Welshpool crossing crash (22/06/20)

[Meole]

Person seriously injured as train hits van at level crossing

The driver of the van is seriously injured in the crash, but no-one on the train is hurt.

www.bbc.co.uk

van on a level crossing in mid Wales.

The driver of a black Mercedes was airlifted to hospital after their vehicle was struck by a train heading from Shrewsbury to Welshpool.

They were flown by air ambulance to Royal Stoke University Hospital.

No train passengers were hurt in the crash where the single-track railway crosses a side-road near Trewern, north of Welshpool, just after 13:45 BST.

Train hits a van at an unmanned crossing near Welshpool.

 

[edwin_m]

It's unlikely the train was going too fast, as not only are train drivers very diligent but the ETCS system on this route supervises maximum speed. The speed of the van wouldn't make much difference either - it must have been track, stopped or moving, when it should have been stopped and waiting to cross. The underlying reasons why this happened will no doubt be at the heart of the RAIB investigation.

Interesting that the article mentions CCTV monitoring of what appears to be an occupation crossing - it doesn't look like one of the crossings where CCTV is used to check the track is clear before the train is allowed to approach. Does this suggest the CCTV has been installed due to history of non-compliance by crossing users?

 

[Bertiethebobby]

Doh!
I couldn't see anything about this on here so I just started a thread about 2 minutes ago.

 

[Bertiethebobby]

Interesting point Edwin.
It's certainly not a monitored crossing in the normal sense but it's possible that there is CCTV due to non compliance although I'm wondering if the BBC reporter would be astute enough to pick up on that unless someone locally told them.

It's strange that the driver was seriously injured but the front of the van looks unscathed. I'm speculating (and I know I shouldn't!) that maybe the driver wasn't in the van at the time of the collision. It's not unusual for users to open one gate, drive onto the crossing then open the other gate. We probably won't know for a while, the RAIB sent an investigator so there'll be a report at some time.

Meole, I'm guessing you're being facetious perhaps anticipating what the public will say re train going too fast. As Edwin says, it's not possible to exceed the speed limit on ETCS or you quickly come to a grinding halt.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The crash seems to have been at the user worked crossing just east of the former Buttington Jn, according to this account and location map.
There are 4 level crossings over a bit more than a mile on this stretch, all marked UWC in the NR Sectional Appendix, except the one across the main A458 in Buttington which is AHBC.
Line speed is 120 km/h.

Driver seriously injured as van hit by train at level crossing near Welshpool

A driver has been left seriously injured after the van they were in was hit by a train at a level crossing near Welshpool.

www.shropshirestar.com

 

[Spartacus]

It's strange that the driver was seriously injured but the front of the van looks unscathed. I'm speculating (and I know I shouldn't!) that maybe the driver wasn't in the van at the time of the collision. It's not unusual for users to open one gate, drive onto the crossing then open the other gate. We probably won't know for a while, the RAIB sent an investigator so there'll be a report at some time.

Initial reports suggest you’re spot on, driver didn’t phone the signaller, opened the entry gate, drove onto the crossing, then got out to open the exit gate, at which point the train came.

 

[hwl]

The crash seems to have been at the user worked crossing just east of the former Buttington Jn, according to this account and location map.
There are 4 level crossings over a bit more than a mile on this stretch, all marked UWC in the NR Sectional Appendix, except the one across the main A458 in Buttington which is AHBC.
Line speed is 120 km/h.

Driver seriously injured as van hit by train at level crossing near Welshpool

A driver has been left seriously injured after the van they were in was hit by a train at a level crossing near Welshpool.

www.shropshirestar.com

2 seperate comments in the article from locals about it being a problem crossing as regards users hence the CCTV installation?

 

[hexagon789]

Initial reports suggest you’re spot on, driver didn’t phone the signaller, opened the entry gate, drove onto the crossing, then got out to open the exit gate, at which point the train came.

I'm sure that was essentially what happened in another similar accident a few years ago, but can't remember the crossing name in that one.

To me it seems obvious not to stop on the middle of a railway line, but seemingly not everyone thinks like that?

 

[SlimJim1694]

Similar thing at Teynham (Kent) a couple of years back when a 395 hit a DPD delivery van doing the same thing. I remember watching the forward facing camera footage on a safety day afterwards. Parking on a railway line is a very dangerous thing to do.

 

[Bertiethebobby]

2 seperate comments in the article from locals about it being a problem crossing as regards users hence the CCTV installation?

I'm not sure that the comments are necessarily referring to rail accidents.

