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Should the Wensleydale Railway extend to Redmire?

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Marmaduke

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I visited the upper Wensleydale area last week Hawes etc and called in at Redmire Station the present western terminus of the Wensleydale Railway.

A question to anyone in the know......Has the Wensleydale Railway any plans for doing something with Redmire?

I think it has a bit of potential. Granted they dont own or occupy the station (shame) but theres a heck of a large car park area with brilliant views across the dale and to Penn hill. I also understand they own the old dairy buildings?

Its a shame that when you get to Redmire theres nothing to stop off for unless you are walking? I think it could do with some form of amenity / cafe facility.

I used to go to the Aysgarth Bank Holiday OPEN DAYS and the team there had it just right with their cafe - Now thats gone, Redmire anyone....?
 
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DB

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Ages since I've been there, but didn't they have a buffet there (static carriage) at one point?
 

Marmaduke

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Ages since I've been there, but didn't they have a buffet there (static carriage) at one point?
Not sure about that? There was a brilliant cafe at Aysgarth which a group used to run who also looked after the site....But Redmire not sure if there was ever a buffet there?
 

paul1609

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Not sure about that? There was a brilliant cafe at Aysgarth which a group used to run who also looked after the site....But Redmire not sure if there was ever a buffet there?
Unfortunately I think on shore heritage railway catering was following the railway shops in to difficult times even before Covid. Consumer tastes have changed and the margins have been squeezed by a double whammy of both supermarket value meals, Costa type cafes and increases in the minimum wage. I think the catering offer you will increasingly find will be some sort of kiosk offering teas coffee cakes with pop up pubs for enthusiast events.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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I got off at Redmire a few years ago and walked into the village, it is not far, there was lovely Pub that did home made food, had an excellent steak pie there with a glass or 2? of wine. I think it was called the Bolton Arms perhaps?
 

paul1609

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I got off at Redmire a few years ago and walked into the village, it is not far, there was lovely Pub that did home made food, had an excellent steak pie there with a glass or 2? of wine. I think it was called the Bolton Arms perhaps?
Yes it is Ive had the steak pie also. I think the Wensleydale have had a mobile catering van in the car park when I've been there before. The footfall on my recent non event days would be hard pushed to support even that I fear.
 

alexl92

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The Bolton Arms was extraordinarily good when I last visited. I think the railway encourage people to visit there rather than having their own catering outlet as footfall wouldn't support both
 

LMS 4F

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I have caught the vintage bus at Redmire and gone from there into Hawes. This was a few years ago and as I recall it had started in Harrogate. I'm not sure when it last ran but it was very well supported when I used it.
 

paul1609

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I have caught the vintage bus at Redmire and gone from there into Hawes. This was a few years ago and as I recall it had started in Harrogate. I'm not sure when it last ran but it was very well supported when I used it.
Think this would have been some years ago. I got the replacement community bus to Hawes as far as Aysgarth from the road by Redmire Station about 5 years ago, there were 3 passengers in early summer
 

STEVIEBOY1

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I have caught the vintage bus at Redmire and gone from there into Hawes. This was a few years ago and as I recall it had started in Harrogate. I'm not sure when it last ran but it was very well supported when I used it.
I caught that bus too from Redmire to Hawes, it was some years ago.
 

DB

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I caught that bus too from Redmire to Hawes, it was some years ago.

I've done that, and there was then another vintage bus which went from Hawes to Garsdale station - I did train to Northallerton, then bus to Leeming Bar, train to Redmire, buses to Garsdale then train back home again. Must have been a decade ago now, I guess.
 

Killingworth

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Priorities, priorities! See the Wensleydale Railway website.

Getting into Northallerton, renovating Leeming Bar, proceeding further up Wensleydale to Askrigg and Hawes, developing Redmire - but at present just keeping what exists in good order and running is challenging enough.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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I've done that, and there was then another vintage bus which went from Hawes to Garsdale station - I did train to Northallerton, then bus to Leeming Bar, train to Redmire, buses to Garsdale then train back home again. Must have been a decade ago now, I guess.
Yes very similar to what I did and thinking about it, I must have done that as well about 10 years ago too. How time flies.
 

