Wensleydale Railway seems on the up?

[Marmaduke]

Got to say, was at Leeming Bar on Saturday for a run out on Tornado. What a coup that they managed to get the loco to the WR.

Extremely good crowd which no doubt will help the coffers and lovely steady journey.

Seems that a few improvements are on the go to smarten Leeming Bar up.

A guy told me that the far end of the platform is going to be widened and it appears lights are going to be installed judging by the concrete posts.

Well done to the guys and gals at the WR, at long last from the outside, non member looking in, there appears to be a fair bit of enthusiasm from the foot soldiers.

Carry on........

 

[Ken H]

They dont seem to be stuck getting a viable station at northallerton, nor do they seem to have any momentum getting west. A short extension to Bolton castle should help. But the one to go for has to be Aysgarth falls.

 

[alexl92]

They dont seem to be stuck getting a viable station at northallerton (1), nor do they seem to have any momentum getting west. A short extension to Bolton castle should help (2). But the one to go for has to be Aysgarth falls.(3)

1) This would cost a huge amount and the connection to Northallerton West, the temporary station, is currently out of use until the level crossing can be upgraded, if I remember correctly

2) I was thinking about this the other day. It doesn’t seem far from Redmire. What I did realise tho was that in order to be viable, they’d either have to create a run-around loop, for which I don’t believe there is space (the original trackbed still exists in a shallow cutting, except it’s grassed over now) or only ever run a DMU there, which could be a challenge given that their only operational one at the moment is the bubble car.

3) Aysgarth station was sold last year. It was owned by the railway and operated as a holiday cottage but the mortgage repayments were a real drain on resources. I believe that the new owner is sympathetic to the line and may be open to a reconnection in th future but again, this would cost a lot.


In the mean time, if they are consolidating and improving what they do have, then they are to be commended.

 

[a_c_skinner]

IIRC the first bridge west of Redmire needs considerable expenditure too.

 

[Richard P]

I visited here last year for the first time on a Sunday in July with lovely weather. The number of passengers was frankly woeful. I picked up the first train of the day admittedly at Redmire but I was the only passenger. I enjoyed the journey to and from Leeming Bar but it was punctuated by one speed restriction after another and whilst I am sure improvements must have been made to allow Tornado on it's tracks at the time I don't remember ever having been on a preserved railway where the line has been in such poor condition.
My perception was "this railway is struggling to survive" so hats off to everyone involved in getting Tornado there and getting big numbers turning out to ride the train, they have been rewarded for their efforts too with lovely weather and long may they prosper.
As for extending the line my answer would be no, if only because I just don't believe there are the passenger numbers to support it. The journey in it's entirety is long enough as it is and I am sure maintaining the line in it's current state is a big enough drain on resources already. If passengers aren't going to turn up at Redmire then they won't turn up at Bolton Castle either, appreciate it's a lovely place to visit but numbers would never in my view be high enough to justify the cost of building the extension to this point.
Northallerton is definitely the destination to aspire to on a permanent basis with it's National Rail connection, I know an issue which frustrates many is getting to the Wensleydale Railway but the largely infrequent local bus services and I'm sure this impacts on visitor numbers.

 

[E759]

Monday to Saturday the 73 Bus runs every 30 minutes from right outside Northallerton station to Leeming Bar station. Fare is £4.55 return. I’ve done the trip twice now from Sussex using train and bus. Tickets for Tornado in May and June go on sale Friday March 1st 11:00.

 

[ThetrackMaster]

I visited here last year for the first time on a Sunday in July with lovely weather. The number of passengers was frankly woeful. I picked up the first train of the day admittedly at Redmire but I was the only passenger. I enjoyed the journey to and from Leeming Bar but it was punctuated by one speed restriction after another and whilst I am sure improvements must have been made to allow Tornado on it's tracks at the time I don't remember ever having been on a preserved railway where the line has been in such poor condition.
My perception was "this railway is struggling to survive" so hats off to everyone involved in getting Tornado there and getting big numbers turning out to ride the train, they have been rewarded for their efforts too with lovely weather and long may they prosper.
As for extending the line my answer would be no, if only because I just don't believe there are the passenger numbers to support it. The journey in it's entirety is long enough as it is and I am sure maintaining the line in it's current state is a big enough drain on resources already. If passengers aren't going to turn up at Redmire then they won't turn up at Bolton Castle either, appreciate it's a lovely place to visit but numbers would never in my view be high enough to justify the cost of building the extension to this point.
Northallerton is definitely the destination to aspire to on a permanent basis with it's National Rail connection, I know an issue which frustrates many is getting to the Wensleydale Railway but the largely infrequent local bus services and I'm sure this impacts on visitor numbers.

