Were/are suburban services on the SR Central section conisdered the "Cinderella" of the SR?

[bramling]

The Bournemouth rolling stock, and the later CIGs, were frequently lambasted at the time as being inferior to new stock elsewhere, and "better than steam" is an astonishingly low bar if you're trying to suggest these trains were still suitable for use in the 21st century.

Must admit I find this analysis to be on the negative side.

Whilst there had been some sliding door designs by the 1970s, there were still plenty of slam-door fleets plying their trade all round the country, and even still being built - HSTs, loco-hauled Mk3s and 312s spring to mind.

For most SR users, their rolling stock was “that’s how it is”, and a generation of commuters used them. For the longer distance services, the south central only really got a taste of something else when the 319s appeared, and for the south eastern they had to wait until the late 1990s when they got the 16x 365s.

Whilst something like an Electrostar is undoubtedly better appointed than a CIG, I’m not sure a 319 in original form offered that much of an improvement.

The slam doors weren’t a massive issue in those days, people were used to them and the whole system was set up for them. It’s fascinating to watch footage from the time, people closing the doors after themselves was completely engrained, not like the final days of slam-door HSTs in Cornwall which was painful in that respect.

And of course the first class compartments were positively luxurious, the only thing which took the gloss away was vandalism.

 

[Timmyd]

As a relative newbie, i find all the passive aggressive debate on this thread a bit perplexing. I’m just a long-standing south London commuter, never worked on the railway. What I can tell you is that in the late 90s and early 00s, even with the appalling condition Connex had allowed its trains to get into, I’d always time my journey to be on a VEP/VOP-operated service rather than a 455/456/319. Now you could argue that this isn’t a like with like comparison, because the units weren’t built for inner-suburban workings, but all the same, if they were that awful, the newer trains would have been better and more popular. They weren’t - the old trains were comfortable, warm, bright,, the new ones are perhaps the latter but none of the other things. Everyone knew what to do with the doors. You can accept they‘d probably had their day while still acknowledging they were perfectly decent and effective trains. Luckily for us in the southeast, Electrostars are also very good and comfortable, so its not like the change from, say, HSTs to IETs

 

[bramling]

As a relative newbie, i find all the passive aggressive debate on this thread a bit perplexing. I’m just a long-standing south London commuter, never worked on the railway. What I can tell you is that in the late 90s and early 00s, even with the appalling condition Connex had allowed its trains to get into, I’d always time my journey to be on a VEP/VOP-operated service rather than a 455/456/319. Now you could argue that this isn’t a like with like comparison, because the units weren’t built for inner-suburban workings, but all the same, if they were that awful, the newer trains would have been better and more popular. They weren’t - the old trains were comfortable, warm, bright,, the new ones are perhaps the latter but none of the other things. Everyone knew what to do with the doors. You can accept they‘d probably had their day while still acknowledging they were perfectly decent and effective trains. Luckily for us in the southeast, Electrostars are also very good and comfortable, so its not like the change from, say, HSTs to IETs

Yes the Mk1 to Electrostar change is certainly an example of where things genuinely got better. EPB to Networker I suppose as well, albeit the Networkers haven’t been looked after and are in a state nowadays.

Are the new GA EMUs better than what came before? I’m not sure the answer to that is yes. The IETs definitely aren’t an improvement on Mk4s.

 

[nlogax]

Are the new GA EMUs better than what came before? I’m not sure the answer to that is yes. The IETs definitely aren’t an improvement on Mk4s.

This is all pretty subjective stuff, surely. Personally I find Stadler kit on GA is hugely impressive and knocks the squeaky and ponderous 90s / Mk3s into a cocked hat, and I know people people whom far prefer the IETs over their LHCS predecessors.

I agree that Electrostars were a huge step up at the time. To my mind they're also hugely comfortable, the one huge plus-point from the outgoing Mk1 stock that most people would agree on.

 

[yorksrob]

This is all pretty subjective stuff, surely. Personally I find Stadler kit on GA is hugely impressive and knocks the squeaky and ponderous 90s / Mk3s into a cocked hat, and I know people people whom far prefer the IETs over their LHCS predecessors.

I agree that Electrostars were a huge step up at the time. To my mind they're also hugely comfortable, the one huge plus-point from the outgoing Mk1 stock that most people would agree on.

I think the Eloctrostars on the South Eastern main line (with a mainline interior) are a very decent train and worthy replacements for the mk 1's.

I've not tried the Stadlers on Greater Anglia yet, but a 1st class Mk 3 will be a very tough act to follow IMO.