One says "there have been quite a few accidents here in the past"

The other one says "I remember hearing a loud bang out here one night and poking my head out of the door to see a head on collision.”

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If this streetview is accurate, there is no sign of CCTV or lights on the crossing.

Google Maps

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www.google.co.uk

 

[Bertiethebobby]

If the train was doing line speed 120kph it would cover 100 metres in 3 seconds or half a kilometre in 15 seconds. You don't want to be dithering about on the line!!

 

[Domh245]

If this streetview is accurate, there is no sign of CCTV or lights on the crossing.

That streetview image is from November 2015 so if it was added since then it won't show it

 

[Bertiethebobby]

If this streetview is accurate, there is no sign of CCTV or lights on the crossing.

Google Maps

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www.google.co.uk

Yes indeed.

I imagine that it will be a fairly simple investigation as all calls to Mach will be recorded.

 

[Llanigraham]

This incident occured, as stated, at the UWC to a kennels, and there have been previous cases of misuse here in the past. Not sure about the CCTV.

 

[Bald Rick]

Initial reports suggest you’re spot on, driver didn’t phone the signaller, opened the entry gate, drove onto the crossing, then got out to open the exit gate, at which point the train came.

If that is the case, then the driver can expect a stay at one of Her Majesty’s hotels.

 

[PHILIPE]

The crossing was known as Lower Cefn and user worked with farm access. There was an accident here back in 2008 when a train I was travelling on clipped the rear end of a lorry and, following this, the driver of the lorry admitted his failure to abide by the instructions and did not contact the signaller for permission. I cannot recall the sentence now but I think it was suspended.
One experience I recall from this was, after a fresh driver had arrived after being brought by Driver Manager by car from Machynlleth, we proceeded to Welshpool but as we were going to get off there stayed in the front coach rather than move back as suggested, was travelling in a 158 vehicle without air bags which was worse than a Pacer on jointed track.
At a guess would have been misuse but speculation won't confirm that so I will await the outcome of the RAIB investigations.

 

[cakefiend]

Interesting point Edwin.
It's certainly not a monitored crossing in the normal sense but it's possible that there is CCTV due to non compliance although I'm wondering if the BBC reporter would be astute enough to pick up on that unless someone locally told them.

That's something NR would be unlikely to confirm, given that criminal proceedings are likely to be live - or soon will be. Likewise, the BBC might omit this detail for the same reason.

 

[6Gman]

Initial reports suggest you’re spot on, driver didn’t phone the signaller, opened the entry gate, drove onto the crossing, then got out to open the exit gate, at which point the train came.

I find that simply extraordinary! I occasionally use a user-worked crossing (with warning lights). I would never, ever, ever, ever even think about stopping in the four-foot.

Open both gates (checking at each stage). Check again. Drive across. Check again. Close both gates (checking at each stage).

Job done.

 

[Bald Rick]

I find that simply extraordinary! I occasionally use a user-worked crossing (with warning lights). I would never, ever, ever, ever even think about stopping in the four-foot.

Open both gates (checking at each stage). Check again. Drive across. Check again. Close both gates (checking at each stage).

Job done.

It happens all over the network, every day.

 

[edwin_m]

The other one says "I remember hearing a loud bang out here one night and poking my head out of the door to see a head on collision.”

Perhaps they bumped their "head on" the doorpost?

If this streetview is accurate, there is no sign of CCTV or lights on the crossing.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.co.uk

As I posted above, I don't believe this is a "CCTV crossing" as such, but an ordinary occupation crossing where a CCTV camera is positioned for monitoring. These cameras are quite inconspicuous and don't have to be accompanied by lights and barriers, as they are not part of the crossing operation. NR sometimes installs cameras in areas with high trespass/vandalism risks, hence my musing about whether it is to monitor compliance.

I find that simply extraordinary! I occasionally use a user-worked crossing (with warning lights). I would never, ever, ever, ever even think about stopping in the four-foot.

Open both gates (checking at each stage). Check again. Drive across. Check again. Close both gates (checking at each stage).

That is the correct procedure but does involve crossing the track four times on foot (and once more in the vehicle). Many people might think driving part way across before opening the far gates was safer, as this would only be 2+1 crossings, or only one crossing if they also stopped after the first gate to close it. Perhaps the driver thought there was enough space between the track and the far gate to put the van there safely, but mis-judged the clearance needed for a passing train (which isn't marked on the ground).

 

[Bertiethebobby]

Perhaps they bumped their "head on" the doorpost?