I think your perception is broadly correct about the WR. It is a big railway and as all railways of this size, takes a bit of looking after.
I think volunteers are a problem on any HR's up and down the country barring one or two. The more successful ones will tell you the same applies, however they tend to get them easier, perhaps because of where they are located and popularity.
The great thing about the WR is it offers a splendid journey, particularly past Bedale.
I guess the best bit if you were to select a line from scratch would be between Leyburn & Aysgarth Falls station. Aysgarth is no longer in WR ownership, but I understand will, if the present owners plans are as suggested allow for the railway to run beyond Redmire.
As an overview, I think the WR would not be far away with being a moderately successful railway if it can attract at least one Steam loco service and more frequency of service, particularly on a weekend.
I think that perhaps there is a plan in place for many things, but at the end of the day, it all boils down to availability of monies to re-invest.
Certainly those volunteers already engaged are a committed, talented and friendly bunch, so Id really like to see the WR succeed.
I understand that there are further plans for steam and an S160 is going to be based there for several months in the near future, plus of course Tornado's revisits and the return of the NELPG loco that was there last year. So all bodes well I hope and certainly attract the public who enjoy and want steam travel.
Time of course will tell.
I hope you will find the time for a revisit at some point?

 

[2392]

Whilst some of the latest remarks about Wensleydale maybe quite true at the moment. Bear in mind the major league outfits like the North Yorkshire Moors, Severn Valley, that are equally long lines started off in the same boat back in the late sixties early seventies. They took quite a few years to build the brand, to what they are today.........

I see that Wensleydales' biggest problem at present for quite a large line is cross platform access from the mainline in their case at Northallerton. The NYMR have a connection at Grosmont from platform 1 on the Esk Valley [ok the service from Middlebrough isn't great....] The Severn Valley at Kidderminster have their station in the old goods yard and is a short walk to the mainline counter part. Time will tell if/when they get their connection up and running at Northallerton......

 

[Paul Hitchcock]

Whilst some of the latest remarks about Wensleydale maybe quite true at the moment. Bear in mind the major league outfits like the North Yorkshire Moors, Severn Valley, that are equally long lines started off in the same boat back in the late sixties early seventies. They took quite a few years to build the brand, to what they are today.........

I see that Wensleydales' biggest problem at present for quite a large line is cross platform access from the mainline in their case at Northallerton. The NYMR have a connection at Grosmont from platform 1 on the Esk Valley [ok the service from Middlebrough isn't great....] The Severn Valley at Kidderminster have their station in the old goods yard and is a short walk to the mainline counter part. Time will tell if/when they get their connection up and running at Northallerton......

Mainline connections are an enthusiasts obsession. The bulk of the business does not come from enthusiasts.

 

[ThetrackMaster]

Whilst some of the latest remarks about Wensleydale maybe quite true at the moment. Bear in mind the major league outfits like the North Yorkshire Moors, Severn Valley, that are equally long lines started off in the same boat back in the late sixties early seventies. They took quite a few years to build the brand, to what they are today.........

I see that Wensleydales' biggest problem at present for quite a large line is cross platform access from the mainline in their case at Northallerton. The NYMR have a connection at Grosmont from platform 1 on the Esk Valley [ok the service from Middlebrough isn't great....] The Severn Valley at Kidderminster have their station in the old goods yard and is a short walk to the mainline counter part. Time will tell if/when they get their connection up and running at Northallerton......

