the slowest service between the Airport and Nottingham is something that is quite daft in the extreme.

 

[ivanhoe]

The passenger flows at East Midlands Airport and the surrounding business parks do not justify express direct good frequency services alone. They all need other passenger flows. Take the Leicester Skylink: It provides a fast bus service between Leicester and Loughborough and gives new travel opportunities for the villages between Loughborough and Derby.It provides a good service from the Town Centre to Derby, given that the railway station is a good hike from the Town Centre.Its successful because it is innovative.
The Nottingham Skylink is a confusing one if looked at from merely a flow from Notts to EMA. . It also encompasses the Loughborough-Sutton Bennington-Long Eaton and the relatively recent Coalville-Shepshed-EMA-Notts . Its clever timetabling means that 3 buses an hour serve EMA from Notts, although they are three different routes.
They are using the same principle of the Leicester Skylink in serving markets other than just the airport.

 

[edwin_m]

The passenger flows at East Midlands Airport and the surrounding business parks do not justify express direct good frequency services alone. They all need other passenger flows. Take the Leicester Skylink: It provides a fast bus service between Leicester and Loughborough and gives new travel opportunities for the villages between Loughborough and Derby.It provides a good service from the Town Centre to Derby, given that the railway station is a good hike from the Town Centre.Its successful because it is innovative.
The Nottingham Skylink is a confusing one if looked at from merely a flow from Notts to EMA. . It also encompasses the Loughborough-Sutton Bennington-Long Eaton and the relatively recent Coalville-Shepshed-EMA-Notts . Its clever timetabling means that 3 buses an hour serve EMA from Notts, although they are three different routes.
They are using the same principle of the Leicester Skylink in serving markets other than just the airport.

Indeed they are. But the Skylink Clifton/Express breaks that principle by serving only passengers between the airport and vicinity, Clifton and central Nottingham. If they think that market will generate enough ridership then they ought to give it a fair shot by naming it accordingly. Only a small proportion of the people on the current Skylink Nottingham are travelling between central Nottingham and EMA so the loss of those people should be a major threat to the service.

 

[raetiamann]

The comet service seems to be reverting to its earlier finishing, citing lack of patronage. It could be argued that one reason for that is that I never saw/heard any sort of notification of the later service; others may have had a similar lack of knowledge.

 

[43055]

Completely sensible as well; why they through the name of the service direct people on the slowest service between the Airport and Nottingham is something that is quite daft in the extreme.

The Nottingham Skylink did go via the A453 in NCT? Days. When Trent took the route over it was then rerouted via Long Eaton and extended beyond the airport. I suppose it has just stayed to save changing the name.

The times for most of the routes are now on Trent's website.

 

[Deerfold]

The Nottingham Skylink did go via the A453 in NCT? Days. When Trent took the route over it was then rerouted via Long Eaton and extended beyond the airport. I suppose it has just stayed to save changing the name.

Trentbarton only took over the name - they already operated 2 buses an hour to the airport (as part of the indigo service, formerly the 3/10/310). They rerouted these to a faster route avoiding Beeston town centre. These services both originally covered the Airport to Loughborough route too, now covered by Skylink Derby. The third service an hour came later.

The times for most of the routes are now on Trent's website.

The times for all of trentbarton's routes are on their website, unsurprisingly.

 

[43055]

Trentbarton only took over the name - they already operated 2 buses an hour to the airport (as part of the indigo service, formerly the 3/10/310). They rerouted these to a faster route avoiding Beeston town centre. These services both originally covered the Airport to Loughborough route too, now covered by Skylink Derby. The third service an hour came later.



The times for all of trentbarton's routes are on their website, unsurprisingly.

Thanks for the info on the indigo. I completely forgot it extended to the airport.

I mean the new timetables from the end of the month.

 

[Deerfold]

Thanks for the info on the indigo. I completely forgot it extended to the airport.

I lived on it when it was the 3/10/310. Oddly the evening 310 was operated by Barton with the Sunday Nottingham-EMA-Loughborough service run by NCT under council contract every 3 hours - so the Nottingham to EMA section of the route on Sundays has increased in frequency by 500% in 25 years.

I mean the new timetables from the end of the month.

