Wellglade Group

[AdamSergent]

From what ive heard they are just for local routes in Nuneaton.

Afaik they do, but it's in one big booklet for all services, except the Skylink Derby which is separate. They can often be found onboard the local buses, I'm not sure where else they are stocked though!

I honesty dont get as to why Skylink Derby & Leicester is still a Kinchbus serivice. Considering that route uses TB branding, TB flags, the use of the Derby bus depot at times etc. It feels like a Trent Barton service with Kinchbus uniforms.

 

[busspotter1]

I honesty dont get as to why Skylink Derby & Leicester is still a Kinchbus serivice. Considering that route uses TB branding, TB flags, the use of the Derby bus depot at times etc. It feels like a Trent Barton service with Kinchbus uniforms.

I'm sure that the bus company will find a loophole if they don't want to follow the "rules".
Think of all the rich people using tax loopholes so more money stays in their pockets.

 

[bringiton]

I honesty dont get as to why Skylink Derby & Leicester is still a Kinchbus serivice. Considering that route uses TB branding, TB flags, the use of the Derby bus depot at times etc. It feels like a Trent Barton service with Kinchbus uniforms.

I'd say kinchbus would require the earnings off skylink to fund its less profiting routes like kinch 2. I have noticed inside most of the skylinks i've been on they have a bus graphic with the tb logo on. Better to have the route with kinch too, 16 busses pvr, if that was at derby depot space would be limited as well as more pressure on maintenance especially with such a high demand route (plus means resources aren't pulled off derby routes to fill skylink)

 

[liamf656]

Because it's in the complete wrong branding for the routes Sutton operates and it allows it be be used across the board - such as on 90 where it's better suited and needed.

Not sure this answers the question as to why the "excuse my appearance" branding exists. Does the average passenger really care if the bus is the wrong colour? NCT seem to lead the way with their rules on branding. They will do anything to keep a service running

Do you know the cause of these fires recently?
I know that drivers are often told to ignore warning signs on buses and carry on driving until they fully break down - something similar/?

I can't say for certain what caused this recent fire with the My15 but I believe it may be electrical. The second comment you make about drivers being told to ignore warning signs is a bold statement without any evidence to back it up

I honesty dont get as to why Skylink Derby & Leicester is still a Kinchbus serivice. Considering that route uses TB branding, TB flags, the use of the Derby bus depot at times etc. It feels like a Trent Barton service with Kinchbus uniforms.

Kinchbus is an established brand in Loughborough compared to Trent (who historically werent liked by the people of Loughborough). Same reason East Yorkshire and Bluestar aren't just called "Go Ahead". I guess it's also cheaper to keep the service as a Kinchbus route as its operated and managed by Loughborough, even if it uses Trent facilities.

 

[MCR247]

I honesty dont get as to why Skylink Derby & Leicester is still a Kinchbus serivice. Considering that route uses TB branding, TB flags, the use of the Derby bus depot at times etc. It feels like a Trent Barton service with Kinchbus uniforms.

But what’s the alternative and is it better? Running the whole route out of Derby depot at one end of the route rather than the one placed conveniently towards the middle? Or running it as a TB route out of Loughborough but then using Kinchbus branded spares which would surely be worse/more confusing that the current situation? Yes TB passengers would win from being able to use zigzag, but would Loughborough pax lose out? (I don’t know if there is a kinchbus only all day ticket tbf). Given the average passenger won’t really care about the fact the route sometimes uses Derby Bus Depot.

Having said all of that, the one thing you didn’t mention is that Skylink Derby appears on the TB website, and although the map image on the routes page does say “operated by Kincubus,” I do personally think it should go a bit further to avoid any zigzag confusion. But I don’t know how many zigzags they sell these days with mango and contactless etc

 

[busspotter1]

Not sure this answers the question as to why the "excuse my appearance" branding exists. Does the average passenger really care if the bus is the wrong colour? NCT seem to lead the way with their rules on branding. They will do anything to keep a service running

I can't say for certain what caused this recent fire with the My15 but I believe it may be electrical. The second comment you make about drivers being told to ignore warning signs is a bold statement without any evidence to back it up

Kinchbus is an established brand in Loughborough compared to Trent (who historically werent liked by the people of Loughborough). Same reason East Yorkshire and Bluestar aren't just called "Go Ahead". I guess it's also cheaper to keep the service as a Kinchbus route as its operated and managed by Loughborough, even if it uses Trent facilities.

