West Coast Partnership: Awarded to First Trenitalia

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by 4-SUB 4732, 12 Aug 2019.

  1. EE Andy b1

    EE Andy b1 Member

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    FirstGroup and Trenitalia (West Coast Rail) plans.

    25,000 New seats across the Class 390 Pendolino fleet.

    As they are now...
    21 x 9 Car 390, 99 First & 370 Standard = 9849 seats
    35 x 11 Car 390, 145 First & 444 Standard = 20615 Seats

    So a total of 30,464 seats. Not including Drivers! :D

    That's a loss of 5464 seats once the 390s are refurbished. Approx 97 seats less per set.

    So is that going to be a lot more legroom (standard), which is needed. :smile: More bike space than now? Bigger shop?
     
  2. pdeaves

    pdeaves Established Member

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    "London Eastern Railway", the legal name used by National Express.
     
  3. pompeyfan

    pompeyfan Established Member

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    First have offered rail perks to bus employees and V.V since at least 2012 on their franchises.
     
  4. The Ham

    The Ham Established Member

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    There's two points, firstly it could be that First are willing to pay the extra to facilitate the use of the longer trains so as to cover the risk of the trains but being used beyond this franchise (remembering that is for a longer time, so the extra cost would be lower).

    Secondly, if they are longer units they could more easily cover for other units, allowing you to have a better fleet utilisation of the 390's as the spare could be the bimodal/new EMU's.
     
  5. Whisky Papa

    Whisky Papa Member

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    Within First specifically? Even that's more generous than in my experience: as a member of rail staff I got nothing on Arriva buses, and as First bus staff I got the offer of a £10 return every year on First Great Western - not entirely convenient from Yorkshire!
     
  6. Whisky Papa

    Whisky Papa Member

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    Thanks for that, you posted just as I was writing the post above. Much improved since my days with First, then.
     
  7. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

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    West Coast Rail is not the final name a brand name will be announced in due course
     
  8. Chuggington21

    Chuggington21 Member

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    I wonder if First will be made to give up some of the other franchise.
    They have transpennine and they will have the new First east coast. So that's a big monopoly
     
  9. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 Member

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    Their east coast franchise wont have as regular services though considering its open access
     
  10. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    Until very recently Stagecoach had a hand in the WCML, ECML and MML franchises, that is a far bigger monopoly and nobody (apart from on here) gave a hoot. Besides, the new First ECML venture is only a small open access operation.
     
  11. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    You'd argue First East Coast is chasing the London-Edinburgh market, with WCP chasing London-Glasgow really.

    Whether you count the much slower London-Birmingham-Edinburgh WCP service as 'competing' for London-Edinburgh is debatable.
     
  12. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    Surely not with it being a proper InterCity service?

    The shop going seems more likely, though I could see the 11-cars perhaps getting a First converted to a Standard as the 9-cars had.
     
  13. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    My bet is on LMS or LMSR or a variant thereof.
     
  14. matacaster

    matacaster Member

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    Does the trenitalia rail pass entitle one to travel on wcml
     
  15. StaffsWCML

    StaffsWCML Member

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    I think its more the case on the WCML if you go from the North West you can only use First from now on. First will being First almost certainly use that to drive up prices. Its very bad news for Management staff at Virgin as First already have their team of 'top. dogs' The real issue is if they are useless, like they are on most their current routes.
     
  16. EE Andy b1

    EE Andy b1 Member

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    I'm not a betting man but...

    My bet is on LMS operated by First/Trenitalia.
     
  17. TheBigD

    TheBigD Member

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    Pure speculation on my part...

    Current standard seating capacity is 23310 from your figures above. Add removing the shop and adding an extra 30sigh seats per set gives you the 25000 figure.
     
  18. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    Hmm, in much the same vein as LNER; someone seems to be a fan of the Big Four! :lol:
     
  19. pompeyfan

    pompeyfan Established Member

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    48 x £6pp day rovers for employee or spouse and can carry 3 other people (at £6pp again), or £10 for a GWR and SWR day rover. (Hull and TPE maybe slightly more, can’t remember exactly)

    A large amount of £6 weekly scratch card bus tickets.

    All of the above are available to all first group employees.
     
  20. LM93

    LM93 Member

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    Crimson Lake or Black and Silver? That is the question ;)
     
  21. EastCoastway

    EastCoastway Member

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    And then there's the five boxes if you work for a first group toc that you can use on any first toc.
     
  22. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 Member

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    Could argue that since virgin unlike EMT wasnt a stagecoach brand so its less obvious as it ran under a different name. Stagecoach didnt have a third company up north so it wasnt a big issue back then and Virgin East cost didnt last long

    unlike First new west coast monopoly which could last years to come
     
  23. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

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    The brand name is very likely to be London Midland Scottish Railway as the DfT already own the trademarks to that name.
     
  24. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 Member

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    Didnt london midland base their name from that?
     
  25. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    You can argue that, I say it makes no difference. Starting to claim there is a monopoly becomes far more important when you consider where the revenue is going, not what the brand is on the train. Therefore Stagecoach having a stake in three franchises operating north out of London was a far greater concern than this.
     
  26. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 Member

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    EMT never runs even close to scotland so its different situation
     
  27. Jorge Da Silva

    Jorge Da Silva Established Member

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    Yes but the DfT seems to be planning LMS this time and owns the trademarks to the name. It is also very appropriate for the franchise
     
  28. transmanche

    transmanche Established Member

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    Well, the DfT did register 'LMS' and 'London Midland & Scottish' as trademarks in late 2017...
     
  29. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    It's not different at all. The West Coast and East Coast franchises were both joint ventures with Stagecoach. I'll repeat again, Stagecoach were involved with three competing franchises at the same time.

    If there was a worry about monopolies, it was then.
     
  30. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 Member

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    I dont disagree, Wonder how they will word it though cause its not like they can say london midland scottish railway in the announcements is it or london midland
     

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