DarloRich

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The Bolton Arms was extraordinarily good when I last visited. I think the railway encourage people to visit there rather than having their own catering outlet as footfall wouldn't support both

The Bolton Arms did a helm of a pint of black sheep. Decent menu to
 

quantinghome

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Priorities, priorities! See the Wensleydale Railway website.

Getting into Northallerton, renovating Leeming Bar, proceeding further up Wensleydale to Askrigg and Hawes, developing Redmire - but at present just keeping what exists in good order and running is challenging enough.
Picking up from my comment on another thread, could WR consider reopening the rest of the line as narrow gauge? It would keep reopening and maintenance costs down and probably be just as attractive for tourism, if not more so. If they need to make efficiencies (which it sounds like they do), they could cut the standard gauge line back to Leyburn and have narrow gauge from there into upper Wensleydale.
 

DarloRich

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Picking up from my comment on another thread, could WR consider reopening the rest of the line as narrow gauge? It would keep reopening and maintenance costs down and probably be just as attractive for tourism, if not more so. If they need to make efficiencies (which it sounds like they do), they could cut the standard gauge line back to Leyburn and have narrow gauge from there into upper Wensleydale.


hard to run a through service from Northallerton................
 

quantinghome

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hard to run a through service from Northallerton................
Indeed. But is that a problem?

The community function of WR is largely complete once you've reached Leyburn as the population further west is significantly smaller. As a heritage / tourist railway a change of train doesn't matter too much, in fact it may add to the attraction to have two different experiences on the line. Plus there doesn't seem to much chance of it opening as standard gauge.
 

Pinza-C55

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Picking up from my comment on another thread, could WR consider reopening the rest of the line as narrow gauge? It would keep reopening and maintenance costs down and probably be just as attractive for tourism, if not more so. If they need to make efficiencies (which it sounds like they do), they could cut the standard gauge line back to Leyburn and have narrow gauge from there into upper Wensleydale.

There are a number of obstacles past Redmire and parts of the line are built on, a problem for standard gauge or narrow gauge track. For instance a stone bridge over a stream at Redmire and a 3 span viaduct at Hawes. It would be short sighted to build these to narrow gauge specs and then have to upgrade them and the viaduct alone would cost a prodigious amount of money.
 

quantinghome

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There are a number of obstacles past Redmire and parts of the line are built on, a problem for standard gauge or narrow gauge track. For instance a stone bridge over a stream at Redmire and a 3 span viaduct at Hawes. It would be short sighted to build these to narrow gauge specs and then have to upgrade them and the viaduct alone would cost a prodigious amount of money.
But it's much less of a problem for narrow gauge. As I've said before, the loadings on the structures are much lower, so the structures can be built at lower cost, or if they are still in place they may pass a structural assessment for narrow gauge loadings where they wouldn't for standard gauge. Where the line has been built on, a narrow gauge track can work round it far easier. That's why the WHR was able to be rebuilt at relatively low cost, because it was fairly easy to build diversions to the old route where needed. This is why old standard gauge routes are often reopened as narrow gauge heritage lines.

Clearly if it's rebuilt in narrow gauge this would effectively be accepting it's too expensive to rebuild it to standard gauge. So the issue of having to upgrade to standard gauge later does not arise.
 

DJ_K666

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I got off at Redmire a few years ago and walked into the village, it is not far, there was lovely Pub that did home made food, had an excellent steak pie there with a glass or 2? of wine. I think it was called the Bolton Arms perhaps?
For some reason I read that as a glass or 27...
The best pop up pub I've been in was called The Buxom Wench
 

BayPaul

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But it's much less of a problem for narrow gauge. As I've said before, the loadings on the structures are much lower, so the structures can be built at lower cost, or if they are still in place they may pass a structural assessment for narrow gauge loadings where they wouldn't for standard gauge. Where the line has been built on, a narrow gauge track can work round it far easier. That's why the WHR was able to be rebuilt at relatively low cost, because it was fairly easy to build diversions to the old route where needed. This is why old standard gauge routes are often reopened as narrow gauge heritage lines.