An investigation was published in 2023 by the DVSA and can be found here:

Investigation into bus fires reported to DVSA from 2020 to 2022

www.gov.uk

"

1. DVSA found evidence of drivers continuing to drive the vehicle when warning systems advise the vehicle should be stopped, and of drivers being given incorrect advice by depots to continue driving.

"

Furthermore, my friend works for Firstbus and he basically gets told by management to drive vehicles which shouldn't really be on the road. And if he refuses, he gets penalised.

 

[Andyh82]

An investigation was published in 2023 by the DVSA and can be found here:

Investigation into bus fires reported to DVSA from 2020 to 2022

www.gov.uk

"

1. DVSA found evidence of drivers continuing to drive the vehicle when warning systems advise the vehicle should be stopped, and of drivers being given incorrect advice by depots to continue driving.

"

Furthermore, my friend works for Firstbus and he basically gets told by management to drive vehicles which shouldn't really be on the road. And if he refuses, he gets penalised.

There is no mention of Trent Barton in that report

 

[busspotter1]

There is no mention of Trent Barton in that report

My original comment did not say "...drivers at TB...".
It's a comment about the industry in general and wondered whether it is linked.
Next time you're on an older bus, have a look in the cab as you're getting off and see if you can spot any lights which shouldn't be illuminated.

Also, no driver would publicly admit it anyway since they have families to provide for, and they would 100% be sacked for it.

 

[bringiton]

Next time you're on an older bus, have a look in the cab as you're getting off and see if you can spot any lights which shouldn't be illuminated.

I've seen this quite a lot, engine warning lights or brake lights usually (and maybe another but I cant remember what), rarely see it with trents vehicles though, mainly on arriva

 

[joieman]

Given that the bulk of Kinchbus's fleet is set to be replaced in the not-too-distant future, I wouldn't be surprised if a rebranding exercise is on the cards.

 

[YX73OUB]

Not sure this answers the question as to why the "excuse my appearance" branding exists. Does the average passenger really care if the bus is the wrong colour? NCT seem to lead the way with their rules on branding. They will do anything to keep a service running

I can't say for certain what caused this recent fire with the My15 but I believe it may be electrical. The second comment you make about drivers being told to ignore warning signs is a bold statement without any evidence to back it up

Kinchbus is an established brand in Loughborough compared to Trent (who historically werent liked by the people of Loughborough). Same reason East Yorkshire and Bluestar aren't just called "Go Ahead". I guess it's also cheaper to keep the service as a Kinchbus route as its operated and managed by Loughborough, even if it uses Trent facilities.

Liam,

That is the answer to the question though. Also you'd be surprised by how many customers pick up on the branding on a daily basis. I understand what you're saying about NCT but this is referring to trentbarton.

 

[Hyebone]

Do Kinchbus have paper timetables and if so, is there anywhere in Loughborough where they would be stocked?

I’m on Kinchbus’ 715 on the 9 currently, there’s a stack of timetables just by the driver.

 

[SSmith2009]

But what’s the alternative and is it better? Running the whole route out of Derby depot at one end of the route rather than the one placed conveniently towards the middle? Or running it as a TB route out of Loughborough but then using Kinchbus branded spares which would surely be worse/more confusing that the current situation? Yes TB passengers would win from being able to use zigzag, but would Loughborough pax lose out? (I don’t know if there is a kinchbus only all day ticket tbf). Given the average passenger won’t really care about the fact the route sometimes uses Derby Bus Depot.

Having said all of that, the one thing you didn’t mention is that Skylink Derby appears on the TB website, and although the map image on the routes page does say “operated by Kincubus,” I do personally think it should go a bit further to avoid any zigzag confusion. But I don’t know how many zigzags they sell these days with mango and contactless etc

I like it how Kinchbus mention the Skylink Notts & Express on their website then trentbarton mention Skylink Derby-Leicester on their website, Cross promotion across websites helps passengers with information and sseeing services in their destination area.

 

[markymark2000]

I like it how Kinchbus mention the Skylink Notts & Express on their website then trentbarton mention Skylink Derby-Leicester on their website, Cross promotion across websites helps passengers with information and sseeing services in their destination area.

Amazing that they can cross promote eachothers offerings but refuse to work together to create a decently priced ticket to work between these operators.

