West Coast Partnership: Awarded to First Trenitalia

[youngac]

More stops being added at Motherwell is great news for the people of Lanarkshire.

 

[The Prisoner]

Clicked on the dft’s page - the only improvement shown for most stations is super voyagers being replaced. Possibly the most meh franchise announcement ever.

Timing seems weird given the stagecoach legal challenge. Will probably all end up being overturned anyway.

 

[ainsworth74]

My first guess is that the bi-modes are going to be short (~5-car), and the EMUs will be full-length (9-car+).

But unless you do some very funky diagramming then you're probably going to end up with a lot more 5-car running on the WCML proper as I'm not sure ten sets will be sufficient to run around doubled up after you factor in all the extra services into and around Wales!

 

[Retorus]

Said improved catering though and thought first has been reduced several times already

I worry what they mean when they say ‘improved’.

 

[DarloRich]

"New comfortable seats" are touted which I hope is in the spirit of the Northern refurb with the current, adequate, and already-comfortable ones reupholstered.

whereas i hope they take the current seats in the Pendolino, rip out the seats, throw them in the bin and replace them with seats that have been designed with actual humans in mind.

The dog that didn't bark! Suggests recognition that delivery of HS2 might be running a few years later than originally envisaged?

perhaps things are still in discussion and any announcement is being held for a convenient time. Why do posters here always see a conspiracy?

Hopefully this means some decent Italian cuisine in First Class

more worried about what benefit us in scum class receive. Here is a hint: nowt.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Remember that there might be 20 Voyagers but they spend a lot of time coupled up on the WCML proper. so I'd lay money on the 13 bimode Voyager replacements to be full length trains rather than 5-car trains as they are currently which when added to the 10 EMUs for Liverpool starts to sound more reasonable.

The Voyager fleet is split roughly 10 for Chester/North Wales/Blackpool, and another 10 for London-Birmingham-Scotland (also including Shrewsbury).
They do double up regularly on both routes, but there are no 10 cars west of Chester/Wolverhampton, bar one off-peak Holyhead service.
Scotland can go all-electric, starting with the extra 390 availability that Virgin were planning to get out of the fleet after refurbishment.
I think the 13 bi-modes are for off-wire services, and will be 5-car but capable of doubling up - so 13 plays 10, allowing more services west of Chester.
The new EMUs might be 7-8 car (might be 26m vehicles) to fit in places like Liverpool South Parkway, and also work part of the Scotland route.
First already has an option on more/longer 397s, nominally for TPE Scotland services...

 

[StaffsWCML]

the buffet is completely rubbish!



whereas i hope they take the current seats in the Pendolino, rip out the seats, throw them in the bin and replace them with seats that have been designed with actual humans in mind.

If they are as comfortable as the seats across the First Group empire and covered in detritus like most of their bus seats it should be a joy to behold.

Is there actually a modern train in the UK that has comfortable seats? I presume the uncomfortable nature is a health and safety thing to ensure you don't die by becoming too comfortable.

 

[hwl]

The FAQs make reference to working with HS2 Ltd though not strictly referring to delivering HS2.

That was always the plan

 

[Wolfie]

Good. More space for plebs like me

I get that seating is subjective. To me (with spinal issues) IC70 seats are dire, the Pendo seats are fine and god forbid that they retro fit 800-style seats.

 

[Along the bay]

Yes but the service route map just shows a connection from Gobowen northwards via Wrexham.
I can't see WCP stopping at Chirk/Ruabon, any more than they do at Shotton/Abergele.

Yet Deganwy has made an appearance on the route map.

 

[Lanley]

I get that seating is subjective. To me (with spinal issues) IC70 seats are dire, the Pendo seats are fine and god forbid that they retro fit 800-style seats.

I have to agree - I've always found the Cl390 seats to be very comfortable. Hopefully they see sense!

 

[PR1Berske]

Clicked on the dft’s page - the only improvement shown for most stations is super voyagers being replaced. Possibly the most meh franchise announcement ever.

Timing seems weird given the stagecoach legal challenge. Will probably all end up being overturned anyway.

It can't be easy. Too radical a change and nobody believes it; more of the same and nobody sees the point.

The legal challenge could turn everything on its head, you're right.

 

[rich.davies]

Nice to see Wrexham CENTRAL getting new trains......!

http://maps.dft.gov.uk/west-coast/

Will have to be a short train for there.
Strange that Gobowen will have a service to London. Why would it not start from Wrexham?

 

[whhistle]

FAQs here
https://www.westcoastrail.co.uk/faq.html

So I guess the brand colours are navy blue (black?) and orange?
Brand name "West Coast Rail" ?

Hmm.

 

[dk1]

Will have to be a short train for there.
Strange that Gobowen will have a service to London. Why would it not start from Wrexham?

According to the map Gobowen services are an extension of the Wrexham & will go via Crewe.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

I think the interesting bits are Walsall and Gobowen.

Walsall has platforms that are how long? I think some people might have it right that the new trains might be shorter than a 9/390 but will be used on London to Birmingham such that provision is made to make them slightly more ‘commuterised’ (wider doors, faster acceleration).

 

[krus_aragon]

But unless you do some very funky diagramming then you're probably going to end up with a lot more 5-car running on the WCML proper as I'm not sure ten sets will be sufficient to run around doubled up after you factor in all the extra services into and around Wales!

The ten (electric) sets are the ones that I was guessing would be full-length, so wouldn't be doubled up. Though on reflection, thirteen bi-mode units (less a few on maintenance) wouldn't stretch very far when doubled up: five doubled-up diagrams would barely cover the Chester services...