No, don't quite agree with your comments entirely.
I think the major league players, NYMR, Severn Valley, Bluebell, were in at the right time, when there was a lot of enthusiasm and availability of scenic lines coming on market with at least the main aspect of infrastructure still intact.
Nowadays those early players have in the main been well supported and established, so much so that when others have landed, invariably, in the case of the WR, in the back yard of the NYMR, perhaps there's over saturation?
The WR provides a scenic ride at a very reasonable value, with the problem that theres not a lot of steam offerings around, time table is basic and rolling stock is a tad run down.
You touch on branding and I think you're right. Wensleydale is an area known for cheese (Apologies to Wallace & Grommitt) , being in the Yorkshire Dales, but perhaps the public fail to appreciate that it starts near Northallerton?
I think any railway needs to consider its offerings and play to its strengths.
Northallerton West as its called, the station established by the WR NEAR NORTHALLERTON, but not anyway in, doesn't have good access. The WR doesn't usually send any trains as far as I can make out eastwards from Leeming Bar as there isn't any real call for use?
Quite rightly it concentrates its efforts on west wards. hopefully when they get some S&T sorted, perhaps we can look forward to more than one train being operated on the branch as this would undoubtably be welcomed by the public??

 

[2392]

Mainline connections are an enthusiasts obsession. The bulk of the business does not come from enthusiasts.

So, what do you suggest then to make Wensleydale more accessible to the non-enthusiast public? Tear out the connection at Northallerton rip up the rails between there and Leyburn/Leeming Bar? The Bluebell had an increase in visitors when they re-instated their line from Horstead Keyne to East Grinstead.... Yes most visitors are non-enthusiasts and pick up the bulk of the bill for Heritage Lines up and down the land.

As things stand I think/believe that the Wensleydale Railway are negotiating with Network Rail to come to some sort of arrangements for access to Northallerton station. But it's all very low key long term. Also bear in mind unlike the NYMR's cross platform connection at Grosmont which is on a lightly used branch line. Northallerton is an intermediate station between York and Darlington on a major mainline between London and Edinburgh [the East Coast Mainline], Ok not all Intercity services call, but a substantial number of lesser services do, like Cross Country and Trans Pennine. You can change trains at either Darlington if your heading South or York if heading North on a "non stopping" service.

 

[Worf]

I think the Northallerton link is pretty irrelevant as far as the vast majority of tourists are concerned who use their cars to holiday and visit attractions, and are the main ones that actually buy tickets.. The cost of a proper interchange station there would be prohibitive. The line east of Leeming Bar has to be maintained to comply with the terms of the lease, whilst consuming a lot of resources, when the only income for that bit is from the occasional railtour. Unfortunately they are saddled with this cost before they even start earning money elsewhere. "Visiting enthusiasts" travelling by bus may sound great, but are pretty thin on the ground. Local buses are struggling through lack of passengers.

In a perfect world, it is the other end of the line that would have been an earner from day one. Leyburn to Redmire to start with, extended as they became established to Aysgarth would have been ideal. Unfortunately, it is not a perfect world and the WR are saddled with rising costs of track replacement, level crossings, storage facilities, vandalism etc etc on a bit of line that is rarely used and has little in the way of scenic merit.

Visiting steam engines will help swell the coffers on some days, but unfortunately, without a large injection of cash and a clear ambition for the future, they will continue to struggle. Volunteers love "pioneering". The success of many heritage railways has been ( think Ffestiniog, WHR, Llangollen, SVR and many more) this striving towards a common goal, extending the lines as and when the resources and manpower were available. This has helped establish a solid volunteer base and the expertise necessary to build a "profitable" business. "Profit" might be seen as a dirty word to some people, but without it, no organisation can survive.

 

[Paul Hitchcock]

So, what do you suggest then to make Wensleydale more accessible to the non-enthusiast public? Tear out the connection at Northallerton rip up the rails between there and Leyburn/Leeming Bar? The Bluebell had an increase in visitors when they re-instated their line from Horstead Keyne to East Grinstead.... Yes most visitors are non-enthusiasts and pick up the bulk of the bill for Heritage Lines up and down the land.