 

[AdamSergent]

I like it how Kinchbus mention the Skylink Notts & Express on their website then trentbarton mention Skylink Derby-Leicester on their website, Cross promotion across websites helps passengers with information and sseeing services in their destination

But what’s the alternative and is it better? Running the whole route out of Derby depot at one end of the route rather than the one placed conveniently towards the middle? Or running it as a TB route out of Loughborough but then using Kinchbus branded spares which would surely be worse/more confusing that the current situation? Yes TB passengers would win from being able to use zigzag, but would Loughborough pax lose out? (I don’t know if there is a kinchbus only all day ticket tbf). Given the average passenger won’t really care about the fact the route sometimes uses Derby Bus Depot.

Having said all of that, the one thing you didn’t mention is that Skylink Derby appears on the TB website, and although the map image on the routes page does say “operated by Kincubus,” I do personally think it should go a bit further to avoid any zigzag confusion. But I don’t know how many zigzags they sell these days with mango and contactless etc

Personally, I would split the Skylink at EMA. Skylink Derby could do a mickleover style loop around Donnington/EMA/EMG with TB operating this. Then you can have a Skylink Leicester which at the airport can loop via Pegasus>EMA>DHL then straight to EMG.

Im not a fan of the current ‘Skylink Derby’ name as 1) the marketing is too biased on Derby (I live in Leicester) and 2) It sometimes causes confusion for those who dont use the bus often.

If I want to travel between Leicester and Derby for instance, I would take the train, even with the £2 bus fare.

 

[MCR247]

I like it how Kinchbus mention the Skylink Notts & Express on their website then trentbarton mention Skylink Derby-Leicester on their website, Cross promotion across websites helps passengers with information and sseeing services in their destination area.

I like it in theory, but I think it does have the potential for confusion

Personally, I would split the Skylink at EMA. Skylink Derby could do a mickleover style loop around Donnington/EMA/EMG with TB operating this. Then you can have a Skylink Leicester which at the airport can loop via Pegasus>EMA>DHL then straight to EMG.

Im not a fan of the current ‘Skylink Derby’ name as 1) the marketing is too biased on Derby (I live in Leicester) and 2) It sometimes causes confusion for those who dont use the bus often.

If I want to travel between Leicester and Derby for instance, I would take the train, even with the £2 bus fare.

Sorry but that would serve no point and just have buses running loops around the airport for no apparent reason. You feel left out of the marketing?

 

[joieman]

Personally, I would split the Skylink at EMA. Skylink Derby could do a mickleover style loop around Donnington/EMA/EMG with TB operating this. Then you can have a Skylink Leicester which at the airport can loop via Pegasus>EMA>DHL then straight to EMG.

Im not a fan of the current ‘Skylink Derby’ name as 1) the marketing is too biased on Derby (I live in Leicester) and 2) It sometimes causes confusion for those who dont use the bus often.

If I want to travel between Leicester and Derby for instance, I would take the train, even with the £2 bus fare.

The Skylink Derby has also been referred to as the Skylink Leicester-Derby, but that's rather a mouthful. Personally, I think it might be wise to assign numbers to the different Skylink services (eg. Skylink 1 for the Skylink Derby).
However, splitting the Skylink Derby at East Midlands Airport would inconvenience people travelling between Loughborough and Derby. Perhaps alternating services could run via the A50 instead of Shardlow, though.

 

[AdamSergent]

I like it in theory, but I think it does have the potential for confusion


Sorry but that would serve no point and just have buses running loops around the airport for no apparent reason. You feel left out of the marketing?

The loop would allow for faster journeys to/from EMG for those that work there.

Regarding the marketing, remember the complaints TB received when they left Derby out of the i4 branding many years ago. “I am the new bus for Nottingham”. People felt Derby was left off the branding hence they ended up including this later.

The Skylink Derby has also been referred to as the Skylink Leicester-Derby, but that's rather a mouthful. Personally, I think it might be wise to assign numbers to the different Skylink services (eg. Skylink 1 for the Skylink Derby).
However, splitting the Skylink Derby at East Midlands Airport would inconvenience people travelling between Loughborough and Derby. Perhaps alternating services could run via the A50 instead of Shardlow, though.

Simple, just change buses at EMA. Kinch/TB would earn more money. Us Leicester folk dont have a direct local bus to Nottingham for instance.

The Skylink Derby has also been referred to as the Skylink Leicester-Derby, but that's rather a mouthful. Personally, I think it might be wise to assign numbers to the different Skylink services (eg. Skylink 1 for the Skylink Derby).
However, splitting the Skylink Derby at East Midlands Airport would inconvenience people travelling between Loughborough and Derby. Perhaps alternating services could run via the A50 instead of Shardlow, though.

