Were railways better before passengers were referred to as "customers"?

[ScottGallagher]

I remember a time around 2001 when Connex were forced to drop the word customer (SE side I think) as some passengers were so incensed by it due to the poor level of the service. I could have read it it in a rail mag but it definitely came from the MD or similar effectively saying after feedback from x date we no longer use the word.

Customers usually have a choice where they shop, passengers often dont.

 

[43096]

So with forty years of 'recognising that the person has bought a service', we now have an efficient caring railway that satisfies the market that feeds it. I think not; - whilst it doesn't really matter whether the users of railways are called customer or passenger, the change to customer was just a cynical token born out of some business psychology culture in the Thatcher push for monetising everything.

It says more about the railway industry and the entrenched poor attitudes within it than anything else.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Can we compromise on 'Riders'?

(I hope not!)

I hope we can, or rather I hope we can continue to enjoy the richness of language. I should feel honoured if I found myself talking to an Ambassador.

 

[32475]

Exactly so LSWR Cavalier. When I found myself speaking to the Caledonian Sleeper Ambassador on the phone, I imagined a fellow in a call centre sat at an office desk in full ceremonial white uniform with a sword at his side and a pith helmet adorned with white feathers, a row of medal ribbons and a splendid moustache. I’m sure you get the picture!

 

[AM9]

It says more about the railway industry and the entrenched poor attitudes within it than anything else.

... and the assumption by the '80s government that a pathetic change in a word describing their target market would fix that endemic poor culture.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I correctly use 'fuel station'. I shop at a 'food store', not a 'supermarket', there is nothing super about it.

If you don't mind me asking, what is your country of origin? I never heard anyone use those terms who was from the UK - they sound like mild Americanisms to me? Not that that's a problem, but I just wondered.

A supermarket is called that not because it's good but because it's larger than a market which is larger than a mini-market (and a hypermarket is bigger than all of them).

I suspect garage comes from the days when fuel would be sold from the same place that sold and repaired vehicles - unless of course you call that a "repair station" or something! ("Service station" doesn't refer to servicing vehicles, but rather the provision of services to drivers and passengers such as toilets and food).

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

@Bletchleyite
I am as British/Welsh, English in that order as most on here. I always have a thesaurus to hand. Perhaps 'monstermarket', or 'megamarket' or even Large Cool Store (Philip Larkin)?

 

[Bletchleyite]

@Bletchleyite
I am as British/Welsh, English in that order as most on here. I always have a thesaurus to hand. Perhaps 'monstermarket', or 'megamarket' or even Large Cool Store (Philip Larkin)?

Fair enough. FWIW it's "store" that I found particularly Americanised - "food shop" would sound more UK-English but that to me implies a small corner shop rather than a big one.

 

[Western Lord]

If you don't mind me asking, what is your country of origin? I never heard anyone use those terms who was from the UK - they sound like mild Americanisms to me? Not that that's a problem, but I just wondered.

A supermarket is called that not because it's good but because it's larger than a market which is larger than a mini-market (and a hypermarket is bigger than all of them).

I suspect garage comes from the days when fuel would be sold from the same place that sold and repaired vehicles - unless of course you call that a "repair station" or something! ("Service station" doesn't refer to servicing vehicles, but rather the provision of services to drivers and passengers such as toilets and food).

Surely a service station was a garage that offered servicing of vehicles. Until the motorway era, with the creation of the motorway service area, you would be hard pressed to find many garages that had toilets or sold food, that was the preserve of the transport cafe.

 

[Dr Hoo]

So with forty years of 'recognising that the person has bought a service', we now have an efficient caring railway that satisfies the market that feeds it. I think not; - whilst it doesn't really matter whether the users of railways are called customer or passenger, the change to customer was just a cynical token born out of some business psychology culture in the Thatcher push for monetising everything.

I really don't see Jim O'Brien and Robert Reid at BR in that mindset when they started using the term in 1983.

I also recall suggesting to the Chief Booking Clerk at a station that I managed that using the term "some punter..." about every passenger/customer with whom he had had an interaction wasn't quite the ideal approach.

But at least the number of 'people using the railway' had more than doubled since those dark days.

 

[Journeyman]

I really don't see Jim O'Brien and Robert Reid at BR in that mindset when they started using the term in 1983.

I also recall suggesting to the Chief Booking Clerk at a station that I managed that using the term "some punter..." about every passenger/customer with whom he had had an interaction wasn't quite the ideal approach.

But at least the number of 'people using the railway' had more than doubled since those dark days.

Yeah, the change of terminology from passenger to customer was actually about a positive culture change, and a lot of people here seem to have forgotten just how bad BR could be when things went wrong. They had no duty of care towards people whatsoever in the past, and passengers were frequently treated with contempt. Things are much better now.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yeah, the change of terminology from passenger to customer was actually about a positive culture change, and a lot of people here seem to have forgotten just how bad BR could be when things went wrong. They had no duty of care towards people whatsoever in the past, and passengers were frequently treated with contempt. Things are much better now.

Debatable. There are still far too many "bad eggs" and there is a complete unwillingness to deal with them, for example:

1. Ticket office staff that are too lazy to do the things their job requires of them. Merseyrail seems to have a lot of these.
2. Ill-informed staff who penalise passengers for travelling on perfectly valid tickets.
3. Staff giving permission to travel when they don't have the authority, and other staff not respecting that permission as an internal disciplinary issue.
4. Staff using "Coach K" of Avanti services as a messroom.
5. Staff refusing to accept ticket acceptance even when it has properly been put in place.
6. TOCs using the likes of TIL to deal with irregularities despite it being well known that their handling of these is atrocious.

