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Werrington grade separation updates

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Aictos

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Well this signalling diagram from 1959 at Walton suggests that at that time there was 7 lines > https://www.signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=1036

Now I'm not old enough to remember any resignalling but I would hazard a safe guess that the Down/Up Goods got lifted and the Up Coal became the Up Slow as they used in the 70s and beyond the Down Stamford as the Down Slow as far as Helpston.

Now I might be wrong but that is my own simple view of what happened.
 
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edwin_m

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Well this signalling diagram from 1959 at Walton suggests that at that time there was 7 lines > https://www.signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=1036

Now I'm not old enough to remember any resignalling but I would hazard a safe guess that the Down/Up Goods got lifted and the Up Coal became the Up Slow as they used in the 70s and beyond the Down Stamford as the Down Slow as far as Helpston.

Now I might be wrong but that is my own simple view of what happened.
The westernmost of the ex-LNER lines is the Down Main - there is no Down Slow or Down Goods on that side. The Stamford lines (ex-LMS) are shown on the top of the diagram but controlled by a different box. However the diagram for Werrington shows a Down Slow starting there and continuing northwards.
https://www.signalbox.org/diagrams.php?id=716
Unfortunately I can't find any diagram for either company for either closer to Peterborough or Helpston where the Down Slow now separates from the Down Stamford. But the below page for Helpston does mention modifications in 1971, which were enough to justify replacing the levers with a panel.
https://signalbox.org/gallery/e/helpston.php
Some local resignalling took place in 1971 and the frame was removed and replaced by a panel. The box ceased to be a block post on 29th June 1975 and assumed its present role of "crossing keeper".
The 1975 date would be when the Peterborough re-signaling reached Helpston. So possibly Peterborough itself was re-signaled in 1971, abolishing the Down Slow, with alterations at the same time at Helpston to create a new connection from the Down Stamford?
 

edwin_m

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I believe these photos are just north of the Marholm Road crossing, probably taken at the crossing, the houses look like Mead Close which is about 50m north of Marholm Road. You can see there were at least four tracks at that time.
https://www.peterboroughimages.co.uk/9f-freight-through-walton-1964/
https://www.peterboroughimages.co.uk/steam-at-walton-1964/
However the 1968 diagram of Werrington and the 1959 one of Walton, both linked above, show five tracks between Werrington and Walton (ignoring the Stamford lines) but the westernmost one is the Down Main - there is no Down Slow here. The second link shows signals which are almost certainly Walton's number 9, 14 and 19 and confirm the directions of travel. The Walton diagram shows the furthest two tracks as interlaced (or at least very close) over the crossing, which might look like just four tracks at the low camera angle used.
 

Meerkat

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Fascinating stuff. So there must be room for re-quadrupling, which side is missing?
But is there a need - superficially it would seem better to separate the ECML and XC operationally to free them from timetable constraints, and if we want to get more container trains through......??
 

hwl

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Fascinating stuff. So there must be room for re-quadrupling, which side is missing?
But is there a need - superficially it would seem better to separate the ECML and XC operationally to free them from timetable constraints, and if we want to get more container trains through......??
Many container trains disappear off to the left or right as it were and will be more segregated in the future on to the Stamford lines if doing as a result of these works thus reducing the need for 4 tracking.
 

59CosG95

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Fascinating stuff. So there must be room for re-quadrupling, which side is missing?
But is there a need - superficially it would seem better to separate the ECML and XC operationally to free them from timetable constraints, and if we want to get more container trains through......??
There's no need to completely separate the lines in a "2 and 4" configuration, certainly not for the foreseeable future.

If the dedicated Down Slow was ever reinstated, it would probably be a changeover of the new Down Stamford to dedicated ECML traffic. The new hypothetical Down Stamford would run where the Up Stamford has been realigned to, and the Up Stamford would, until Helpston, be parallel with the Down Fast, whereupon another diveunder/flyover would be needed to allow Stamford line traffic to cross the 'Down Slow' without let or hindrance.
The area around Helpston & Maxey would need major remodelling as a result.