For comparison, in 2012 Virgin's plan was to replace the Voyagers with 21 6-car EMUs (to be hauled off the wires), whereas First planned to add 11 6-car EMUs for the Birmingham-Scotland route, and keep the existing Voyagers. Comparing this announcement with First's previous plan, the 20 Voyagers kept on in the old plan are replaced with 13 bi-modes, which would imply that the bi-modes will be significantly longer. But Virgin's old plan, a like-for-like replacement with 6-car units was seen as sufficient.

(There's actually very little in Wales that will be *new* services, and most of them are on weekends. A lot could be extending existing diagrams a bit. The later Euston train on weekdays could be the low-hanging fruit of extending the current last train beyond Birmingham.)

 

[paulravuslante]

Hopefully this means some decent Italian cuisine in First Class

Hope you aren’t expecting wood fired oven pizzas

 

[PR1Berske]

The RMT has condemned the decision as a "political stitch up."

Source:
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-slams-west-coast14819/

14 August 2019

RMT Press Office

RMT slams West Coast political fix as public ownership is ignored and First Trenitalia are shunted in to replace Virgin/Stagecoach‎ in midst of pension row

General Secretary Mick Cash said;

"The announcement this morning that First Trenitalia are being shunted on to the West Coast Mainline to replace Virgin/Stagecoach in the midst of the rail staff pension row is just anothe‎r political fix by a Government whose privatised franchise model is collapsing around their ears.

"Instead of following the popular public sector route the Tories are taking yet another gamble on the crucial West Coast lines with one of the dwindling number of private operator consortia left in the game ‎in a move that RMT believes is doomed to failure and sure to result in yet more rail chaos.

"RMT will take whatever action is required to protect out members pay, jobs, working conditions and pensions‎ on these vital inter-city routes."

 

[Ianno87]

The ten (electric) sets are the ones that I was guessing would be full-length, so wouldn't be doubled up. Though on reflection, thirteen bi-mode units (less a few on maintenance) wouldn't stretch very far when doubled up: five doubled-up diagrams would barely cover the Chester services...

For comparison, in 2012 Virgin's plan was to replace the Voyagers with 21 6-car EMUs (to be hauled off the wires), whereas First planned to add 11 6-car EMUs for the Birmingham-Scotland route, and keep the existing Voyagers. Comparing this announcement with First's previous plan, the 20 Voyagers kept on in the old plan are replaced with 13 bi-modes, which would imply that the bi-modes will be significantly longer. But Virgin's old plan, a like-for-like replacement with 6-car units was seen as sufficient.

(There's actually very little in Wales that will be *new* services, and most of them are on weekends. A lot could be extending existing diagrams a bit. The later Euston train on weekdays could be the low-hanging fruit of extending the current last train beyond Birmingham.)

My reading of the service changes are:
-New hourly Liverpool-Euston service (to make 2tph)
-Extra Motherwell stops
-Some various extensions to North Wales locations (Llandudno summer only), plus 1-2tpd to Walsall.

 

[rich.davies]

According to the map Gobowen services are an extension of the Wrexham & will go via Crewe.

Ok, i can't seem to find the map. Is it on the FirstTrentalia site?

 

[StaffsWCML]

It can't be easy. Too radical a change and nobody believes it; more of the same and nobody sees the point.

The legal challenge could turn everything on its head, you're right.

I presume the government must be fairly confident it wont or that Stagecoach have given up.

Williams has also said it is compliant with his recommendations which seems to suggest they want to make the railways even worse than they are. Maybe its a ploy to increase car sales.

Somebody was quoted they want to award contracts to 'operators who run the blooming trains on time', it seems counter intuitive that to do this they set about removing the only operators who actually run trains on time or at all and deliver yet more franchises to Abellio and First who have pretty tragic records of doing exactly that across the network.

 

[thenorthern]

What name will they use to operate has it been announced?

 

[PR1Berske]

What name will they use to operate has it been announced?

The website says "West Coast Rail".

 

[StaffsWCML]

What name will they use to operate has it been announced?

Horizon Trains

 

[d9009alycidon]

More stops being added at Motherwell is great news for the people of Lanarkshire.

Might as well advertise a stop at Motherwell, recent experience of congestion between Carstairs and Glasgow (especially Northbound), trains are usually checked around the Motherwell area anyway, however I would have thought that a Motherwell Parkway station would have been more useful for the general population of Lanarkshire

 

[dk1]

Ok, i can't seem to find the map. Is it on the FirstTrentalia site?

It was on the DfT site on Twitter. To be honest on a recent visit to Shrewsbury I chose to return to London via Crewe as it worked out quicker so would imagine Gobowen definatley will be via Chester.

 

[700007]

What name will they use to operate has it been announced?

They are waiting for a convenient time to announce this, with the final brand to be announced. Horizon Trains anyone?

 

[Ianno87]

The RMT has condemned the decision as a "political stitch up."

The RMT *always* say something like that...

 

[DarloRich]

I get that seating is subjective. To me (with spinal issues) IC70 seats are dire, the Pendo seats are fine and god forbid that they retro fit 800-style seats.

I have to agree - I've always found the Cl390 seats to be very comfortable. Hopefully they see sense!

I agree it is subjective. I find that the second class pendolino seats cut of the circulation to my lower legs. It must be a height thing but i find them the worst seats on UK trains. I don't know what IC70's are but I don't have issues with any other seat type. I also find the Pendolino seats thin and hard i na way that hte thin hard seats on the GWR trains arent!