As things stand I think/believe that the Wensleydale Railway are negotiating with Network Rail to come to some sort of arrangements for access to Northallerton station. But it's all very low key long term. Also bear in mind unlike the NYMR's cross platform connection at Grosmont which is on a lightly used branch line. Northallerton is an intermediate station between York and Darlington on a major mainline between London and Edinburgh [the East Coast Mainline], Ok not all Intercity services call, but a substantial number of lesser services do, like Cross Country and Trans Pennine. You can change trains at either Darlington if your heading South or York if heading North on a "non stopping" service.

I am afraid you are under the misapprehension that "normals" necessarily think the same way as enthusiasts. Thus it is an assumption that they will prefer access by rail transport or demand longer routes to travel on' Cost plays a part

I think the Northallerton link is pretty irrelevant as far as the vast majority of tourists are concerned who use their cars to holiday and visit attractions, and are the main ones that actually buy tickets.. The cost of a proper interchange station there would be prohibitive. The line east of Leeming Bar has to be maintained to comply with the terms of the lease, whilst consuming a lot of resources, when the only income for that bit is from the occasional railtour. Unfortunately they are saddled with this cost before they even start earning money elsewhere. "Visiting enthusiasts" travelling by bus may sound great, but are pretty thin on the ground. Local buses are struggling through lack of passengers.

In a perfect world, it is the other end of the line that would have been an earner from day one. Leyburn to Redmire to start with, extended as they became established to Aysgarth would have been ideal. Unfortunately, it is not a perfect world and the WR are saddled with rising costs of track replacement, level crossings, storage facilities, vandalism etc etc on a bit of line that is rarely used and has little in the way of scenic merit.

Visiting steam engines will help swell the coffers on some days, but unfortunately, without a large injection of cash and a clear ambition for the future, they will continue to struggle. Volunteers love "pioneering". The success of many heritage railways has been ( think Ffestiniog, WHR, Llangollen, SVR and many more) this striving towards a common goal, extending the lines as and when the resources and manpower were available. This has helped establish a solid volunteer base and the expertise necessary to build a "profitable" business. "Profit" might be seen as a dirty word to some people, but without it, no organisation can survive.

Your comments seem very sensible to me although lack of familiarity with the North-East makes things a bit difficult for this southerner to assess.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This has helped establish a solid volunteer base and the expertise necessary to build a "profitable" business. "Profit" might be seen as a dirty word to some people, but without it, no organisation can survive.

This isn't entirely true. They need to make a surplus so they can reinvest it - they do not necessarily need to make a profit (i.e. for shareholders) as people who buy shares in preserved railways tend not to do so for financial gain.

Our Scout Group needs to make a slight surplus on "operations" in order to fund equipment and building maintenance. However, it doesn't make a profit - nothing goes into anyone's pockets, nor does the bank balance increase over time.

 

[theblackwatch]

So, what do you suggest then to make Wensleydale more accessible to the non-enthusiast public? Tear out the connection at Northallerton rip up the rails between there and Leyburn/Leeming Bar? The Bluebell had an increase in visitors when they re-instated their line from Horstead Keyne to East Grinstead.... Yes most visitors are non-enthusiasts and pick up the bulk of the bill for Heritage Lines up and down the land.

As things stand I think/believe that the Wensleydale Railway are negotiating with Network Rail to come to some sort of arrangements for access to Northallerton station. But it's all very low key long term. Also bear in mind unlike the NYMR's cross platform connection at Grosmont which is on a lightly used branch line. Northallerton is an intermediate station between York and Darlington on a major mainline between London and Edinburgh [the East Coast Mainline], Ok not all Intercity services call, but a substantial number of lesser services do, like Cross Country and Trans Pennine. You can change trains at either Darlington if your heading South or York if heading North on a "non stopping" service.

So what % of NYMR visitors would you estimate arrive by train? I would think it is quite low.