I get its a mouthful and it was used in the past. I think numbers would help whether thats 1,2,3,X or even 319,320 or 787 for instance.

 

[Robertj21a]

Personally, I would split the Skylink at EMA. Skylink Derby could do a mickleover style loop around Donnington/EMA/EMG with TB operating this. Then you can have a Skylink Leicester which at the airport can loop via Pegasus>EMA>DHL then straight to EMG.

Im not a fan of the current ‘Skylink Derby’ name as 1) the marketing is too biased on Derby (I live in Leicester) and 2) It sometimes causes confusion for those who dont use the bus often.

If I want to travel between Leicester and Derby for instance, I would take the train, even with the £2 bus fare.

Few people would want that. The Skylink takes significant passengers between various points all along the route. There's no need to split the route.

 

[TR673]

The Skylink Derby has also been referred to as the Skylink Leicester-Derby, but that's rather a mouthful. Personally, I think it might be wise to assign numbers to the different Skylink services (eg. Skylink 1 for the Skylink Derby).
However, splitting the Skylink Derby at East Midlands Airport would inconvenience people travelling between Loughborough and Derby. Perhaps alternating services could run via the A50 instead of Shardlow, though.

To differentiate between the three Skylinks I tend to refer to the colour of the buses; yellow Skylink; blue Skylink; grey Skylink.

Considering other Trent Barton routes have had colour differentiation before (e.g. Hucknall Connect) it's not inconceivable Skylink 'Derby' and 'Nottingham' could be changed to Skylink 'Yellow' and 'Blue'. Telling someone to "catch Skylink Yellow towards Derby" sounds pretty intuitive to me, if the bus is bright yellow, says Skylink on the side and Derby on the front.

The only small hiccup would be when red or yellow Mango spare buses appeared (or a normal Kinchbus liveried one which is both blue and yellow), but most of the fleet now have full-colour route number displays anyway that could show a blue or yellow dot, and for buses which only have an orange blind they could show YEL or BLU instead

 

[Mugby]

Amazing that they can cross promote eachothers offerings but refuse to work together to create a decently priced ticket to work between these operators.

That's how they make their money - by making people pay twice. There must be plenty of people who change buses at the Airport but what do they hear:

"Sorry, that ticket isn't valid on this service, it's a different company"

Yes, it may be a different company but it's still Wellglade - with a common ticketing system!

 

[joieman]

Simple, just change buses at EMA. Kinch/TB would earn more money. Us Leicester folk dont have a direct local bus to Nottingham for instance.

Leicester and Loughborough aren't exactly comparable. Leicester has the shopping centres and everything that Nottingham has, so people from Leicester don't really need to travel to Nottingham, for instance. Not so with Loughborough (in danger of losing its own indoor shopping centre, which is turning into a ghost town). It would be rather an inconvenience for passengers in places in between Loughborough and Derby.

It is worth noting that the section of the Skylink between Loughborough and Leicester was introduced last.

If I were to split the Skylink, I'd split it at Derby, with an express service running up the A6 between Leicester and Loughborough as present, then running down Ashby Road to pass Loughborough University, then running up the M1 straight to the Airport, then passing through Pegasus Business Park and terminating at East Midlands Gateway. (It could potentially then continue to Derby via the A50, A6, Wyvern Park and Pride Park.)

But on the whole, I think it's quite fine the way it is, and the most immediate change that needs to happen is to simply increase the capacity of the service, either through a frequency increase or larger buses.

 

[EnviroExplorer]

All this talk about changing the Kinchbus Skylink, just why? It’s quite clear it’s been a success story in its current form. Introducing different variations of routing would just add complexity and confusion for passengers.

 

[station_road]

If I were to split the Skylink, I'd split it at Derby, with an express service running up the A6 between Leicester and Loughborough as present, then running down Ashby Road to pass Loughborough University, then running up the M1 straight to the Airport, then passing through Pegasus Business Park and terminating at East Midlands Gateway. (It could potentially then continue to Derby via the A50, A6, Wyvern Park and Pride Park.)

Perhaps you don't remember the Pegasus service in the late 90s that ran hourly between Derby and Leicester using the motorway - one of the reasons it didn't work was because of the unpredictability of traffic on the M1 which occasionally caused massive delays. Lesson learned from that is to avoid using the M1 completely.