Clearly if it's rebuilt in narrow gauge this would effectively be accepting it's too expensive to rebuild it to standard gauge. So the issue of having to upgrade to standard gauge later does not arise.
It does increase operational cost and complexity though. Even on a quiet day you would need to run and staff two locos and two sets of carriages, whilst other lines can just run a single set over the whole length of the line. I believe that the main depot is at Leeming Bar, so a whole new set of maintenance facilities would be needed to serve the narrow end of the line, as stock would not be able to run through, not to mention a completely new set of rolling stock and maintenance vehicles would be needed. Timetabling would be complex and inefficient, as it is unlikely that the two halves of the line's timetables would match perfectly.
 

DarloRich

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Indeed. But is that a problem?

The community function of WR is largely complete once you've reached Leyburn as the population further west is significantly smaller. As a heritage / tourist railway a change of train doesn't matter too much, in fact it may add to the attraction to have two different experiences on the line. Plus there doesn't seem to much chance of it opening as standard gauge.


it isn't going to happen though is it. @BayPaul above sets out sensible reasons why.
 

WestRiding

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Still happens but it's rare now.
But when it does, Narrow Gauge would be pointless.

Though i quite like idea of a Ravenglass and Eskdale type set up, if it was to the same standard. Standard Gauge should never be replaced with Narrow Gauge though as its a link into the national network.
 

Pinza-C55

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But it's much less of a problem for narrow gauge. As I've said before, the loadings on the structures are much lower, so the structures can be built at lower cost, or if they are still in place they may pass a structural assessment for narrow gauge loadings where they wouldn't for standard gauge. Where the line has been built on, a narrow gauge track can work round it far easier. That's why the WHR was able to be rebuilt at relatively low cost, because it was fairly easy to build diversions to the old route where needed. This is why old standard gauge routes are often reopened as narrow gauge heritage lines.

Clearly if it's rebuilt in narrow gauge this would effectively be accepting it's too expensive to rebuild it to standard gauge. So the issue of having to upgrade to standard gauge later does not arise.

I just had a look at Google Earth and between Hawes and Redmire alone there are 20 missing bridges although about 13 of those still have the abutments intact and were only "cattle creeps" in which the NER as a bridge deck typically laid old rails side ly that saves you a lot of money. But from Garsdale to Redmire is still 21 miles and some of the trackbed is ploughed over. You still need 21 miles of rails and sleepers regardless of gauge
But when it does, Narrow Gauge would be pointless.

Though i quite like idea of a Ravenglass and Eskdale type set up, if it was to the same standard. Standard Gauge should never be replaced with Narrow Gauge though as its a link into the national network.

Same here. I only had one trip on the Haltwhistle - Alston branch in 1976 and I've never been on it as the South Tynedale Railway as NG doesn't appeal to me. I still admire them for what they are doing though.
 

quantinghome

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it isn't going to happen though is it. @BayPaul above sets out sensible reasons why.
Those are good points to be fair. Given the difficulties WR has in keeping the existing show on the road, I think it's unlikely we'll ever see an extension, which is a shame.
 

Killingworth

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Those are good points to be fair. Given the difficulties WR has in keeping the existing show on the road, I think it's unlikely we'll ever see an extension, which is a shame.

Nice though it might be the market isn't currently there for such a sizeable expansion, there probably wouldn't be enough volunteers and there certainly isn't the money. The area is sparsely populated and it wil take time to get any additional track relaid. Better to preserve and improve what's already operating and consolidate. At present survival is hard enough.

The little railways of Wales are tourist attractions together. Maybe NYM and Wensleydale might complement each other in North Yorkshire, but Leeming Bar and Redmire aren't particularly attractive places for starting a journey like Whitby or Pickering.
 

quantinghome

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The little railways of Wales are tourist attractions together. Maybe NYM and Wensleydale might complement each other in North Yorkshire, but Leeming Bar and Redmire aren't particularly attractive places for starting a journey like Whitby or Pickering.
So what you're saying is we need a narrow gauge railway from Garsdale to Eskdale to rival Wales...
 
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