Etc.

I'm not denying that many things have improved on the railway since say the early 90s - they have, but they should have done given the massive subsidy increase in real terms. However to suggest that there has been that positive culture change across the whole railway is just false - there's plenty of contempt for passengers, both at the level of a noticeable minority of frontline staff and institutionally, still there.

 

[xotGD]

Exactly so LSWR Cavalier. When I found myself speaking to the Caledonian Sleeper Ambassador on the phone, I imagined a fellow in a call centre sat at an office desk in full ceremonial white uniform with a sword at his side and a pith helmet adorned with white feathers, a row of medal ribbons and a splendid moustache. I’m sure you get the picture!

More likely it is somebody sat there tucking in to a big box of Ferrero Rocher.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

This punter maintains that the words one uses are important, one has read about racist and sexist language but there are are many other fields where one may say a lot with a few words, the many different terms for servicepersons and for customers are good examples, or the many words for friends. I like 'chums' or 'pals', are they appropriate? Not so sure what is the best word for co-worker, any suggestions?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I think customers is nicer, and reflects that as a fare paying customer/passenger we expect decent service. Sadly, good customer service from railway staff seems a rarity these days - just look at the Euston scrum or Great Western’s revenue protection - so the change might be considered somewhat ironic

Passengers sounds a bit retro. Perhaps save that one for heritage railways, along with carriages. (I prefer coaches)

 

[Bletchleyite]

This punter maintains that the words one uses are important, one has read about racist and sexist language but there are are many other fields where one may say a lot with a few words, the many different terms for servicepersons and for customers are good examples, or the many words for friends. I like 'chums' or 'pals', are they appropriate? Not so sure what is the best word for co-worker, any suggestions?

Co-worker is a bit of an Americanism - colleague is the typical UK English word.

 

[vlad]

Co-worker is a bit of an Americanism - colleague is the typical UK English word.

From what I've seen, "colleague" means "someone who works here". Supermarkets have put up signs saying "For the safety of colleagues, please keep over 2 metres away..." or else there's a sign on the back door saying "Colleagues' entrance".

They aren't referring to any of my colleagues with this.

 

[Bletchleyite]

From what I've seen, "colleague" means "someone who works here". Supermarkets have put up signs saying "For the safety of colleagues, please keep over 2 metres away..." or else there's a sign on the back door saying "Colleagues' entrance".

They aren't referring to any of my colleagues with this.

"My colleague" means "someone I work with". Asda do seem to have corrupted it, I don't entirely get why as there is nothing wrong with "staff".

 

[Ashley Hill]

Colleague sounds too "nice and PC" . My TOC bandies the word around like its going out of fashion as if we're all equal happily working together as one with smiles on our faces.I agree that it means somebody I work with as an equal but not somebody I'm in charge of,they're "my staff".

 

[47360]

I don't care who bought the ticket where, when or for how much, not important, doesn't matter

However, once a person is on a platform waiting for a train to enable them to a safe passage from one location to another by rail then they are and always will be passengers.

 

[43096]

"My colleague" means "someone I work with". Asda do seem to have corrupted it, I don't entirely get why as there is nothing wrong with "staff".

Sainsbury’s too. I have seen a sign for customers saying “If you can’t find what you’re looking for, please ask a colleague.” How the people I work with know where things would be located in Sainsbury’s, I don’t know. Or maybe it’s just corporate BS: why not just use “staff” or if they have to be all fluffy, “our team”.

 

[xotGD]

Presumably a lot of business travellers are not classed as customers since their employer has paid for the tickets?

Same applies when they eat in a restaurant on expenses.

 

[43096]

Presumably a lot of business travellers are not classed as customers since their employer has paid for the tickets?

Same applies when they eat in a restaurant on expenses.

They are still customers as they are their employer’s representative.

 

[Aictos]

I found the East Coast and LNER branding guidelines recently and I'm sure the East Coast one explained the OP's question as following:

A person who buys a ticket is a customer up to the moment they actually board the train at which point they become a passenger up to when they get off the train where they then revert to being a customer.

That's the official company policy at the time of East Coast.

 

[AM9]

They are still customers as they are their employer’s representative.

But everybody on the train is either an employee or a passenger, whether they purchased a ticket, somebody else paid for their ticket or they are travelling without a ticket, (even illegally).

 

[PHILIPE]

Many public bodies such as the NHS and Local Government dish out silly job titles

 

[vlad]

It's not just public bodies.

I used to work at Subway - my job title was Sandwich Artist (TM). The fact I had a trademarked job title notwithstanding, I can't say I was artistic in any way!

 

[Aictos]

Just to confirm my earlier post, I've had a look at the design guidelines for East Coast (The company who took over from National Express) and it clearly states and I quote:

"Customers or passengers? It’s simple to avoid confusion about this. Someone is a customer until they are about to board the train when they become a passenger. ‘Passengers about to join the train should beware of slippery platforms’. After a passenger leaves the train, they become a customer again."

That's the exact wording used in the guidelines.

 

[Inversnecky]

Sainsbury’s too. I have seen a sign for customers saying “If you can’t find what you’re looking for, please ask a colleague.” How the people I work with know where things would be located in Sainsbury’s, I don’t know. Or maybe it’s just corporate BS: why not just use “staff” or if they have to be all fluffy, “our team”.

No doubt to make bottom of the ladder ‘employees’ feel more valued by the company.

Think there's a tendency to try to use titles to compensate for lack of decent wages/hours/conditions.

 

[43096]

Think there's a tendency to try to use titles to compentsate for lack of decent wages/hours/conditions.

"Train Presentation Team" being a good example. "Cleaners" by any other name.