Link to a photo of a Pegasus bus in 1998, credit to Tony Wilson on Flickr

 

[Hyebone]

in danger of losing its own indoor shopping centre

Is it bad that I didn’t even know Loughborough had one!?

 

[AdamSergent]

Leicester and Loughborough aren't exactly comparable. Leicester has the shopping centres and everything that Nottingham has, so people from Leicester don't really need to travel to Nottingham, for instance. Not so with Loughborough (in danger of losing its own indoor shopping centre, which is turning into a ghost town). It would be rather an inconvenience for passengers in places in between Loughborough and Derby.

It is worth noting that the section of the Skylink between Loughborough and Leicester was introduced last.

If I were to split the Skylink, I'd split it at Derby, with an express service running up the A6 between Leicester and Loughborough as present, then running down Ashby Road to pass Loughborough University, then running up the M1 straight to the Airport, then passing through Pegasus Business Park and terminating at East Midlands Gateway. (It could potentially then continue to Derby via the A50, A6, Wyvern Park and Pride Park.)

But on the whole, I think it's quite fine the way it is, and the most immediate change that needs to happen is to simply increase the capacity of the service, either through a frequency increase or larger buses.

I think Loughborough University tend to put on minibuses between there and EMA from what I remember a few years ago.

 

[AdamSergent]

That's how they make their money - by making people pay twice. There must be plenty of people who change buses at the Airport but what do they hear:

"Sorry, that ticket isn't valid on this service, it's a different company"

Yes, it may be a different company but it's still Wellglade - with a common ticketing system!

To differentiate between the three Skylinks I tend to refer to the colour of the buses; yellow Skylink; blue Skylink; grey Skylink.

Considering other Trent Barton routes have had colour differentiation before (e.g. Hucknall Connect) it's not inconceivable Skylink 'Derby' and 'Nottingham' could be changed to Skylink 'Yellow' and 'Blue'. Telling someone to "catch Skylink Yellow towards Derby" sounds pretty intuitive to me, if the bus is bright yellow, says Skylink on the side and Derby on the front.

The only small hiccup would be when red or yellow Mango spare buses appeared (or a normal Kinchbus liveried one which is both blue and yellow), but most of the fleet now have full-colour route number displays anyway that could show a blue or yellow dot, and for buses which only have an orange blind they could show YEL or BLU instead

I fully agree on the use of ‘Skylink Yellow/Blue/Grey’ with the circles. Notts & Derby used those names during Download on their timetable.

 

[Trainman40083]

Perhaps you don't remember the Pegasus service in the late 90s that ran hourly between Derby and Leicester using the motorway - one of the reasons it didn't work was because of the unpredictability of traffic on the M1 which occasionally caused massive delays. Lesson learned from that is to avoid using the M1 completely.

Link to a photo of a Pegasus bus in 1998, credit to Tony Wilson on Flickr

And Pegasus used to run to Bakewell

 

[Andyh82]

The closure of the QMC Island this weekend was causing long delays to the Red Arrow, i4, Indigo etc yesterday

Most Red Arrow services seemed to be diverting via Lenten Boulevard but this was heavilly congested

The journey I caught went via Wollaton which had no extra traffic, so I’m surprised more didn’t go that way. We actually caught up with the previous departure at Victoria Bus Station even though it had left 15 minutes previously

There was a Trent Barton member of staff issuing tickets in the queue in Derby so the coach could leave as quickly as possible, which was good to see

 

[bringiton]

The closure of the QMC Island this weekend was causing long delays to the Red Arrow, i4, Indigo etc yesterday

Most Red Arrow services seemed to be diverting via Lenten Boulevard but this was heavilly congested

The journey I caught went via Wollaton which had no extra traffic, so I’m surprised more didn’t go that way. We actually caught up with the previous departure at Victoria Bus Station even though it had left 15 minutes previously

There was a Trent Barton member of staff issuing tickets in the queue in Derby so the coach could leave as quickly as possible, which was good to see

One of the drivers yesterday was saying how there were 5 of them all in Nottingham all at the same time.

On my trip out of Nottingham I waited about 15 minutes and two came at the same time, pretty much everyone at Victoria center split between the two. The later one went ahead (or atleast tried to) and didn't pick up any passengers while the one behind loaded up. I'd say going down derby Road was the worse part for traffic and I did wonder why they weren't going down uni Blvd. The two coaches did pretty much stay together until after qmc, but arrived into derby the same time.

The added diversion certainly ain't helping with the parliament Street mess that they are currently dealing with. Luckily today seems to be alot better