That makes sense!

 

[Llandudno]

The comet service seems to be reverting to its earlier finishing, citing lack of patronage. It could be argued that one reason for that is that I never saw/heard any sort of notification of the later service; others may have had a similar lack of knowledge.

Yep, no promotion whatsoever of the late evening journeys, no wonder they didn’t pay.

Shame really for passengers from Alfreton, Clay Cross etc, as the 2320 Ex Chesterfield could have proved quite useful as somewhat later than the Stagecoach last buses.

I guess lack of inter availability of tickets on both operators services doesn’t help?

 

[cnjb8]

Timetable changes are on the Trent website. Rapid One gets a new stop in Nottingham, Hucknall Connect gets two new routes and Skylink Clifton will run down the A453 through Clifton (serving PandR and NTU Clifton Campus).
TM Travel are also withdrawing the Tesco Worksop services

 

[Samuel88]

Why is Trent Barton so adverse to using double deckers? On some of their routes like indigo and i4 their buses are crammed and not just during peak hours.

 

[ChrisC]

Timetable changes are on the Trent website. Rapid One gets a new stop in Nottingham, Hucknall Connect gets two new routes and Skylink Clifton will run down the A453 through Clifton (serving PandR and NTU Clifton Campus).

The Hucknall Connect new services were a surprise to me. I can’t really see the C2 route via the Vaughan Estate being much of a success. That side of Hucknall has seen an enormous amount of new housing in recent years on the other side of Papplewick Lane. The C2 is going straight down Papplewick Lane and then back to the tram stop through the Vaughan Estate without running through this huge new estate. The previous service which ran through the Vaughan Estate was mainly only used by a handful of elderly people who used it to reach Hucknall Town Centre for shopping. Also the timings along Papplewick Lane are almost at the same time as the hourly 141 service rather than providing a bus at half hourly intervals.

The C2 could run from Hucknall Station down Wigwam Lane and then along the whole length of the new Kelbrook Road to reach the Vaughan Estate at Hayden Lane. Instead of running straight down Papplewick Lane at exactly the same time as the 141 it could be serving a new Estate of well over 2,000 houses which currently has no buses. Looking at the timetable I would imagine that the same bus will also serve the C1 running up Watnall Road. If that is the case surely it would be better advertised as one through service also serving Hucknall Town Centre and linking both sides of Hucknall.

 

[cnjb8]

Why is Trent Barton so adverse to using double deckers? On some of their routes like indigo and i4 their buses are crammed and not just during peak hours.

They claim the passenger always wants to see the driver, something like that (people will say if I'm wrong) and they would reduce the frequency. I'd much rather have a 10min single Indigo then a 20min double Indigo.

 

[Deerfold]

I'd much rather have a 10min single Indigo then a 20min double Indigo.

Me too.

But I'd also rather have a seat on a bus than be worrying wether I'll get on or not.

 

[wazztie16]

Why is Trent Barton so adverse to using double deckers? On some of their routes like indigo and i4 their buses are crammed and not just during peak hours.

On the buses being busy, it's mainly because concessionary passes aren't accepted on the Red Arrow now, as I'm sure everyone knows, it's pushed those people onto the next fastest bus between Derby and Nottingham, the i4.

They don't like using double deckers, based on passenger safety, the driver can't assist anything that is happening upstairs that they aren't aware of like they could downstairs.

Based on some of the places they go through, I don't think single deckers is a bad idea.

 

[Simon75]

Wellglade group havnt expanded for some years now, what's are the odd buy say First Leicester (which they own 6%) or/and First Potteries ?

 

[cnjb8]

Wellglade group havnt expanded for some years now, what's are the odd buy say First Leicester (which they own 6%) or/and First Potteries ?

I don't know but that 6% is a headache for the new buyer.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Trent did use to use Double Deckers in the 80s

 

[Anthony ross]

I think buying any company that has shares that are owned by some one else is always a headache for a protenial buyer

 

[Comstock]

On the buses being busy, it's mainly because concessionary passes aren't accepted on the Red Arrow now, as I'm sure everyone knows, it's pushed those people onto the next fastest bus between Derby and Nottingham, the i4.

Is the i4 faster than the Y5?