As I posted above, I don't believe this is a "CCTV crossing" as such, but an ordinary occupation crossing where a CCTV camera is positioned for monitoring. These cameras are quite inconspicuous and don't have to be accompanied by lights and barriers, as they are not part of the crossing operation. NR sometimes installs cameras in areas with high trespass/vandalism risks, hence my musing about whether it is to monitor compliance.

Good point Edwin. I believe that CCTV was installed at Wem when the box was abolished due to the high incidence of mis use and I'm sure I've seen cams mounted on the back of the wig wags at Harlescott xing in Shrewsbury. Both these crossings are of the Tic Tac detection type, not sure of the correct name!

 

[edwin_m]

Good point Edwin. I believe that CCTV was installed at Wem when the box was abolished due to the high incidence of mis use and I'm sure I've seen cams mounted on the back of the wig wags at Harlescott xing in Shrewsbury. Both these crossings are of the Tic Tac detection type, not sure of the correct name!

Manually Controlled Barrier with Obstacle Detection (MCB-OD). Not a good name, as they normally operate automatically.

 

[Undiscovered]

I'm sure I've seen cams mounted on the back of the wig wags at Harlescott xing in Shrewsbury. Both these crossings are of the Tic Tac detection type, not sure of the correct name!

There are cameras at Harlescott, along with prominent signs about stopping anywhere in the box resulting in prosecution, I assume through static object detection and photography, rather than ANPR.

The hatching box extends quite far around the whole crossing, and generally, people do obey, though there was an incident in the past year when a vehicle failed to clear due to traffic, so a bus driver contacted the signaller via the crossing phone.

 

[Nottingham59]

I don't believe this is a "CCTV crossing" as such, but an ordinary occupation crossing

In the Google Streetview image, there are two posts to the right of the crossing. One has a solar panel and a small wind generator. The other has a small retangular block at the top, which I would assume is a CCTV camera angled downwards towards the crossing.

 

[Nottingham59]

the front of the van looks unscathed.

.... which may be true, but there is a massive train-sized dent in the rear side panel of the van. From the BBC pictures, it seems to me likely that the van was heading away from the camera, was struck on the right hand side above the rear wheel, and was spun round 180 degrees by the shock of the impact. Easily enough force to injure anyone inside.

 

[Wyrleybart]

I think the point here s that all of us on the forum are railway minded and recognise the dangers of body and / or vehicle on railway track. I'd venture to suggest that most road users don't, which is why situations like this happen. Obviously Edwin is spot on with the "4+1" buit there isn't a way around it.

I do hope it has CCTV coverage and the happenings are explained by RAIB

 

[edwin_m]

I think the point here s that all of us on the forum are railway minded and recognise the dangers of body and / or vehicle on railway track. I'd venture to suggest that most road users don't, which is why situations like this happen. Obviously Edwin is spot on with the "4+1" buit there isn't a way around it.

I do hope it has CCTV coverage and the happenings are explained by RAIB

At some crossings the driver can press a button on the roadside to open both gates, then press another one beyond the crossing to close them. However these have also caused accidents. The button isn't interlocked with the red/green lights giving warning of a train approach but I suspect drivers would assume that if the button works it's safe to cross.

 

[Nottingham59]

The signage on that crossing is an absolute dog's breakfast. Looking at the images of Powys Dog Training on Google Maps, the warning signs in order of prominence say:
1. STOP
2. STOP - LOOK - LISTEN Beware of trains
3. BOARDING KENNEL OPENING TIMES
4. Caution - CCTV operated by Network Rail
5. 1.Open far gate before crossing with vehicles or animals / 2.Cross quickly / 3.Close and secure gates after use
6. Always telephone before crossing with vehicles or animals to find out if there is time to cross

Yes, there is a telephone, but it is located behind the railway fence, so to a driver unfamiliar with UWCs, it looks like it is for use by railway staff.

I can easily see how a unfamiliar driver would find the instructions 1,2,3 in black and white and follow them to the letter. And this is a crossing to a boarding kennels. They must have dozens of visitors every week who have never been there before and may never have seen a User Worked Crossing.

Google Maps

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www.google.co.uk

 

[Spartacus]

I find that simply extraordinary! I occasionally use a user-worked crossing (with warning lights). I would never, ever, ever, ever even think about stopping in the four-foot.

Open both gates (checking at each stage). Check again. Drive across. Check again. Close both gates (checking at each stage).

Job done.

Sadly it's extraordinarily common, that and people leaving the gates oppen so they can cross without opening and closing them at all.