TL;DR: no need.
 

swt_passenger

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Fascinating stuff. So there must be room for re-quadrupling, which side is missing?
But is there a need - superficially it would seem better to separate the ECML and XC operationally to free them from timetable constraints, and if we want to get more container trains through......??
Not sure what you’re getting at here. Surely the new west side platforms built only a few years ago were put there specifically to separate XC services from the ECML? Then the whole point of the Werrington dive under is to allow more container trains through?
 

Meerkat

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Many container trains disappear off to the left or right as it were and will be more segregated in the future on to the Stamford lines if doing as a result of these works thus reducing the need for 4 tracking.
Does much/anything use the ECML slow lines through Peterborough, which would currently have to use a path on the down Stamford then conflict with the up Stamford as it goes back to the ECML? I guess most slow stuff from the south terminates at Peterborough or is diesel freight and has to go via Spalding?
 

edwin_m

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Does much/anything use the ECML slow lines through Peterborough, which would currently have to use a path on the down Stamford then conflict with the up Stamford as it goes back to the ECML? I guess most slow stuff from the south terminates at Peterborough or is diesel freight and has to go via Spalding?
The lines to/from Stamford carry one passenger and maybe a couple of freights maximum each hour in each direction. The diveunder will allow virtually all the freight to/from the north via the ECML to run via Spalding instead. Nearly all these trains continue via Ely, using the continuations of the Stamford lines that pass through platforms 7 and 8 then under the ECML south of the station, so can go right through the Peterborough area without touching the Fast lines.

The EMR Norwich-Nottingham train is probably the main user of the Slow lines that continues on the ECML via Grantham, although sometimes it uses the Fast if there's nothing faster coming up behind. Northbound this doesn't cause major conflicts - with the fairly low frequencies the flat crossing at Helpston is unlikely to be a problem. However southbound it needs to cross both Fast lines just north of the station to get over to the west side and continue towards Ely. It would have been nice if the diveunder had included a connecting track from the ECML Up Slow so these services could have used it, but it would have increased the work at the cost quite a lot.
 

D365

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It would have been nice if the diveunder had included a connecting track from the ECML Up Slow so these services could have used it, but it would have increased the work at the cost quite a lot.

This was my thought also, but not worth the expense for a service that is 1tph at best.
 

Class 170101

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This was my thought also, but not worth the expense for a service that is 1tph at best.

There is still some freight via the ECML and even with Werrington upgrade I can't see operators relinguishing their rights to run via the ECML.
 

Crun

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A YouTube video of traffic on the ECML and the release of the possession of a Stamford line to enable safe activity in the area of the Werrington Junction dive under. Video by werrington junction.

 

Rick1984

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How will they construct the dive-under under the ECML without closing it for ages?
 

swt_passenger

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How will they construct the dive-under under the ECML without closing it for ages?
They’ll apparently build a curved concrete box east of the position and jack it under the ECML, during a 9 day blockade. Supposed to happen late this year.

Edit: from a recent post in the fares section Sep 5th to 13th seems probable.

I think ECML diversions via the existing Werrington Jn will still be possible during the blockade.

(Earlier discussion in this thread occurred about post #134...)
 
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Crun

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Annotated YouTube video of work on the Werrington Junction grade separation from 29th February 2020 showing progress on the work to restructure various water courses. Video by werrington junction:

 
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Crun

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Please find below a thumbnail of another previously unseen aerial photograph taken about the beginning of October 2019.

Top is Hurn Road with the start of the dive under to the right. In the centre is the start of the road bed going down for the Stamford lines, left of that is a new pond for water retention and left of that is the new drain. Bottom centre is the start of the under-bridge to access the wide-way:

ECML_OVERHEAD_IMG_2886a_jpg_d69633f28f75533d7359c9819b03b098.jpg
 
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