The Wensleydale Railway has been operating for over 15 years now, but is, unfortunately, still struggling to find its feet and appears to run on a wing and a prayer. The NYMR started operating in 1973, but by 1989 it wasn't having to rely on a loco towing a couple of DMU cars because one of its two operational DMU power cars needed a spring change. This isn't intended as a criticism of the Wensleydale - it is a statement of fact. I believe a lot of the problems go back to the early days and the 99 year lease that was signed, with people in charge who, rather naively in my view, thought they could run it as a community railway with trains 364 days a year.

Hopefully Tornado's visit will have swelled the coffers and hopefully given the line a good amount of publicity.

 

[Worf]

This isn't entirely true. They need to make a surplus so they can reinvest it - they do not necessarily need to make a profit (i.e. for shareholders) as people who buy shares in preserved railways tend not to do so for financial gain.

Exactly - hence why I said "profit", not profit

 

[Malcmal]

So what % of NYMR visitors would you estimate arrive by train? I would think it is quite low.

The Wensleydale Railway has been operating for over 15 years now, but is, unfortunately, still struggling to find its feet and appears to run on a wing and a prayer. The NYMR started operating in 1973, but by 1989 it wasn't having to rely on a loco towing a couple of DMU cars because one of its two operational DMU power cars needed a spring change. This isn't intended as a criticism of the Wensleydale - it is a statement of fact. I believe a lot of the problems go back to the early days and the 99 year lease that was signed, with people in charge who, rather naively in my view, thought they could run it as a community railway with trains 364 days a year.

Hopefully Tornado's visit will have swelled the coffers and hopefully given the line a good amount of publicity.

This is comparing apples and sausages in my opinion. Also the NYMR is a really unusual exception in other ways and I would imagine quite a few people arrive by train from Whitby - however the trains are run by the NYMR themselves over the national network. You also cannot compare Grosmont (Network Rail) and Northallerton stations in terms of practical rail access for tourists in any way at all!! 2.5 hours (quick guess) from London KX to Northallerton by rail and then another 2.5 hours from Northallerton to Grosmont by rail

 

[ThetrackMaster]

This isn't entirely true. They need to make a surplus so they can reinvest it - they do not necessarily need to make a profit (i.e. for shareholders) as people who buy shares in preserved railways tend not to do so for financial gain.

Our Scout Group needs to make a slight surplus on "operations" in order to fund equipment and building maintenance. However, it doesn't make a profit - nothing goes into anyone's pockets, nor does the bank balance increase over time.

Sorry -but any business owner or accountant will tell you that PROFIT is extremely important as eventually this turns into real CASH.

For any organisation to survive it needs to make an operating surplus (profit) - Profit = Sales less cost of sales. If a business constantly looses money, ie. cost of sales EXCEEDS sales revenue, eventually a business if it continues will run our of cash.

CASH is king in some many ways - Apologies for the business lesson - Comes from 40 years in business!!

 

[ThetrackMaster]

So what % of NYMR visitors would you estimate arrive by train? I would think it is quite low.

The Wensleydale Railway has been operating for over 15 years now, but is, unfortunately, still struggling to find its feet and appears to run on a wing and a prayer. The NYMR started operating in 1973, but by 1989 it wasn't having to rely on a loco towing a couple of DMU cars because one of its two operational DMU power cars needed a spring change. This isn't intended as a criticism of the Wensleydale - it is a statement of fact. I believe a lot of the problems go back to the early days and the 99 year lease that was signed, with people in charge who, rather naively in my view, thought they could run it as a community railway with trains 364 days a year.

Hopefully Tornado's visit will have swelled the coffers and hopefully given the line a good amount of publicity.

Yep agree, but would ask the following question of those responding to this thread.

Theres no doubt at the WR that steam arrived because a shed was built. That allowed the NELPG and the Tornado Group to sanction their locos to the WR along with presumably a commitment to the P-Way quality?

Will steam be a big future for the WR? Is it something that is going to be regular?

Steam usually is a large cost to a railway, however its also a draw for the public.

Its about a balance these days, a compromise on costs.

Surely there must be some steam loco owners out there who are not getting a look in as far as running is concerned at other sites who'd welcome some deal with a place like the WR to run their locos but not pass on the heavy duty costs to the railway as usually happens with steam locos?

I believe the WR has this Flexi arrangement with diesel owners - Any steam owners game?

 

[theblackwatch]

This is comparing apples and sausages in my opinion. Also the NYMR is a really unusual exception in other ways and I would imagine quite a few people arrive by train from Whitby - however the trains are run by the NYMR themselves over the national network. You also cannot compare Grosmont (Network Rail) and Northallerton stations in terms of practical rail access for tourists in any way at all!! 2.5 hours (quick guess) from London KX to Northallerton by rail and then another 2.5 hours from Northallerton to Grosmont by rail

Which proves my point that you don't need a main line connection with easy access from here, there and everywhere to be successful (or a motorway on your doorstep - literally!).

 

[Malcmal]

Which proves my point that you don't need a main line connection with easy access from here, there and everywhere to be successful (or a motorway on your doorstep - literally!).

I agree with you. But if you have the East Coast Main Line at the bottom of your garden PLUS regularly served station then why not ab(use) the resource to it's full?

 

[Ploughman]

There are other reasons for having a mainline connection.
The Wensleydale does still have potential Military traffic and I think A train ran recently or is due.

For the NYMR, Loco moves between various railways around the country occur throughout the year.
The connection at Grosmont is also made use of for the Autoballaster delivering ballast to renewal sites on the NYMR and has also enabled rail delivery of new bridges.

For many railways around the country the use of Mainline On Track Plant, such as Tampers, is only possible due to the presence of the mainline connections.

 

[Ken H]

Wensleydale is chocker with visitors on may days. Haws is heaving, the creamery is busy. And Aysgarth falls do OK, as does brymoor ice cream.
but the railway doesnt go to any attraction. so you go from Leyburn to Redmire. then what? go back again.

The Keighley and Worth valley line goes to Haworth, so there is an established tourist honeypot ready and waiting.

 

[Richard P]

Connection to the national rail network can be nothing but beneficial when it comes to passengers and additional use - Ploughman you are correct, a military train rain from Redmire a fortnight or so ago. Having stayed in Hawes when I went from Redmire I agree it and other localities are very busy but the cost of extending the line anywhere west of Redmire would surely be prohibitive in the current climate? I'd argue to gain significant additional numbers the bare minimum location is Asygarth and probably Hawes itself but the investment to reach there is simply not viable. Roads in the locality are not great either, okay they're not single track roads but they are generally slow progress - I reckon it took me 45 minutes to get to Redmire from Hawes and it's hardly on the "beaten track". You've got to want to go there and let's be honest besides the station it's just another Yorkshire village, albeit with a better than average hostelry. It seems to me the WR needs to consolidate, concentrate on improving what it's got, in particular the condition of it's passenger coaches and getting that link sorted at Northallerton

 

[Marmaduke]

Connection to the national rail network can be nothing but beneficial when it comes to passengers and additional use - Ploughman you are correct, a military train rain from Redmire a fortnight or so ago. Having stayed in Hawes when I went from Redmire I agree it and other localities are very busy but the cost of extending the line anywhere west of Redmire would surely be prohibitive in the current climate? I'd argue to gain significant additional numbers the bare minimum location is Asygarth and probably Hawes itself but the investment to reach there is simply not viable. Roads in the locality are not great either, okay they're not single track roads but they are generally slow progress - I reckon it took me 45 minutes to get to Redmire from Hawes and it's hardly on the "beaten track". You've got to want to go there and let's be honest besides the station it's just another Yorkshire village, albeit with a better than average hostelry. It seems to me the WR needs to consolidate, concentrate on improving what it's got, in particular the condition of it's passenger coaches and getting that link sorted at Northallerton

I think you make a few fair points, however, picking up on the Aysgarth angle. Mr Smith of WCRC I understand now owns Aysgarth Station.
According to recent Council meetings, not only does he wish to develop the Aysgarth site back into what it was, but is also looking to secure and relay the P-Way back to the proposed station at Castle Bolton.
I don't know what time scales this represents, but the word on the street is that its not a dream and discussions are taking place behind the scene with all parties to enable this to happen.
So....if this were to happen, then that would get the line from Aysgarth within touching distance of Redmire .....1000 yards??.
There's the question of Apedale Beck bridge to replace immediately west of the head shunt at Redmire.
But if and its a big IF this actually occurred how would this all come together for Mr Smith and the WR?
I can understand the driver behind the WR's wish to get to the honeypot that is Aysgarth (Shame it wasn't possible when they owned the site....however?), but to be fair, what would be in it for Mr Smith? Why would he wish to put in 2.5miles of track, presumably at some great expense, to benefit the WR?
Perhaps and only perhaps, it could be a destination for rail tours arranged by WCRC along the WR?
As has been mentioned previously in the thread, big isn't always beautiful. Another three or so miles to look after, would put even more strain on the WR.
So whilst in "fairy dust" land it would be really great to get to Aysgarth for the WR, in reality, even getting across Apedale Beck to a halt at Castle Bolton could be "one bridge too far" for them?
Yes consolidate, forget about anything west of Redmire, let some one else fund and operate it if they want to. Leave the WR to get their house in order and make something of what they've got?

 

[Ken H]

I think you make a few fair points, however, picking up on the Aysgarth angle. Mr Smith of WCRC I understand now owns Aysgarth Station.
According to recent Council meetings, not only does he wish to develop the Aysgarth site back into what it was, but is also looking to secure and relay the P-Way back to the proposed station at Castle Bolton.
I don't know what time scales this represents, but the word on the street is that its not a dream and discussions are taking place behind the scene with all parties to enable this to happen.
So....if this were to happen, then that would get the line from Aysgarth within touching distance of Redmire .....1000 yards??.
There's the question of Apedale Beck bridge to replace immediately west of the head shunt at Redmire.
But if and its a big IF this actually occurred how would this all come together for Mr Smith and the WR?
I can understand the driver behind the WR's wish to get to the honeypot that is Aysgarth (Shame it wasn't possible when they owned the site....however?), but to be fair, what would be in it for Mr Smith? Why would he wish to put in 2.5miles of track, presumably at some great expense, to benefit the WR?
Perhaps and only perhaps, it could be a destination for rail tours arranged by WCRC along the WR?
As has been mentioned previously in the thread, big isn't always beautiful. Another three or so miles to look after, would put even more strain on the WR.
So whilst in "fairy dust" land it would be really great to get to Aysgarth for the WR, in reality, even getting across Apedale Beck to a halt at Castle Bolton could be "one bridge too far" for them?
Yes consolidate, forget about anything west of Redmire, let some one else fund and operate it if they want to. Leave the WR to get their house in order and make something of what they've got?

Maybe Mr smith will own the track, pay for maintenance, and will charge the WR or other operators to use it, a sort of mini network rail. And he will also benefit from more visitors to his attraction. Maybe appease the planners if he can say he will encourage visitors to park at Leyburn and get the train to Aysgarth

 

[Brush 4]

There is a Carnforth - Redmire working on April 6 with 45690, which may be a clue as to Mr Smiths interest in the line and for Aysgarth station. Time will tell.

 

[nanstallon]

The WR project started with the idea that the whole line should be restored as a genuine public transport facility from Northallerton across to Hawes and Garsdale, to link up with the Settle and Carlisle. A great idea, but let's remember that this line closed to passengers in the 1950s, long before the Beeching report, and so it should have been obvious that this was unlikely to succeed as a public transport project. That fact has dawned on the operators, who now run a pleasant run through the countryside. I wish them well, but it is a crowded market and the WR is a late player on the field. Well done though for securing steam locos on loan - the J27 last year looked superb and authentic.

 

[Worf]

I see that Smith has now got planning permission for cafe etc at Aysgarth station, and has an application in for relaying track on his premises and on trackbed on the Hawes side of Aysgarth Station (not the Redmire direction) which is currently owned by the National Park, including "train rides". See ref R/55/79 at http://www.yorkshiredales.org.uk/living-and-working/planning/planning-applications

So, is that now two Wensleydale Railways? (albeit one very short one)

 

[alexl92]

I’ve asked this before I think but who owns Hawes station and what would happen to the loco and stock there if there was an attempt to reconnect Hawes?